26 Replies Latest reply on Feb 3, 2009 1:27 PM by Jim_Simon

    HD quality

    Soula-55 Level 1
      Given that one will not burn BluRay disks, but just will just watch videos on the computer,
      Given that one has an HD monitor, an HD graphics card and a fast computer,
      Given that one has a HD Mini DV camcorder (1080i), and Premiere CS3 or 4,

      Can one produce a video file to be watched later on the computer, that will
      EXACTLY look like the preview on the monitor panel of Premiere?

      Thank you for taking the time to help me clarify issues........
        • 1. Re: HD quality
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          Just play it again.
          • 2. Re: HD quality
            Soula-55 Level 1
            I am still confused....
            As I come from a photographer background, where I know how to control photo cameras inside-out, I am relatively new to videos which is totally different, so please give me one more clue.....

            Can I export a file to be watched on a computer, that will look exactly like the preview on the monitor panel of Premiere?

            In other words, in order to achieve crystal clear images, do I have to produce BluRay disks and watch on TV?

            Thanks again

            PS these files will not be destined for the web, they will be watched on an HD monitor
            • 3. Re: HD quality
              Harm Millaard Level 7
              Coming from a photographer background, if you start with a JPEG, edit some and save again as JPEG, you will have a generation loss. You know that. Same with video, if you start with HDV, edit some and save again, you will have a generation loss. So, to the original question, EXACTLY the same quality is impossible if you edit. However, the preview monitor delivers mediocre quality because it is a PREVIEW monitor, not displaying the final result, which is always equal or better than the preview monitor.
              • 4. Re: HD quality
                Soula-55 Level 1
                I said better than the preview monitor, because my export is not as good.

                So then, do you mean that one using an HD Mini DV camcorder (1080i) to shoot, & Premiere to "edit" ONLY defining in-out points, CAN export a perfect file that will be viewed on an HD monitor?

                Maybe I wrongly assumed that the original shot footage was a "raw" type, that can be used over and over without loss of quality. I am confused...
                • 5. Re: HD quality
                  Harm Millaard Level 7
                  The original footage is not stored in RAW format but compressed as HDV. Similar to the distinction between RAW and JPEG. Changing in and out points requires re-encoding, thus a generation loss. Therefore it is impossible to export a perfect file if you change anything. This has nothing to do with Adobe, it is an inherent trait of editing HDV.
                  • 6. Re: HD quality
                    Soula-55 Level 1
                    Thanks Harm for bearing with me...

                    So, hypothetically, suppose I do not change anything at all, just output to a file, will I get perfect results on an HD monitor? Is this what you mean?

                    So, even if I make minor edits, and I lose some information, will I be able to actually "see" a clear and sharp image on an HD monitor?
                    If it can be done, I will eventually get it, but if the sharpest results are obtained through a BluRay on an HD TV, then I will have to see this as an intermediary step and not worry too much.

                    Thank you for taking the time to respond
                    • 7. Re: HD quality
                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                      > So, hypothetically, suppose I do not change anything at all, just output to a file, will I get perfect results on an HD monitor? Is this what you mean?

                      If you don't change anything, why output to a file when you already have the file on hard disk?

                      I would not worry too much about the generation loss. Everybody who edits, experiences that generation loss and they can live with that.
                      • 8. Re: HD quality
                        shooternz Level 6
                        Christine.

                        If you Export a Movie, and assuming you have set your project up correctly to ensure best settings are being used in the sequence. eg AVI Uncompressed and not Cinepak CODEC, you essentially get what you have in the timeline.

                        TIP: uncheck the "Recompress" box in the Video Export Settings.

                        Exporting a "Movie" is a different process to Exporting to an "encoder" such as AME where you get a generational loss due to compression

                        As a rule of thumb if you are encoding with the Media Encoder("encoding" read "compressing") high numbers in the settings mean better/best quality. eg high bitrates.

                        Encoding is a very trial and error process and takes sometime to get a handle on. TIP: once you do... make sure you create your own presets.

                        BTW - when you say HD monitor - is that an external monitor or the computer monitor?
                        • 9. Re: HD quality
                          (C._David_Young) Level 1
                          Christine,

                          I know exactly what you want, and yes it is possible.

                          I work in HDV and when you export using H.264 using VBR high quality (25 or even 30 Mbps) the resulting file will look virtually identical to the original footage. I have never been able to detect generation loss in my HDV after edits and exporting.

                          What I do for viewing my finished videos is create Blu-ray disk images with Encore. Then I mount these using Virtual CloneDrive and play them with Nero 8 on my 52" LCD. They work exactly as if I had a Blu-ray disk player, which I don't. Until Blu-ray blank disks come down in price to a buck or 2 I probably won't even bother.
                          • 10. Re: HD quality
                            Soula-55 Level 1
                            Thank you so much Craig, I will follow your tips regarding movies and encoding, I will experiment and save the best preset. It takes a while to understand the mechanism and logic of the video workflow, and a helping hand is always appreciated. By monitor I meant the computer monitor, I should have been more specific

                            Thank you also David, the truth is that I did not use H.264 as I do not have a BluRay disk player. The way I see it, we are not even sure about the future of BluRays, new technologies are just around the corner, so I will wait. Your suggestion though is fantastic, it opens new horizons, this is a million dollar tip!!!

