15 Replies Latest reply on Aug 26, 2007 3:29 PM by (bchil)

    Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip

    Level 1
      This has probably already been answered, but I couldn;t find a reference to it... When setting keyframes, I hit PgDn to advance to end of my clip and it stops showing the clip at that point... Yet that is the end of the clip, so I want to change the motion path to show that frame, etc...

      I have been going one frame back to see where I am, etc - but it's tough when you are trying to zoom/fade by using opacity/motion handles...

      Is there a way to both view the video AND set the keyframe at the END of clip w.o this hoky workaround??? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

      -BChil
        • 1. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
          Steven L. Gotz Level 5
          The actual last frame is not at the end, because that is the first frame of the next clip. The last clip is one frame before.

          What is needed is a version of Page Down that gets you to the last frame. In the meantome, backing up one frame is not a workaround, it is the expected procedure.
          • 2. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
            Curt Wrigley Level 4
            Its Very annoying. NO matter how much sense this seems to make to adobe, it is a real pain to deal with. The end of the clip should show the last frame.

            Curt
            • 3. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
              I think the conflict comes because in an NLE, you want the CTI parked at the end of the last frame so that any clips inserted or overlaid at the CTI do not obliterate the last frame of the preceding clip.

              FX programs like AE need to have the CTI parked at the beginning of the last frame so that keyframes can be set and the results of applied effects can be seen.

              So what to do? Should the CTI park at the end of the last frame or the beginning of the last frame?

              Absent Steven's suggestion that there be a PageDown modifier (or an operational change based on type of workspace selected), then I think you park the CTI at the end of the last frame in Premiere. If you're doing so many effects that moving one frame back in the ECW is an annoyance or hindrance, then you should probably be doing the bulk of your effects work in AE.
              • 4. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                To be honest. I often put the CTI in the middle of the clip, set the value, then drag the keyframe to the end of the clip.

                Or, If I have multiple effects with keyframes, I set the first effect's last keyframe the hard way, then just move the the last keyframe in the first effect to set all the rest.
                • 5. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                  Level 1
                  OK. I'm not sure why I didn't know that. I thought that if you back up the frame it would create a "glitch" (i.e. one frame of black before the next clip etc... OK - makes sense now, and it's not that big of a deal to press back once I suppose... Like Steven I have been known to put the CTI in the middle, do my thing and then drag it to the end...

                  -BChil
                  • 6. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                    >If I have multiple effects with keyframes, I set the first effect's last keyframe the hard way, then just move the the last keyframe in the first effect to set all the rest.

                    I've used that trick myself a few times. ;)
                    • 7. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                      Curt Wrigley Level 4
                      You see; we all do work arounds because by default you cant see the last frame in the effects panel when setting the last keyframe. We drag the keyframe elsewhere, guess how to set it (cause you cant see the frame you want) then slide it back to the end. It seems silly to me. The adobe argument about parking the cti makes perfect sense to them, but not to me. Where the heck is it parked? Its not on the last frame of the trailing clip or the first frame of the next clip. It shows a black hole in nether space somewhere. Certainly it can be parked at the end of the frame for editing purposes but display the frame too! Why display nothingness?

                      Curt
                      • 8. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                        You would have to display nothingness somewhere; if the CTI looks forward, then when it's parked at the end of the last frame you see nothing (or the first frame of the next clip).

                        But if it looks backward, then when it's parked at the beginning of the clip's first frame, you would again see nothing (or the last frame of the previous clip).

                        If you look at AE, The CTI can never get to the end of the last frame unless you manually move it there; it always stops at the beginning of the last frame. In AE, a 5-second NTSC clip has timecode from 00;00;00;00 to 00;00;04;29, with 4;29 marking the beginning of the last frame. Hitting the "End" key parks the CTI there, at 4;29.

                        In PPro that same 5-second clip is listed in the Info panel as having a start of 00;00;00;00 and an end of 00;00;04;29, just like AE. But if you hit the PageDown key, the CTI parks at the end of the last frame, at 00;00;05;00.

                        IMHO, the "solution" is to leave the CTI looking forward like it does in both AE and PPro, and then have a mechanism in place so that the CTI would respond to commands either like an NLE or like an FX program. The mechanism gets turned on or off by some user action, or automatically based some preset conditions.

                        Should we discuss alternate solutions to solve this issue while retaining PPro's NLE-ness?

                        How about if we discuss what user actions and what preset conditions should trigger AE CTI behavior and what actions and conditions should trigger NLE CTI behavior?
                        • 9. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                          Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                          I usually want to go to the end when I PgDn. However, if I had a button in the Effect Control panel I would use that I suppose. Or if I PgDn with the focus on the ECW, that would be fine if it did the right thing.

                          I would be happy to be able to set the option to use any keystroke I wanted if Adobe would just make it possible. Or, give me a Modifier key.
                          • 10. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                            I like it the way it works now.
                            • 11. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                              Curt Wrigley Level 4
                              I dont understand why the cti cant park on the end of the frame but still display the frame.

                              And while we are at it, can the keyframes on the last frame in the effects control panel be fully visable? Its like they are slipping in to the black nothingness where the cti chills. Its hard to pull them out of there sometimes.

                              Steven; the keystroke I use is Pg Dn then left arrow. But then after i set it, i gotta drag it right one frame. UG

                              Curt
                              • 12. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                >the keystroke I use is Pg Dn then left arrow. But then after i set it, i gotta drag it right one frame.

                                Curt,

                                I don't think you want to drag it right one frame. That leaves the last visible frame with an interpolated value instead of the end value that you set. I think you want to PgDwn>Left Arrow and then set the keyframe's value and leave the keyframe at the CTI.

                                For example, if you keyframe the Levels effect from 0 to 128 and then back to zero over the last 2 seconds of a clip, with the last keyframe (set to zero) "dragged to the right" as you say, then the last visible frame of the clip as you step through has a levels value of 3. Not 0 as you would expect.

                                If you PgDwn then left arrow, then add a keyframe and set it to zero and leave it at the CTI, the last visible frame gets a value of 0, as you would expect.

                                This is the case in the exported file as well.
                                • 13. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                                  Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                  Jeff; I suppose you are right. Its a crazy design though; IMHO. I put in a FR every round about it.

                                  Curt
                                  • 14. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                    I agree that it is a confusing design, and at least from where I sit, an intuitive solution shouldn't be that hard to implement. But I don't write code for a living, so what do I know? :)

                                    Steven's suggestions of a dedicated shortcut key, or a modifier for PageDown/PageUp, or changing the behavior of the CTI when the ECP has focus (I especially like that one!) are all good ideas.

                                    I think I'll file a FR today. ;)

                                    EDIT: I file a feature request to allow keyframes to snap to the CTI (just like AE) every round, but so far, no joy.
                                    • 15. Re: Keyframing help - the LAST frame in a clip
                                      Level 1
                                      One more question about this...

                                      I when you use PgDn to advance to the next cut and it rests and 2 clips with a 30-frame transition, for example, you can move the last keyframe PAST the transition point ans all the way to the right. Does this affect the look at of the fade, etc? Or is it completely safe to go ahead and move the keyframe all the way to the right and PAST where the actual cut is between the clips?

                                      -BChil