28 Replies Latest reply on Jan 24, 2008 5:38 PM by (wallacewhite)

    Timeline Markers when Rippling

      After setting Encore DVD Markers in the Premiere timeline, Ripple editing or deleting clips early in the timeline causes later markers to be out of place.
      Is there any way to make markers "ripple" also?
        • 1. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
          Use clip markers to temporarily denote chapter points that are linked to a frame of media rather than to a point of time in a sequence. Then when you are finished editing and ready to export, add your Encore DVD chapter markers.

          If you would like the option to tell Premiere Pro to link Encore DVD chapter markers to a frame of media rather than a point of time in a sequence, please file a Feature Request
          • 2. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
            Level 1
            Using clip markers for placing subsequent timeline markers is not really an option as there is no navigation from one clip marker to the next if the second clip marker is in a clip which may be several places further along the timeline.
            There seems to be some muddled thinking in the design of this feature of the program.
            Surely the idea of DVD markers is to mark a particular frame in the production for subsequent recall, and if this is so, then the marker should be considered not as a timeline marker, but as a clip marker anchored to that particular frame of video.
            As Adobe make such a big thing about streamlining and speeding up the production process, I would expect to be able to set DVD markers as the editing progresses rather than having to set them at the end of all editing. I realise that rippling the DVD markers in the timeline may not be appropriate in all cases, e.g. when attached to a frame in a locked track, but I would expect the option to be available. This seems to work well in much less expensive programs e.g. Serif MoviePlus, so why not in Premiere.
            I see little value in placing DVD Markers in Premiere timeline if no further editing can take place without subsequent markers being out of sync. They may as well be applied after taking the finished project into Encore.
            • 3. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
              >Surely the idea of DVD markers is to mark a particular frame in the production for subsequent recall, and if this is so, then the marker should be considered not as a timeline marker, but as a clip marker anchored to that particular frame of video.

              I disagree. I want to mark a particular frame for recall by the audience only when I'm done editing. Marking frames for my recall while editing is accomplished by clip markers and marking time points is accomplished by sequence markers.

              However, that doesn't mean that the functionality of DVD markers can't be improved to accommodate the workflow you desire. Did you file that feature request?
              • 4. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                Jim_Simon Level 8
                I think Ken is right on the money with this one. Changing how markers work would not prevent anyone from adding markers at the end, but the current implementation makes it difficult for us to place usable markers as we go.
                • 5. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                  >Changing how markers work would not prevent anyone from adding markers at the end

                  Agreed, which is why I encouraged him to submit the FR. And also why I have encouraged others to do the same thing in different threads.

                  Just because *I* wouldn't use it doesn't mean it's not a good idea or shouldn't be implemented. :)

                  Until then, however, ideas about how to use currently existing features can go a long way towards making a smoother, happier editing experience.
                  • 6. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                    Level 1
                    I have filed a feature request.
                    I still think that clip markers are not much use for navigating along the time line when there are multiple clips and any timeline markers have been misplaced by further editing.
                    • 7. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                      I agree with Ken - IMO chapter marks should be tied to a frame of media not a point in time. I sure hope Adobe implements your feature request.
                      • 8. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                        Level 1
                        I feel markers should apply to both a moment in time and a frame.
                        • 9. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          That's why there should be different kinds of markers. Clip markers go in the clip. Sequence markers get attached to a point in time. Chapter markers get attached to a frame of video, carry through to nested sequences, move with the clip, and provide a warning if you're about to delete or cover with a transition the frame they're attached to.
                          • 10. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                            @ Ken:

                            >I still think that clip markers are not much use for navigating along the time line when there are multiple clips and any timeline markers have been misplaced by further editing.

                            Clip markers are primarily designed to navigate within a clip while editing. Sequence markers are primarily designed to navigate along a timeline while editing. Chapter markers are primarily designed to let the audience navigate through a finished program.

                            That you can use clip markers as frame references to be used later on when you add your chapter markers is a bonus.

                            Your focus should not be on the shortcomings of clip markers when you try to do something that they weren't designed for - your focus should stay on the shortcomings of Encore Chapter Markers not performing the way some editors would logically expect them to perform.

                            @Gene:

                            Hoping is poor substitute for action. You need to file a Feature Request as well. There is strength in numbers, and Adobe pays attention to that kind of strength.