                            Thanks again guys for sharing your knowledge and expertise.
                            • 11. Re: HD quality
                              David, would you mind elaborating on your workflow,
                              I would really like to do that......
                              thanks for your time....dave
                              • 12. Re: HD quality
                                (C._David_Young) Level 1
                                Christine, whether or not you ever have a Blu-ray player, H.264 is here to stay. Right now the Blu-ray format is just a convenient way to add menus and such to your productions. You could always reauthor your productions in the future using the same H.264 assets.
                                • 13. Re: HD quality
                                  (C._David_Young) Level 1
                                  Dave,

                                  My workflow is pretty much what I outlined above. Just create the Blu-ray or DVD image from Encore. Then you can mount these images just as if they were burned to disk, but they are actually just stored on your harddrive. The program I use for this is called Virtual CloneDrive. Nero 7 used to mount images but they dropped this capability in Nero 8. Then Nero 8 will play these as if they were being played from a DVD or Blu-ray player. For playing Blu-ray you have to buy the optional Blu-ray support for Nero.

                                  Let me know if you have any more questions.

                                  David
                                  • 14. Re: HD quality
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                    >The way I see it, we are not even sure about the future of BluRays

                                    "Blu-ray Disc is proving to be the most popular and fastest establishing platform ever in the history of the U.S. entertainment industry. This was one of the main messages presented by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) at a packed press conference on the opening day of the 2009 International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas yesterday."

                                    You can be sure.
                                    • 15. Re: HD quality
                                      Level 1
                                      David,
                                      I downloaded virtual clone, built an image in Encore,
                                      Nero 8, is now Nero 9, unfortunately the demo version doesn't support blu ray, so I'll have to wait until I buy the full version to try this Thanks again for your time.........dave
                                      • 16. Re: HD quality
                                        shooternz Level 6
                                        >"Blu-ray Disc is proving to be the most popular and fastest establishing platform ever in the history of the U.S. entertainment industry. This was one of the main messages presented by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) at a packed press conference on the opening day of the 2009 International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas yesterday."

                                        What else could they say? ;-)
                                        • 17. Re: HD quality
                                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                          >What else could they say?

                                          How about this?

                                          "Blu-ray Disc is proving to be the most popular secondary function ever on Sony's moderately successful game console, the PlayStation 3. By counting these gaming consoles as Blu-ray Disc players, we have been able to ignore the relatively dismal sales of dedicated BD players and to claim that BD is the fastest establishing platform ever in the history of the U.S. entertainment industry. We have no idea what 'fastest establishing platform' really means, but it sounds very impressive and our Public Relations people seem very happy about it." This was one of the main messages presented by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) at a packed press conference on the opening day of the 2009 International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas yesterday.
                                          • 18. Re: HD quality
                                            shooternz Level 6
                                            Thats the kind of thing. Classic PR :-)
                                            • 19. Re: HD quality
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                                              Yeah, what Jeff said.
                                              • 20. Re: HD quality
                                                (C._David_Young) Level 1
                                                Even if the physical media never takes off, what about the Blu-ray format as an electronic media? Is there anything other standard that can make menus with hi-def assets? Is H.264 viable for archiving productions or is there something better? Will we end up downloading BDs from Netflix instead of getting them in the mail (or heaven forbid driving to Blockbuster)? Or will we end up viewing feature length movies on our iPhones with earbuds? Or will Blu-rays players indeed be as ubiquitous as DVD players in a couple of years and the blanks cost 25 cents?
                                                • 21. Re: HD quality
                                                  Bill Heslip Level 1
                                                  Blu-ray is a mixed bag. This next generation, interactive delivery/RW system that reproduces stunning images and offers exciting potential, could ultimately fail as nothing more than a niche player.

                                                  If you are a small, independent producer like me, you've been priced out of the replication equation by a prohibitively expensive copy protection ransom (and that's before a single disc has been produced). Thanks, Hollywood. My up-scaled DVDs look just fine for movies, and there are many options for HD delivery other than Blu-ray.

                                                  I'm not inherently against Blu-ray, I just think they screwed the pooch.
                                                  • 22. Re: HD quality
                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                    >Or will we end up viewing feature length movies on our iPhones with earbuds?

                                                    • 23. Re: HD quality
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                      "A lot of people think of DVD as an overnight success, but actually if you look back, we have some data from CEA market research that shows three years into the launch of DVD 5.4 million players had shipped into the U.S. market. So if you are comparing DVD to Blu-ray we are actually looking at a considerably larger number of players that have shipped in only 2.5 years into the life of Blu-ray, so we are doing quite well.

                                                      Of course, the 10.7 million figure includes PlayStation 3 consoles, which is still the Blu-ray player most consumers own. With prices on stand-alone machines dropping as low as $99, however, expect the scales to tip the other way throughout 2009."
                                                      • 24. Re: HD quality
                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                        "Despite the recent success found in digital distribution, packaged media is still the powerhouse force, with DVD leading the way followed by its younger but bigger brother Blu-ray. So what is holding digital distribution back? Bandwidth. The bandwidth required to stream any type of HD video is way beyond what most households have, says In-Stat analyst Michael Paxton. The convenience factor is still not there for streaming media, unless you are watching on a laptop and it is the only option you have. The packaged media business model is one that the consumer is very comfortable with."
                                                        • 25. Re: HD quality
                                                          shooternz Level 6
                                                          I dont have one, my clients dont have them, my friends dont have them.

                                                          Not sure why we dont but we dont!

                                                          You got one Jim?
                                                          • 26. Re: HD quality
                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                            Not yet. 2009, probably. Like the article said. (Several friends already have stand alone players, though.)