1 2 Previous Next 41 Replies Latest reply on Mar 10, 2008 2:53 AM by (marotti)

    Canon 24F in CS3...

    Level 1
      As anyone tried using the preset from PPro 2 with CS3 with success? I'm starting soon to edit a project shot in HDV 24F with the Canon XL-H1 and I really don't want to have to load PPro 2 back on my computer. I don't have Cineform, and I don't want to have to buy it if I don't have to.
        • 1. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
          Level 1
          According to this you will have to upgrade to PPRO 2.0 or cineform.

          http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/pdfs/premiere_pro_formatguide.pdf

          KMS
          • 2. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
            Level 1
            I find it funny you mentioned upgrading to 2.0 from CS3...

            What's interesting about that chart is how it says at the top "Formats Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 supports natively are listed in red" and the Canon 24F format is listed in red. So, shouldn't PPro CS3 support it natively? Call me crazy...

            Also, that list seems old. Some of the dates for supporting formats are in '06 - they should update the chart.

            And then there's this page...

            http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/supportedformats.html

            Where if you select one of the 3rd party format support links, then select camera/VTR, and then XL-H1 (mislabeled XL-X1), it says that CS3 supports 24F with the preset update...

            I guess I'll just have to give it a test and see what happens. If I have to buy Cineform, I will - but I'd really like CS3 to work without it...

            Taking a shot here, but any of the Adobe PPro team checking these forums care to comment? Loyal user here who could really use some input...
            • 3. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
              You may want to check out the thead "WHY IS ABOBE ALWAYS LAST?". The fact one has to downgrade to get 24F compatibility is a clear reminder of the Adobe shortcomings.
              • 4. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                Level 1
                I've been following it - how could anyone who checks these forums on a regular basis not...

                And I'm not sure that Adobe is the bad guy in this one - the jury is still out on whether they will work or not...if they don't, then I'll be a little disappointed...
                • 5. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                  Level 1
                  The pdf file has been updated. It has native P2 support listed.

                  KMS
                  • 6. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                    Level 1
                    Has anybody tried creating a project with desktop editing mode and just selecting 23.97 progressive? I thought that 24f is the same as 24p.
                    • 7. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                      Level 1
                      I saw that P2 support was on there - which makes it even more odd that those old dates were left on.

                      As for 24F vs. 24P - there is a difference, as far as I know. Canon's 24F mode isn't a true progressive mode, like the 24P mode that Panasonic uses. I'm not sure about the details, but I've read that there is a difference.
                      • 8. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                        Level 1
                        I have imported 24f footage into cs3 and it imports as 29.97 fps. You can change the frame rate in the Interpret Footage, but when you change the footage to 23.976 and close the dialog box the footage shows up as 23.98 fps in the project window. Look around on the web, you can find 24f footage to try for yourself.

                        KMS
                        • 9. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                          Level 1
                          Yes... but did you set up your project as 23.97 or 29.97 before capturing? Try setting a project up in desktop editing mode with 23.97 and then try capturing 24f footage. I wonder if that would make any difference.
                          • 10. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                            Level 1
                            Did you do that with HDV footage shot with a Canon in 24F mode? And I'm assuming you didn't use the preset from PPro 2?

                            Thanks for the response and info!
                            • 11. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                              Level 1
                              I did not use the project preset for 24f, but I created a custom project in CS3 with all the same settings that the preset has...they are just presets after all.

                              "Yes... but did you set up your project as 23.97 or 29.97 before capturing? Try setting a project up in desktop editing mode with 23.97 and then try capturing 24f footage. I wonder if that would make any difference."

                              I did not capture the footage. However, when I imported the footage into PPRO 2.0, the frame rate was correct, which leads me to beleive that there is not support for 24f in PPRO CS3. I have seen other threads on other sites with some terrible workarounds for the problem (time remapping).

                              Another problem I just discovered in CS3 is that if you change the frame rate (i.e. 23.976) CS3 will round the frame rate to the nearest hundreth of a frame 23.976 = 23.98. I didn't think too much about it, but when you assign a frame rate of 23.976 to a clip in PPRO 2.0 it stays 23.976! Therefore, a person can only change a frame rate to the nearest hundreth. Lame.

                              KMS
                              • 12. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                Level 1
                                Yeah - based on your recommendation, I found some clips online shot with in Canon 24F (not with an H1, but one of the other HDV cameras) and trying to use the PPro 2 preset in CS3, it didn't work - was way out of synch.

                                That's very upsetting. I'm not sure why Adobe wouldn't update those presets for CS3. I looks like I may have to go back and load in PPro 2 to edit this project. I really hate to do that, but I'd rather not spend all the money on Cineform for one project.

                                UGGGHHH!
                                • 13. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                  Level 1
                                  By the way, what are your experiences with the Canon 24F? I noticed it is very jerky, and on a pan you get a very strong strobbing effect. I'm even wondering whether 24F is useable at all.

                                  Follow up question: Don't you think the Canon has a major problem (enven in 50i) whenever you pan? It seems to be the image on the Z1 is much more clear than on the Canon A1 when you Pan.

