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I would say you have to stick with either PAL or NTSC in the same sequence. There are evidently ways to convert from one standard to the other, but I don't know the details. I would look at Avisynth and see if there is an existing filter or technique. You may even be able to do it with hd2sd but Dan Isaacs or one of the other experts would have to tell you how.
OK, Now I re-rendered new edited versions of the project, PAL and NTSC standard sized mpegs (from a HD timeline). BOTH the PAL and NTSC have strange radical color shifts when played on WM player or the VLC player, but the color is corrected in Encore or on the monitor within Premiere. I a copy to play on a computer (probably a MAC ...using I dont know what) as a mpeg without color shifts. Any suggestions?
I got with the 'Canopus Procoder 3' the best quality NTSC/PAL conversion. Everything else I tried produced unwanted side effects.
>Is it possible to covert to NTSC in Premiere cs3
Not well. Do it outside of Premiere.
>Does the downsizing to standard affect it as well?
>>Does the downsizing to standard affect it as well?
How badly ? ...and can anything be done about this negative effect? I have been using a HD camera for 2 years, but most output is still standard.
I just talked to a technician who recommends using After Effects for conversion to NTSC
(...now I have to brush off my AF manual and get to it.)
>can anything be done about this negative effect?
The easiest thing that can be done is to just shoot in SD if you're delivering in SD. (There is currently a test proposed in the CS4 forum to determine whether or not it makes any sense to shoot in HD for SD delivery, given the added complexity. Stay tuned.)
> to determine whether or not it makes any sense to shoot in HD for SD delivery, given the added complexity
Well, added complexity or not, HD PAL -> SD NTSC will provide superior results to "normal" PAL -> NTSC conversions, as the 1080 -> 480 vertcal resizing will greatly reduce residual interlacing artifacts.
Please check this out:
This is the "basic" version of the workflow, which will convert your HD PAL -> SD PAL with "decent" quality; certainly better than anything Premiere or AE can do on its own. Since your source timeline is PAL, be sure to set the Frame Rate to 25.00 FPS in the output options (it is shown as 29.97 in my example, assuming NTSC sources).
Please go through the steps in this guide. It will give you the requisite knowledge to continue on to the "advanced" version.
[I'll make another post below this one to help guide you through the "advanced" process]
Download the following:
1.) hd2sd for AviSynth 2.5 <- unzip these files into your AviSynth/plugins folder
2.) dv2film for AviSynth 2.5 <- unzip these files into your AviSynth/plugins folder
3.) Lagarith lossless codec
HD PAL Timeline -> SD PAL .avi
Follow the steps outlined in my guide but, instead of the sample script provided there, use this script template:
1.) Open the script file in VirtualDub
2.) Choose the Lagarith codec from the Compression menu
3.) Also select "Fast Recompress" from the Compression menu.
4.) Select "Save AVI" from the File menu
5.) This will result in a 720x576 interlaced (lower field first) file with lossless compression. Import this file into whatever program you like to convert to MPEG, Quicktime, DVD, etc.
HD PAL Timeline -> NTSC PAL .avi
Repeat the steps above, saving this a lossless intermediary AVI file which you can then use to convert to whatever type of file you need.
The above 2 posts assume that you are converting a 1080i PAL timeline to interlaced PAL or interlaced NTSC. If your situation (or my reading of the original post) is different, please let me know and I can easily show you how to adjust my process to suit your needs.
Wow. Dan, as usual you have given me much food for thought. I have friends in Austria to whom I regularly send DVDs. Up to now I have always sent standard NTSC DVDs and they have a player that is flexible enough to play them. I am wondering if I should go to the trouble of converting my footage to PAL when creating DVDs for them. I mean, I am already using hd2sd to downconvert HDV and deinterlace both SD and HDV. Is it just a matter of specifying 25 fps as the output frame rate? I guess I may need to study dv60i50i to see exactly what that is capable of.
> I guess I may need to study dv60i50i to see exactly what that is capable of
You should. There is the optional "Type" parameter that can be used to achieve good results. dv60i50i(Type=4) is good for most cases, I think ... but you can also try Type=5 or 6, which use motion estimation. As always, motion estimation will work better on unedited sources rather than an edited timeline.
I also like that dv60i50i is an "autoconverter"; when your input is ~60 or 30 fps, it will output 50Hz. When then input is 50 or 25 fps, it will output 60Hz.
Yes, I have noticed how much flexibility you have built into your scripts. It is quite a learning experience. Thanks!
Thanks so much! (I am converting a 1080i PAL timeline to interlaced PAL or interlaced NTSC.)
Well, Brit, you should be all set with the information I've provided. Please let me know if you need any more assistance.
One thing: You may want to use the Type=4 option in the 50i->60i conversion. So, try this script template for NTSC instead:
I will try it this weekend (since Im back on board at our art school this week ...at the end of our NZ summer).
I have never attempted a script template...or scripts (it is a bit daunting), but Im sure Ill be able to work my way through it.
As I said, just follow the steps I've outlined and you should be fine. It's only a "template" in the sense that you need customize that path to your .AVI input file and that you add all sorts of optional parameters to tweak the output to suit your needs.
Mostly, you can just go to "follow-the-directions-and-copy-and-paste-land", which should serve you quite well here.
Hi back again. I followed the directions; downloaded and installed all programs and plug-ins (I think correctly). I am now on the stage of enabling AviSynth, which though is in the program folder, it is not an executable Windows program. I am a bit out of my depth here - rarely attempting anything outside of Windows.
