19 Replies Latest reply on Jan 29, 2009 7:11 AM by lymphor

    No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)

    lymphor
      Hello everybody,
      I've got a HDV 720p 25fps Premiere project and the audio is out of sync.
      I've searched this forum for answers but found no similar case.
      Does anybody know a solution?

      Thanks,
      Alessandro
        • 1. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          Yes, supply details...
          • 2. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
            lymphor Level 1
            Sorry for the late reply,
            I use Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 version 3.2.0 (347) fully updated from the internet.
            The footage it's been shot with JVC GY-HD 100 camera.
            The sound comes about 1 second BEFORE the image.
            In the same project I have footage converted from DVCAM and this one has no problem.
            Only original HDV 720p 25fps footage has audio sync problem.
            Hope this info it's enought, thx :)
            • 3. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
              Harm Millaard Level 7
              How was it captured, what are the project settings, how was it played back to establish the delay, how was DVCAM converted, why, on what OS, and the list can go on.

              If you ask a question...
              • 4. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                lymphor Level 1
                The footage it's been shot on MiniDV tapes and lately captured using JVC BR-HD50 deck and Premiere Pro CS3 (with no updates at the time) on Windows XP SP1 (now updated to SP2). Since the deck model was not on Premiere's list, I selected generic JVC deck.
                Project settings here:
                http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2594/jan16213001cl0.jpg
                http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2918/jan16213508tn4.jpg
                http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5346/jan16213002gy9.jpg
                http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2186/jan16213003qx9.jpg
                http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3654/jan16213004vl0.jpg
                For the conversion of DVCAM 25fps 16:9 footage (shot with Sony DSR500 on MiniDv tapes and lately captured using a Sony deck and Premiere Pro CS3 with no updates and Windows XP SP1): I used Dan Isaacs sd2hd script function for AviSynth with software VirtualDub 1.8.6 and AviSynth 2.5.7.
                I converted DVCAM footage because original project and footage was HDV 720p.
                About the PC configuration: Intel Core 2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHZ, 2GB DDR2 Kingston, Seagate HDD SATA 7200rpm, ASUS PK5C motherboard, EVGA Nvidia Geforce 8800GT 512MB.
                I noticed the audio delay when I played the project in the timeline (after a render, of course). I also rendered an external Microsoft DV AVI file (PAL 25fps) and had the same problem.
                Hope this info is enough, if not please let me know.
                • 5. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                  Not a huge fan of HDV but I thought Premiere's support of the format was centered around Sony and Canon's 1080i flavor, with JVC users left out in the cold.

                  Not so?
                  • 6. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                    lymphor Level 1
                    Do you mean there's no solution to my problem?
                    • 7. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                      Buy a Panasonic. That usually solves all HDV issues.
                      • 8. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                        lymphor Level 1
                        Thank you, I'll take this in consideration next time.
                        But what can I do right now?
                        I thought mr. Millaard said he has a solution?
                        • 9. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                          Harm Millaard Level 7
                          > I thought mr. Millaard said he has a solution?

                          No, I asked for details. Some of the required details are still missing, but at least upgrade XP to SP3. Do you use on-board audio? Do you have the same synch problem when using the DVCAM material in a standard DV project? Do you have only 1 disk? How much do you have free on it? How is your page file set up? Maybe have a look at the info required for solving nasty problem as shown in the very bold link at the top of the forums: How to post a question...
                          • 10. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                            lymphor Level 1
                            All info in this zip file:
                            http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/a6f12fbe-46a3-4bee-8f85-1ebc6314b1c9/?action=forceDL
                            If the link doesn't work please go here an click to download:
                            http://www.esnips.com/doc/a6f12fbe-46a3-4bee-8f85-1ebc6314b1c9/AudioSync720p

                            I upgraded to SP3 :)

                            > Do you use on-board audio?

                            Yes, Audio Adapter: Realtek ALC883 @ Intel 82801IB ICH9 - High Definition Audio Controller

                            > Do you have the same synch problem when using the DVCAM material in a standard DV project?

                            I don't need to use DVCAM material in a standard DV project, and I have no problems with the converted DVCAM material.
                            I only have problems with the original HDV material.

                            > Do you have only 1 disk?

                            Yes.

                            > How much do you have free on it?

                            Partitions are:
                            C (with Windows, Adobe and all soft): (NTFS) 33667 MB (5432 MB free)
                            D (with Adobe projects and captured material): (NTFS) 204805 MB (7269 MB free)
                            Total Size 232.9 GB (12.4 GB free)

                            > How is your page file set up?

                            I don't know what it is, if you don't find this info in the zip file (the Everest Report) please let me know how to find out.

                            I also tried to export using Quick Time (details in the zip file) but the problem remains.
                            By the way: the project is 3h and 13min long, although the final product is shorter. The reason is that I left some excluded takes in the timeline, just to have them there.

                            Thanks for all support, if other info is needed please let me know :)
                            • 11. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                              Harm Millaard Level 7
                              Couple of obvious shortcomings.

                              1. A single disk and partitioned to make it worse. Remove the partition, add 2 internal harddisks, one for media and one for projects/scratch/export.

                              2. You have the whole bloated Nero software installed.

                              3. You have Canopus/Procoder/Palm software installed. Why?

                              4. Your video driver is about 1 year old.

                              5. You have Netbios enabled. Do you need that?

                              6. Your 12 V rail is pretty low. Is your PS OK?

                              7. You have a lot of crap running during editing. If you look below, you can see what to turn off. Everything with a red arrow.

