29 Replies Latest reply on Mar 31, 2010 9:14 PM by able123

    Automatic chapters

    Deaner777 Level 1
      I am converting a long video from VHS to DVD. Instead of taking the time to place chapters in the logical places, (yes, I'm being lazy on this project)can I have PP3 or Oncore place chapters every X minutes? If so, how?


        • 1. Re: Automatic chapters
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          Consult the manual or help file. It is all spelled out for you, or are you too lazy for that too?
          • 2. Re: Automatic chapters
            Jim_Simon Level 8
            I don't think Premiere can do it. The Encore forum has answers regarding the use of that program.
            • 3. Re: Automatic chapters
              Deaner777 Level 1



              wow, you took the time to write a snide remark, but didn't take the time to actually answer the question? What's the point in that? Thanks for helping big man!

              • 4. Re: Automatic chapters
                the_wine_snob Level 9



                I am a firm believer in editing in PrPro, treating my Sequences as "chapters." Yes, it does take a bit more work, and also some planning, BUT, when one goes to Encore to author, things are oh, so very easy. I just Export from PrPro as DV-AVI's, actually as elemental/elementary streams, i.e. a DV-AVI Video-only file, and, in my case, an AC3 (DD 5.1 SS w/ the SurCode DD 5.1 SS encoder) Audio-only file. In Encore, I Import my DV-AVI as a Timeline (one for each Sequence), and the AC3 as an Asset. From Encore's Project Panel, I drag the Audio-only file to the appropriate Timeline, where they snap into place.


                I can then do all sorts of navigational tricks with Playlists and those separate Timelines.


                Now, PrPro's little brother, PrElements, DOES allow one to automatically place Chapter Markers at increments, but its authoring capabilities are very limited. Still, some find this fast, dirty and automatic function to be useful. I do not, as I want complete control over where my Chapter Markers are placed. In my case, they are basically at the beginning of each Sequence's Timeline. There are no real Chapter Markers, per se, but the Timelines function exactly the same way, and give me the exacting control that I need and want. I'd never let any authoring app. automatically set Chapter Markers for me, but then I am a control freak. Also, I cannot imagine how Chapters established by some Frame count, or time sequence would be useful to me. Maybe I just do different types of Projects, and am missing a very good use.


                I know that this does not directly address your question, but hope that it gives you a possible workflow, that you might find more useful.


                Good luck,



                • 5. Re: Automatic chapters
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  In Encore: Time line/Add Charpter Marks at Intervals.


                  Disappointing you were too lazy to figure that simple thing out.

                  • 6. Re: Automatic chapters
                    Deaner777 Level 1



                    The original post was back in January if I remember. Since then...before the insightful post that you just sent...I did go and figure it out myself.


                    Thank you.  (especially for assuming I did nothing to help myself)


                    The real thing that is disappointing are posters that don't actually help but instead post snide condisending remarks to people who actually come to a forum to learn something that they don't know. Thank God there are people who care and post something useful to take up the slack for those who don't.

                    • 7. Re: Automatic chapters
                      Deaner777 Level 1



                      Wow...details! Thank you for taking the time to post your answer. I appreciate your time and expertise!



                      • 8. Re: Automatic chapters
                        the_wine_snob Level 9



                        Thanks for that. I guess that I should have either grabbed my Encore manual, Jeff Bellune's book, or just launched Encore to poke around. I have never felt the need for this, so I was unaware of that feature. I knew that it existed in PrElements, just not in Encore. Now I know!


                        Thanks for the tip,



                        • 9. Re: Automatic chapters
                          the_wine_snob Level 9



                          No problem. Harm educated me on Encore, a program that I use almost daily, but just never felt the need to do what you requested. My workflow is totally different, but it always works well for me, the way I like to edit and the Projects that I work on.


                          Just by asking, you allowed me to learn through Harm's answer. Cool


                          Good luck,



                          • 10. Re: Automatic chapters
                            Level 4



                            I read about this a little and am pretty sure what I read was that in cs3 when I make a chapter mark on the timeline it automatically goes to the nearest GOP ( group of frames ) ?  Soooooo, I'm wondering...   you said...