However, I copied your scripts (I think correctly...?) and created a text files in WORD. Next, the directions say: Then, you run a video application, such as VirtualDub, and open the script file. I tired running script in VirtualDub...and I kept getting errors.
Here is one version:
hd2sd(OutputColorSpace="YUY2", OutputBFF=true)ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601", clamp=false)
Limiter(16, 235, 16, 240)
Any suggestions? VirtualDub says it loads only .vcf, syl, .jobs files, whatever they are, but it did seem to try to open the text file
The first thing is to make sure that your script has an .avs file extension, not .txt or .avs.txt.
If that doesn't work, then please watch my 2-part dv2film tutorial. Wherever you see the phrase "dv2film" in that tutorial, substitute "hd2sd" for your purposes.
You will have already done most of the things that part one of the tutorial outlines, but it will help you make sure you didn't miss anything.
Part two talks about the actual conversion, which should help you along most of the way to getting this done.
dv2film part one
dv2film part two
I changed the extension from .txt to .avs; and therw was not change. The same error came up with the script when loading in VirtualDub. I also tried opening a sample AviSynth script that is in the program folder and has the similar error in VirtualDub (which does not load .avs files by default).
Thanks for the suggestions. Im on dial up (at home here in the sticks) waiting for the video to load...though i may go to work to load on broadband.
I changed the extension from .txt to .avs; and there was no change. The same error came up with the script when loading in VirtualDub. I also tried opening a sample AviSynth script that is in the program folder and has the similar error in VirtualDub (which does not load .avs files by default).
Thanks for the suggestions. Im on dial up (at home here in the sticks) waiting for the video to load.
I watched the videos at work. Fantastic, it made it all far clearer to see the instructions in video form (and I liked the humour.) Now to go home and try it out.
Thanks for the good review. And you are welcome. :)
I copied and pasted the script below (that was turned into an .avs file in the Batch Scripter) into VirtualDub as suggested though I am bit confused in that at one point it was suggested that one just use VirtualDub to preview AviSynth scripts ...before encoding them in HC Encoder:
At any rate, VirtualDub came up with the error when opening the avs file with the script above:
Avisynth open failure:
AVISource autodetect: couldnt find open filec/path_to/signpost.avi
Error code: 3
(E:\Video\Signpost\Signpost.avs, line 1)
Any other suggestions? (My file is kept on the e drive in folders called Video> Signpost.)
Also, my most recent need to is to create HDV Pal as a HDV NTSC .mov file. Is there a similar script?
You need to change: c/path_to/signpost.avi with the actual path and name of your file. Something like this, for example:
You can also use relative paths, so assuming your .avs script is in the same folder as your signpost.avi file
should work also.
Thank you, it worked! Sort of.
However the product that came out the other end of the VD rendering when bringing into premiere to encode was not wide screen and narrower than SD, I think. It also seemed pixelated (the original fields were upperso perhaps these were lower?)
Could there be a typo with the script?
Also to go from HD 50i to HD 60i NTSC in order to make a HD NTSC .mov file would I simply delete the hd2sd from the script?
File>Interpret Footage will fix the widescreen issue.
Jeff is correct.
> I think. It also seemed pixelated
Please provide me a sample to look at.
> Also to go from HD 50i to HD 60i NTSC in order to make a HD NTSC .mov
If you want to make HD 60i (upper-field first), then:
Also: Be sure that field order is set to Upper when exporting interlaced HD via DebugMode FrameServer.
Your SD output will be Lower-Field First. If you'd like this to be otherwise, change your script to include OutputBFF=false
Ill try another rendering again tonight. I believe that perhaps my settings were wrong, since the avi file was produced at 4:3 screen instead of widescreen and came in with clear interlacing problems.
Make sure your Output Settings in Premiere for DebugMode FrameServer are 1920x1080 (or 1440x1080, whichever matches your project settings) @ 25 fps, upper-field first.
With all the settings correct (for me- 1440x1080, upper fields, etc.), it came out perfect in NTSC sd on DVD. Thanks!
No problem, Brit. I am wondering: How did you wind up handling the progressive animations in your source? I'm also curious if you experimented with the different "Type" parameters in my dv60i50i() function. As I mentioned to you
Type=0 simply duplicates fields (default PAL->NTSC method) or drops fields to match the target rate.
Type=1 blends the fields (default NTSC->PAL method)
Type=2 and Type=3 are "pseudo-pulldown" methods (I've honestly not experimented much with these and I don't know how useful they are)
Type=4 also blends the fields, but minimally. 2/6 of fields are blended during PAL -> NTSC, and only 1/5 of fields during NTSC -> PAL. (this is a good "compromise" for quick NTSC<->PAL conversions -- and I generally prefer it to the default).
Type=5 uses motion compensation, which can be close-to-perfect for most source footage but problematic for edited sequences.
Type=6 is just like Type=5, but "cheats" by only using MoComp on 2/6 or 1/5 of fields (much faster than Type=6 and nearly as good in most cases I've seen).
I had a chance to try type 4 and type 6 rendered from my HD timeline (with lots of effects and time ramping). Type 4 was the best; it was sharpest... though they were similar. If I have time, I will test the others as well. I found it easier and somewhat quicker to re-render the animations as NTSC animations and re-place them in their positions the new NTSC timeline.