                              It may be time to completely reinstall everything, because I suspect your system is somewhat dirty and possibly corrupted.

                              At least kill these processes and see if that improves/solves the issue.

                              • 12. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                                lymphor Level 1
                                > 1. A single disk and partitioned to make it worse. Remove the partition, add 2 internal harddisks, one for media and one for projects/scratch/export.

                                Sadly I don't think I will be able to add 2 other HDDs very soon.
                                But I have an external USB HDD 7200rpm (WD Elements WDE1MS2500), do you think I could make any use of it?

                                > 2. You have the whole bloated Nero software installed.

                                I'll uninstall it, didn't know it interferes with Premiere.

                                > 3. You have Canopus/Procoder/Palm software installed. Why?

                                I used it to convert the DVCAM material, but the result wasn't good so I switched to Dan Isaacs solution.

                                > 4. Your video driver is about 1 year old.

                                A few month ago I had some problems with the newest driver, but I'll check if there's a new version online.

                                > 5. You have Netbios enabled. Do you need that?

                                I don't even know what it is :)

                                > 6. Your 12 V rail is pretty low. Is your PS OK?

                                I guess you're talking about motherboard problems?
                                I don't know what is PS or 12 V rail, I'm not very good at hardware, but if you say so maybe I should go to my PC vendor?
                                My PC is still in warranty :)

                                > 7. You have a lot of crap running during editing. If you look below, you can see what to turn off. Everything with a red arrow.

                                Thank you very much, I turned off everything except Avast (the antivirus) because the access is denied, and I noticed the delay reduced a little.

                                > It may be time to completely reinstall everything, because I suspect your system is somewhat dirty and possibly corrupted.

                                Thank you, I'll do it and I'll renounce to Nero and Avast.
                                • 13. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7
                                  If you attach the USB drive and use it only for media and make sure you only use USB connections that are absolutely necessary, you may see further improvements. Remember that all USB devices share the bandwidth, so the more devices, the slower the disk.

                                  Nero is so bloated and it keeps a number of processes resident, stealing CPU cycles from PP, that it slows down your system and is another application accessing the single disk you currently have. The result is that there are a number of programs all fighting for disk access, thus slowing down disk access for PP.

                                  PS= power supply. By 12V rail I mean the output of the power supply on the 12 volt connection is low. Normally it should be between 11.9 and 12.2 volts. In your case it is 11.3 volts. That was the reason I made the remark. This could be caused by the fact that all power supplies deteriorate in time due to capacitor aging, but that seems unlikely since the PC is still under warranty. So it may be that it is a mediocre type instead of a good one or the nVidia card may be a bit much for the capacity of the PS. The 8800 is rather power hungry.
                                  On the other hand all the other outputs are OK.
                                  • 14. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                                    lymphor Level 1
                                    Thank you for all you explanations, I'll try to contact my PC vendor about the PS.
                                    Here are some info about my reinstalled system:
                                    http://www.esnips.com/doc/08356e99-d4a7-473e-b7c6-8d2604340108/AudioSync720p-2
                                    I couldn't delete the 3 AVG antivirus processes.
                                    Right now the audio delay is minimum, but I didn't remove the partition yet.
                                    I also deleted Media Cache directory, and re-rendered/indexed/conformed everything (gaining 14GB of free hard drive).
                                    In the conforming process I noticed a lot of messages like this one in the event tab:
                                    File.mpeg: Timecode inconsistency in MPEG stream detected around frame 324. Audio may be out of synch by 2345 frames.

                                    Also got a bonus message for one file:
                                    Events messages: File.mpeg: Error in MPEG stream detected around frame 4. Deleting 3 extra frames.

                                    Do you think this might be the source of the problem?
                                    Thank you again for your explanations and your time :)
                                    • 15. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                                      You cleaned up nicely! As you noticed response times are much quicker. AVG may still be a minor bottleneck, you could try to disable the program and then kill the process. WMI is no problem, that stops automatically after a short time after a reboot.

                                      You could try to recapture (possibly use HDVSplit for that since it carries far less overhead than PP and allows for scene detection) now that your system is much more responsive. Maybe it was an accumulation of factors that caused the problems, so try recapturing a couple of clips. My guess is that is will help.
                                      • 16. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                                        Fighting Sticks Level 2
                                        Lymphor,
                                        Did all that help? REcapture, sure - got the time. Did you try some post production audio work? Maybe try unlinking the audio from the video, sliding it back that second that it's out and then relinking it? Does that resynch it for ya?
                                        • 17. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                                          lymphor Level 1
                                          Thank you Mr. Millaard!
                                          I already disabled AVG, but those processes keep reappearing after I kill them.
                                          Sadly I can't recapture because I already did the edit.
                                          But I'm going to do as Mr. Wirth suggested. Thank you also for your help :)
                                          The problem now is that the converted DVCAM material is still offline. I tried to open it in VirtualDub 1.8.8 and I got this message:
                                          http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1821/lagsis7.jpg
                                          Obviously I'm missing a codec, but where can I find this "LAGS" codec?
                                          Thank you all again :)
                                          • 18. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                            Lagarith Lossless Video Codec

                                            I highly recommend it. It's great for intermediate exports, for example going from Premiere to Squeeze. Or Pr to VirtualDub. :)
                                            • 19. Re: No audio sync? (HDV 720p 25fps project)
                                              lymphor Level 1
                                              You're right!
                                              Thank you very much, I forgot about that, my fault.
                                              Now it works :)
                                              Thank you all for your help, you'll all be credited (if it's ok with you) ;)