                                  Can you shere your experiences?
                                  • 14. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                    Level 1
                                    > Canon's 24F mode isn't a true progressive mode, like the 24P mode that
                                    > Panasonic uses. I'm not sure about the details, but I've read that there
                                    > is a difference.

                                    The sensor of the XL H1 is not progressive, but once the video is recorded
                                    to tape, it looks and acts like professive in 24f mode.

                                    Best,
                                    Christopher
                                    • 15. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                      Level 1
                                      > Yeah - based on your recommendation, I found some clips online shot with
                                      > in Canon 24F (not with an H1, but one of the other HDV cameras) and trying
                                      > to use the PPro 2 preset in CS3, it didn't work - was way out of synch.

                                      Not all Canon HDV cameras are the same wrt 24F. If you plan to purchase an
                                      XL H1, then you need to test clips from that model.

                                      Best,
                                      Christopher
                                      • 16. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                        Level 1
                                        I'm not looking at buying a camera, I'm going to be editing a project that was shot with an XL-H1 in the 24F mode. I was hoping to edit it with CS3, but after testing some footage shot with and XH G1 in 24F mode, it looks like CS3 can't handle it with the Canon preset for PPro 2.

                                        I played the clips in PPro 2, with the 24F preset, and they played fine. So unless Adobe releases another patch soon (which I hear they are) that includes updated presets, I'll be cutting this project in PPro 2. Which isn't all bad, but how will that work Dynamic Link wise (PPro 2 with AE CS3), for audio (with Audition 3 and Soundbooth), etc...

                                        Please - anyone from Adobe that happens across this thread...PLEASE UPDATE THOSE PRESETS!!!! Or at least let us know if you plan to update them - I can maybe put this project off for a litle while. Help out a loyal user here!!!!

                                        I know that may not be seen by them, but I have to take a shot.
                                        • 17. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                          Level 1
                                          > I'm not looking at buying a camera, I'm going to be editing a project that
                                          > was shot with an XL-H1 in the 24F mode. I was hoping to edit it with CS3,
                                          > but after testing some footage shot with and XH G1 in 24F mode, it looks
                                          > like CS3 can't handle it with the Canon preset for PPro 2.

                                          I have the XL H1 and generally don't edit navite HDV files becuase I first
                                          convert them to Aspect CFHD, but I just tried importing some 24F m2t files
                                          onto the PPro CS3 timeline and they played back fine. I used the settings
                                          1080p, 23.976 frames/second, HD Anamorphic 1080 (1.33), Progressive Scan.
                                          Is that not what you want? Do I have extra custom settings becuase Aspect
                                          HD is loaded on my system?

                                          Best,
                                          Christopher
                                          • 18. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                            Andy Urtu Level 1
                                            Could you make a call to Adobe Support and share with us what they tell you?
                                            • 19. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                              Level 1
                                              > I used the settings
                                              1080p, 23.976 frames/second, HD Anamorphic 1080 (1.33), Progressive Scan.<<br />
                                              I thought you could do that. That is what I was refering to when I sugestted desktop editing mode.
                                              • 20. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                Level 1
                                                > I thought you could do that. That is what I was refering to when I
                                                > sugestted desktop editing mode.

                                                Well, I didn't test anything beyond import and playback on the timeline, but
                                                it seemed to work fine in CS3. I purchased Aspect HD when the XL H1 was
                                                first released and that was the only way to edit 24F in Premiere back then,
                                                so I have not bothered with 24F HDV on the timeline, but always assumed it
                                                would work since the first patch from Adobe. Then again, maybe I'm missing
                                                something and someone can fill in the details.

                                                Best,
                                                Christopher
                                                • 21. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                  Level 1
                                                  christopherglaeser,

                                                  Does the clip show up as 23.976 in the project window or does it say that the clip is 29.97 fps?

                                                  KMS
                                                  • 22. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                    Level 1
                                                    > Does the clip show up as 23.976 in the project window or does it say that
                                                    > the clip is 29.97 fps?

                                                    23.976

                                                    Best,
                                                    Christopher
                                                    • 23. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                      Level 1
                                                      Okay - here's what I did. I created a project with a custom setting -Desktop editing mode, 1080P, 23.976 fps, etc - all that you mentioned. When I imported the clips in CS3, it read some of them as 23.976 and some as 29.97.

                                                      When I imported all the same clips in PPro 2, with the Canon 24F preset, it read them all as 23.976 and plays them fine.

                                                      So...I'm back to my staring point. Either I did something wrong (possible), or CS3 just doesn't work right with 24F Canon footage...unless of course you have Cineform...
                                                      • 24. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                        Level 1
                                                        I just did the exact same thing. Some of the clips showed up as 29.97 and some show up as 23.976 fps in CS3. The same clips all show up as 23.976 in 2.0. Sorry Eric, looks like 2.0 or cineform.

                                                        Best of luck.

                                                        KMS
                                                        • 25. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                          Level 1
                                                          Thanks...who knows, maybe Adobe will come through and provide a patch....maybe, maybe...otherwise, it's back to PPro 2....
                                                          • 26. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                            Level 1
                                                            By the way, what are your experiences with the Canon 24F? I noticed it is very jerky, and on a pan you get a very strong strobbing effect. I'm even wondering whether 24F is useable at all.