                            I am a firm believer in editing in PrPro, treating my Sequences as  "chapters."



                            Really ?  so you're sequences are scenes ? -- or more precisely---"groups of scenes"..... hmmmm....  I'm not sure I'm good enough to deal with having a bunch of sequences for scenes (chapters marks ) on a 1 hour long video I'm hoping to edit starting with capture tomorrow... I kinda thought I could put chapter marks where I want and even if it's during a transition I could get darn close to where I want that scene to end / start ...know what I mean?


                            Just wondering...this is something I NEVER did before...chapter marks...


                            and you want me to HURRY !!!!  hahaha...



                            • 11. Re: Automatic chapters
                              the_wine_snob Level 9



                              The GOP issue does occur, when adding Chapter Markers to the MPEG-2 file. If one is dealing with DV-AVI's and Exporting/Importing those into Encore, one can set the Chapter Marker to the Frame. Also (and this is an "I believe" thing), that if one has added the Chapter Marker, and Named them (very Important) in PrPro, then Exported/Transcoded to MPEG-2, including the Chapter Markers, for Import into Encore, the GOP structure created will "honor" those Chapter Markers. Someone, who uses Chapter Markers will have to confirm, or deny this. Remember - it is just a guess.


                              As for the editing with Sequences, it's not difficult. If one has a script (even just in their head), "scenes" should be easily defined. Unless there is some other compelling reason to do so, those would be the "chapters."


                              There have been times, where I would be working on a Sequence, only to find that I really needed to break it apart. I just create a new Sequence, then Ctrl+X (Cut) the Assets in the original Sequence, navigate to the new one, position my CTI and Target my Tracks, then Ctrl+V (Paste). Usually, I'll just go through, creating the number of Sequences, that I anticipate, and all works smoothly, but then there are times that I realize that I need maybe one more Sequence.


                              I also name my Sequences (or Rename) to match the flow of the Project in Encore, so I will have names like "01_Intro," "02_Scene_01," etc. I then Export to those names and also Rename my Buttons' Layer Sets to reflect that Sequence names. This makes linking very quick and simple. This really comes into play, if I have multiple Scene Selection Menus, as trying to figure out where "Button 1" on Menu 03 links, can be confusing - at least to me.



                              • 12. Re: Automatic chapters
                                Level 4





                                Ok, got that about the GOP...only happens on the compressed file

                                side...(mpeg) when editing that stuff...


                                with the dv avi stuff...I'm not sure I won't want something from sequence 11

                                to suddenly end up in sequence 4...I'm not that good...

                                and now I'm not experienced enough to deal with that...I was thinking I

                                would have 1 sequence ( except for maybe some special effect type

                                stuff )...and make my chapters in that sequence basically...then if I change

                                stuff later I just delete, create new one...


                                ugh...gotta practice using sequences more....  geez....


                                haha...Thanks !  this helped a lot...

                                At least I see it in my head and now I have to just wrestle with my own

                                shortcomings and previsualizations etc and figure out a better workflow.


                                Thanks for hint on "names" too...that will help on linking a lot.



                                • 13. Re: Automatic chapters
                                  Level 4


                                  Going out for more beer...but before I venture into the cats and dogs out there I put on my coat and realized...


                                  You know how you can have a 75 foot 3 over 2 block and fall, 1/2" and...if you don't braid it right , for storage, you can end up spending the rest of your life trying to untwist it and untangle it when you really NEED to use it again...?????   That's what I think you just told me...


                                  Each link of that block and fall is like a "sequence"....



                                  • 14. Re: Automatic chapters
                                    Level 4



                                    back from getting more beers...

                                    Sooo, I just re-read what you said about sequences...you make them before you edit...


                                    Another words, you know what your story is, you make the sequences ( scenes or scene groups ) and then after that you import ...right ???



                                    • 15. Re: Automatic chapters
                                      Level 4

                                      I think I get it..