                            -Jeff
                            • 11. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                              Level 1
                              I can just about accept that I must place chapter markers at the conclusion of the edit, although I think it is not a particularly "streamlined" way of doing things, but your description of the use of sequence markers goes to the very nub of my argument about muddled thinking.
                              The sequence markers that are placed during the edit are placed to navigate back quickly to a particular point in the sequence, but these also become "cast adrift" if any shortening of the sequence takes place due to editing as they, also, do not "ripple".
                              • 12. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                >The sequence markers that are placed during the edit are placed to navigate back quickly to a particular point in the sequence

                                The way you are describing "a particular point in the sequence" seems to me to be, instead, a particular point in a clip. Namely, you want sequence markers tied to a frame of video rather than a point in sequence time. Is that a correct interpretation?

                                If so, then what should be used to mark important points in sequence time? Like audio cues, where a collaborator's animation begins/ends and where broadcast commercial breaks occur?
                                • 13. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                  It seems their's plenty of call for both kinds of sequence markers - those that are static, and those that are dynamic, shifting with edits.
                                  • 14. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                    Eddie Lotter Level 4

                                    There are. "Static" = sequence markers, "dynamic" = clip markers.

                                    Consider for a moment, if you have five clips on five tracks with a sequence marker over all of them. You ripple delete the clip on track 3 and you want the sequence marker to move left. But now the marker is not marking the same place in the other four tracks. :o

                                    Cheers
                                    Eddie


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                                    • 15. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                      In that case, you would use a static sequence marker.
                                      • 16. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                        Level 1
                                        I agree with Jim.
                                        This whole discussion goes to confirm what I said in my previous post; that we should be given the option to make timeline markers static or dynamic.
                                        • 17. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                          Eddie Lotter Level 4

                                          My point is that you already have it. Use clip markers for "dynamic" markers.

                                          Cheers
                                          Eddie


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                                          • 18. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                            Not the same, Eddie. Clip markers don't show up as Chapters in Encore, nor do they show up through nesting.
                                            • 19. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                              Level 1
                                              It occurs to me that all our bases might be covered with the addition to the Markers menu of a facility to "Go To" the next CLIP marker in the SEQUENCE. These being dynamic would not get "out of sync" when editing and could then be quickly navigated to for setting final DVD markers whilst still retaining the present functionality of existing markers.
                                              • 20. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                                Eddie Lotter Level 4

                                                Yes indeed there needs to be navigation to clip markers. It would also be useful to convert markers from one type to another with the choice of entire sequence or only work area.

                                                Jim, sequence markers don't remain sequence markers when nesting so I'm not sure what point you're making in that regard.

                                                Cheers
                                                Eddie


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                                                • 21. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                  The point I'm making is that Premiere currently does not have any implementation of markers that Ken, myself and I'm sure others would find very useful. And that is to tie a Chapter marker, similar to a Sequence marker, to a specific frame of video, to have that Chapter marker show up every place that frame shows up, to move with that frame if it moves, and to show up in Encore as a Chapter point (whether or not we've named it in Premiere).
                                                  • 22. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                                    Eddie Lotter Level 4

                                                    You know where to make a feature request. ;)

                                                    Cheers
                                                    Eddie


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                                                    • 23. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                      I'll bet a dollar that Jim has already filed a FR, and that his contribution to the discussion here is intended to convince other folks to do the same.

                                                      It makes a lot of sense to have Encore Chapter markers behave as Jim and Ken have described.

                                                      My "counterpoints" are intended for people who have to edit now and need some sort of at-least-partly-workable solution now.
                                                      • 24. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                        Jeff is correct, on all counts.
                                                        • 25. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                                          Eddie Lotter Level 4

                                                          My comments are always to spur people to action. It's pointless just complaining. :)

                                                          Cheers
                                                          Eddie


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                                                          • 26. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                            I just want to complain. Pointlessly.

                                                            There. I feel better now. Thanks. :)
                                                            • 28. Re: Timeline Markers when Rippling
                                                              I just found this thread. It looks like Premiere 6 had an option for "Block Move Markers," described below. I can find no such option in Premiere Pro... is it possibly buried somewhere?

                                                              Thanks,
                                                              Wallace

                                                              Basic Editing concepts and tools

                                                              Block Move Markers Leave this option selected to enable markers in the Timeline to move when you use the Multitrack Select tool or when you execute a ripple edit with Shift Material in All Unlocked Tracks selected. If you deselect this option, Timeline markers remain in place.