                                                            Follow up question: Don't you think the Canon has a major problem (enven in 50i) whenever you pan? It seems to be the image on the Z1 is much more clear than on the Canon A1 when you Pan.

                                                            Can you shere your experiences?
                                                            • 27. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                              Level 1
                                                              Footnote: there was a bug in the CS3 release where certain HDV files were incorrectly being imported (ie the wrong framerate was being assigned, as the pulldown was being misidentified). This has been fixed in the 3.1.0 updater, so if you don't have that installed, you'll definitely want to get it.

                                                              Cheers
                                                              • 28. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                Level 1
                                                                I have all the updates and problems with frame rates still exist...

                                                                KMS
                                                                • 29. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                  Level 1
                                                                  Yes, I have 3.1 as well, and it's still there...
                                                                  • 30. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                    Level 1
                                                                    Mobutu,

                                                                    I haven't started editing the project yet, but when I do I'll be sure and post my experiences with the footage and how it looks for you.

                                                                    Wil, thanks for the info. But I really hope that the PPro team can issue updated HDV presets. Even with 3.1, it's still not working...
                                                                    • 31. benefits of third-party codecs
                                                                      Level 1
                                                                      > Thanks...who knows, maybe Adobe will come through and provide a
                                                                      > patch....maybe, maybe...

                                                                      This is one benefit of thrid-party codecs to edit HD on PPro. Cineform
                                                                      began support for the Canon XL H1 and 24F immediately after it shipped. For
                                                                      many months, it was the only way to edit 24F in Premiere, and those who were
                                                                      using Cineform Aspect HD and Prospect HD become loyal customers. Since
                                                                      then, Adobe has released support for native editing of 24F HDV, but if any
                                                                      problems are discovered, you have no idea when it might be fixed. Could be
                                                                      weeks or months. Meanwhile, those who use CFHD continue to enjoy a stable
                                                                      codec with excellent technical support and other benefits.

                                                                      Best,
                                                                      Christopher
                                                                      • 32. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                        Level 1
                                                                        Yeah, Christopher, you make an excellent point. I guess I've not looked into Cineform only because I don't do that much HDV work (not a fan of the format), and I've got a pretty fast computer so when I've edited HDV, it's always been native in PPro.

                                                                        But with this new project, maybe it's time to look into it. I really don't mind loading PPro 2 back on the system, but it just seems that I shouldn't have to take a step backwards to edit something.
                                                                        • 33. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                          Level 1
                                                                          > it just seems that I shouldn't have to take a step backwards to edit
                                                                          > something.

                                                                          Yeah, I agree, you shouldn't have to, but I'm not surprised. I was unaware
                                                                          of the problem with CS3 and 24F HDV because I never import or edit HDV in
                                                                          PPro, and I'm guessing many Cineform users are unaware of the problem too,
                                                                          becuase it does not affect them. If a problem is discovered in CFHD, the
                                                                          reponse is immediate, so everyone can continue to get their work done.

                                                                          BTW, you can download Aspect HD for a free trial to make sure it is a good
                                                                          fit for you before making the purchase.

                                                                          Best,
                                                                          Christopher
                                                                          • 34. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                            Level 1
                                                                            You may even try out the NEO demo if you wanted to save a little money. I loaded it on my old machine (P4) and it worked very well with PPRO's filters. Just a thought.

                                                                            KMS
                                                                            • 35. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                              Hello,

                                                                              " Footnote: there was a bug in the CS3 release where certain HDV files were incorrectly being imported (ie the wrong framerate was being assigned, as the pulldown was being misidentified). This has been fixed in the 3.1.0 updater, so if you don't have that installed, you'll definitely want to get it. "

                                                                              How do you get and apply the "3.1.0 updater"?

                                                                              Thanks!
                                                                              • 36. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                                gold987987987 Level 1
                                                                                I've got CS3 3.1.1 and have the PP2.0 presets installed and when I capture 24f footage from my XH-A1 it still needs to be rendered on the timeline (red bar above footage).

                                                                                PP2.0 doesn't require rendering of the new footage, why doesn't CS3?

                                                                                Has anyone solved this issue?
                                                                                • 37. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                                  John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                                                                  >How do you get and apply the "3.1.0 updater"?

                                                                                  Start by clicking DOWNLOADS at the top of every page

                                                                                  A few screens to read the options, and a few more clicks, and you will get to the update page where you may download... or, just go to

                                                                                  http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=98&platform=Windows
                                                                                  • 38. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                                    Level 1
                                                                                    Scott -

                                                                                    The presets don't work in CS3. I've been working on a project in CS3 shot in Canon 24F for a few months now, and I've been doing in under that preset from PPro 2. So far, everything has been almost fine. I did have some clips that were seen as 29.97, not 23.976.

                                                                                    I'm hoping that Adobe will update the presets soon...
                                                                                    • 39. Re: Canon 24F in CS3...
                                                                                      Level 1
                                                                                      Thanks John!!
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