                                      I've done that writing fiction...or a play or something....


                                      In my case I have a sort of timeline that I figure out and mark it out in a way that I have a basic structure for the plot subplots and all that stuff...and add notes along the timeline about what earth shaking events are happening along the way...


                                      I can do that...




                                      • 16. Re: Automatic chapters
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9



                                        I never did learn how to braid cables. I had a couple of gaffers and assistants, that did it so quickly, that I could not see their hands, but I never mastered it. Most of my lines were only for 1K lamps, so much smaller than the lines for 5K/10K. Also, the runs were not that long. I just used the "audio cable" method, loop-twist, loop-twist.


                                        Enjoy the brew and stay dry,



                                        • 17. Re: Automatic chapters
                                          Level 4

                                          Bill, it's just like a daisy chain...make a loop, pull some more of the strands ( 4 - in all cause you're including the rope you pull on - in a 3 over 2 ) and pass that thru the loop and that makes the next loop...easy...  gotta anchor the far end block on something to keep it tight...as you do it. like a giant slip knot ...


                                          anyway, do you do the sequences first and then import the stuff to those sequences ?



                                          • 18. Re: Automatic chapters
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9



                                            I will usually start with what I anticipate will be my Sequences. This might come from a shot list, from a script, or from a seat-o-the-pants feeling. As they can easily be created later, the exact count is not that important.


                                            I will usually set up my Bins, based on my Sequences. The more intricate the Project, the more likely I will be to set up all of my Bins in great detail. Then, I Import to my Bins, and begin working from there.


                                            With simple Projects, I'll just do a Bin for Captures, Stills, Video Assets, Audio Assets, Music, SFX, Titles, Timelines, etc., and just draw from there. It all depends.


                                            I have a "template" Project, replete with Bin structures and my DD 5.1 SS Master, that I will Open, and do a Save_As immediately to get started. Saves some typing and Bin creation. One of the things that I get miffed about is that one has to keep going up a level to create Bins, that are not Sub-Bins. Wish there was a toggle to either do it at the root, or with a hierarchy. Minor quibble on my part. It only takes one extra click per Bin, or a click-drag to undo the hierarchy mode.


                                            Even with planning things out, I still often find that I either need another Sequence, or need to combine two, that I originally thought would be separate.


                                            Hope that this helps,



                                            • 19. Re: Automatic chapters
                                              Level 4

                                              yeah, that helps a lot... I do that with my folders for the project on the

                                              hard drive, and those folders will also be bins when I do the project.  But

                                              I haven't started the project yet cause I'm gonna capture the tape tomorrow

                                              and don't really have a clue what that stuff is yet...just don't know for

                                              sure. was shot in Africa, so should be NTSC right?  But my folder structure

                                              is already set up for the project. I'm chomping at the bit to get into this

                                              thing and start doing a " posse chasing the outlaw" thing, with a

                                              safari....if you know what I mean, build up some tension and mix up this

                                              hand held prosumer linear footage into something that is cool for PETA and

                                              for hunters too...and the govt of Zimbabwe, etc etc.


                                              Honestly...my grandfather was a butcher in forest hills, queens, with his

                                              own shop ( building ) and 2nd generation german....and I grew up knowing

                                              what it's like when animals live in a horrible environment for the sake of

                                              slaughtering them for the supermarkets - my granddad's business got killed

                                              by the supermarkets.  So I can tell this story I think....about a safari

                                              where all ALL the meat and everything goes to the people of Zimbabwe and the

                                              park svc and all that and not be squemish about it like it's some horror

                                              story......people should get real and get a life, when it comes to half of

                                              these " issues"....   My family will to this day NOT EAT VEAL...for that

                                              reason- what animals go through to feed the supermarkets.


                                              When people get REALLY hungry , though, as Hitler proved in his

                                              concentration camps, they will eat ANYTHING.




                                              I'm german in part, but not THAT part.


                                              time for more beer


                                              • 20. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                JaysonM-Y Level 3

                                                new thread robo! new thread! lol you hijacking!

                                                • 21. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                  I'd have "jumped his sorry carcass too," but I think that Deaner got the answer. At least I hope so. If not, I'll pile on Rod too...


                                                  Actually, I was probably the one to take the thread somewhat off-topic, when I offered up an alternate workflow, but one that has worked for me in the past. Here's hoping that Jeff, or Curt, will not banish me to the Lounge, behind the dusty plastic plant, with a "dunce" hat on.



                                                  • 22. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                    Jeff Bellune Level 5

                                                    the_wine_snob wrote:


                                                    Here's hoping that Jeff, or Curt, will not banish me to the Lounge, behind the dusty plastic plant, with a "dunce" hat on.


                                                    Got a bottle of Scotch?  Islay, single malt.  Caol Ila and Laphroiag preferred.



                                                    • 23. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                      Though not a Scot's Whiskey fan, I do. I keep an entire shelf of those guys for my friends. It probably starts with Glenfiddich 15 and tops out with Mcallan 30. Along the way, I have a Laphroiag and also a Laugavulin 16 (I actually kinda' like that one with a maduro cigar in the evening). If we could keep you from traipsing about Europe and stopping into PHX, this could be yours, along with a few blended whiskeys - not that many, but most of my friends are single-malt sorts.


                                                      Does that offer keep me from being banished?????



                                                      • 24. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                        Level 4



                                                        haha...I sorta got into ranting after a few beers there...





                                                        I should have a timer on the computer...once I start drinking beers the timer goes off after 45 min. and I shut off computer...


                                                        Still thinking about the chapter thing and sequences and so on...we got flooded out again today so the film capture is now put off till tomorrow ...sheesh...am chomping at the bit...


                                                        Meantime...today, ...I will fool around with some sequences and see how that works for me..



                                                        • 25. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                          Deaner77 Level 1

                                                          I got my answer...keep the thread going...its entertaining.



                                                          • 26. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                            I got my answer...keep the thread going...its entertaining.




                                                            • 27. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                              Level 4


                                                              I don't see how I can create multiple sequences and export them all as one movie...in the case of having multiple delivery need..like DVD and broadcast...( fat chance )...I don't see a way to export the multiple sequences as one movie...


                                                              tested, played with examples in cs3, did lydia's advanced tutorial on sequences and markers...and searched a bit here and on internet...


                                                              also, is the chapter numbered markers ( not encore markers ) xml compatible with avid ??





                                                              • 28. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                                the_wine_snob Level 9



                                                                I think that I confused you there. In CS4, things have changed a bit, and if one uses ADL (Adobe Dynamic Link), then they CAN do multiple Sequences (so long as they do not have AC3 DD 6.1 SS for encoding with the SurCode plug-in). With previous versions, one would Export EACH Sequence as an Audio-only and a Video-only file. Ten Sequences, and you'd Export 10 DV-AVI's (Video-only), and 10 PCM/WAV (Audio-only) files. Note: one could mux the files, but sometimes Encore does not work perfectly with those. Same for doing a MPEG-2 to DVD-spces. Now, Encore really seems to have issues with muxed MPEG's. Also, for me, I am doing DD 5.1 SS with the SurCode plug-in, so doing elemental/elementary streams is my ideal workflow.


                                                                Sorry about not being totally clear on that.



                                                                • 29. Re: Automatic chapters
                                                                  Level 4


                                                                  haha...OK...for a while I was thinking I was missing some major setting for

                                                                  the export...

                                                                  Well, at least I played around with sequences a while today after doing that

                                                                  tutorial, and I like those clip markers for notes and sequence markers (with

                                                                  change duration to mark "areas" ( for transistions or adding text or sound

                                                                  later, etc ).  Thanks !

                                                                  Also, I can still do sequences as chapters (eg. - intro, day1-buffalo,

                                                                  day4-gazelle, etc )...and then copy paste into the sequence 1 timeline when

                                                                  done with each...so the storyboard / sequences idea you suggested still



                                                                  Thanks !  Rod