38 Replies Latest reply on Nov 29, 2007 7:28 AM by Jim_Simon

    Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks

    Level 1
      I have Adobe Creative Suite CS3.

      I was wondering how one goes about creating an HD DVD from multiple projects in PPro CS3.

      I can create an SD DVD from one sequence in a PPro CS 3 project. But don't see how I would create an SD DVD from multiple sequences in one PPro project or from multiple PPro projects.

      Similarly, how does one go about burning an HD DVD or Blu-Ray disk in a similar situation? Is the HD DVD media the same as the regular DVD? If not where can I buy the media from. Also what do I need on my PC to be able to burn such media. I know my PC has a Blu-Ray/DVD burner (don't kow it's an HD DVD burner).

      Any help would be apprecaited.

      Shiv
        • 1. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          HD-DVD is not supported.

          Either with nested sequences as a single timeline or with multiple timelines in Encore.
          • 2. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
            Level 1
            So essentially,

            burning HD DVD is out of the question using Encore?

            What about Blu-Ray?
            • 3. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
              Phil Griffith Level 2
              blue ray is supported. hd-dvd is not.
              • 4. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                Bill Heslip Level 1
                As far as I know, there are no HD DVD burners (yet). However, you can burn a limited amount of HD material to a standard DVD that will play on a HD DVD player. I don't think this type of disc can be "authored" (it may just play the video), so you would simply burn the HD file (some restrictions apply) to disc with Toast or similar (I'm speculating on this last part).

                If you have a BD burner, doesn't Encore have this capability already? You would need Blu-Ray recordable media and a player.

                Can't speak to the multiple projects question.
                • 5. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                  Level 1
                  Harm, Phil thank you you both for your replies.

                  Bill,
                  Thanks for your reply and clearing up the HD DVD aspect of my question. I've not tried burning Blu-Ray cause it seems these disks are $10-$20 each. It's a bit expensive to be doing trial and error with media that is so expensive. I do see the option to burn Blu-Ray disks however.

                  Any guidance on settings to use, things to be watchful of etc.?
                  • 6. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                    As with DVD, you should do Blu-ray testing testing on rewritable disks. (BD-RE)
                    • 7. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                      Level 1
                      Jim,

                      So you're saying test the project (menu etc.) by writing it out to a rewritable disk and then, in order to make a disk to give to a client say, write the finalized project to a write once disk. That seem like a good idea.

                      The questions I have are:

                      1. Is it possible to encode a sequence to something and then use that from within Encore? In other words, I'd like to encode multiple projects and or sequences from PPro and then later go into Encore and author the Blu-Ray disk.

                      2. What should this encoding format be?

                      3. Can I maintain the same Encore project for SD DVD and Blu-Ray?

                      Shiv.
                      • 8. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                        mickkeay Level 1
                        If the project is up to 15 mins then you can burn a standard DVD as blu-ray compliant (UDF2.5?) using cheapo Nero. Render as HDV or H264 in PP first. It works well and the ones I have burnt all play well in my son's PS3. I too am waiting for Blu-ray burners and media to drop in price
                        • 9. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                          Level 1
                          Mick,

                          Can you explain that somemore please? When you say render as HDV or H264 in PPro first what do you mean. What is the file type or extension and what are the other parameters?
                          • 10. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                            mickkeay Level 1
                            I am in the UK so I shoot 1080i/50 From the timeline I therefore used media encoder HDV 1080/50 preset. File extension was m2t. I also tried one of the blu-ray H264 presets - it took soooo much longer. I burnt both to a standard DVD using NeroVision(as prev post) and viewed (scrutinized) on 50" TV via PS3 (dont yet have a blu-ray player) There was no difference - both excellent - and there was some quite radical time remapping in PP too. Havent worked out how to play the resultant DVDs in my XP PC yet though.
                            • 11. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                              Shiv,

                              1 and 2 I'm not sure on. Someone else will have to help with them. But 3 is a yes. One of the nice things about Encore CS3 is that from a single authoring, you can create a DVD, a Blu-ray and a Flash file.
                              • 12. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                Level 1
                                Mick,

                                Thanks for the clear explanation! I'll try this out.

                                Jim,

                                Thanks for the reply and confirmation on that question. That's good to know. I didn't want to have to maintain multiple projects.

                                So can I first encode a bunch of sequences/projects to a certain file type (suitable for DVD and/or Blu-ray) and then in Encore CS3 simple pick and choose those files as source files to compose my DVD/Blu-ray?

                                What is the best work flow for this and what should the encoding be for the case where it could be output to a DVD or Blu-ray from Encore?
                                • 13. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                  Level 1
                                  MickKeay: "If the project is up to 15 mins then you can burn a standard DVD as blu-ray compliant (UDF2.5?) using cheapo Nero. Render as HDV or H264 in PP first. It works well and the ones I have burnt all play well in my son's PS3."

                                  This is an interesting concept! Would anyone know if this type of DVD would play in a Sony set-top Blu-ray player? If so, it would be a very economical way of previewing short video segments.
                                  • 14. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                    mickkeay Level 1
                                    Ron

                                    Funny you should ask... tomorrow I am going to take one of the discs into town and ask them to play it in a shop on a standard Blu-ray player. I think it should be OK - the file structure on the discs certainly looks to be OK - and a PS3 is a Blu-Ray player after all. I will let you know how I get on
                                    • 15. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                      mickkeay Level 1
                                      OK - I tried the disk in 2 Sony Blu-ray players plus a samsung - and it played fine in all. I am now wondering if I can get 30 mins on a dual layer disc.
                                      • 16. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                        Level 1
                                        MickKeay,

                                        Thanks for posting the results of your Blu-ray player testing. This is good info to know as I move into burning short HDV projects.
                                        • 17. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                          Level 1
                                          MickKeay,

                                          Are you saying an HD DVD burned on a regular DVD plays back ok on Blu-ray disk players?

                                          Would you be kind enough to post the work flow, settings etc. for what you did?

                                          Thanks.

                                          Shiv.
                                          • 18. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                            mickkeay Level 1
                                            (aplogies if this double posts)

                                            Shiv - That would be nice but no. I am using Nerovision to burn a standard DVD with Hi def content (max 15mins on single layer) so it plays in a Bluray player (or Playstation3) in HD
                                            • 19. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                              Bill Heslip Level 1
                                              >If the project is up to 15 mins then you can burn a standard DVD as blu-ray compliant (UDF2.5?) using cheapo Nero. Render as HDV or H264 in PP first. It works well and the ones I have burnt all play well in my son's PS3. I too am waiting for Blu-ray burners and media to drop in price.

                                              I'm curious as to how this works. I know SD DVD-R is HD DVD compatible, and that HD DVD files (up to the size limit of the DVD) can be burned to a standard DVD-R and played on an HD DVD player. This makes sense in that both DVD and HD DVD use red lasers. However, Blu-Ray obviously uses blue lasers that I didn't think were backward compatible with standard DVD-R (I'm sure it will not read HD DVD discs). I can only assume the PS3 has dual capability to read both red laser DVD-R discs and blue laser discs. I'm pleasantly surprised by this.

                                              Shiv, I don't yet know the specific workflow, but here is what I do know about burning HD DVD files to DVD-R (which is likely different from burning Blu-Ray compliant files to a DVD). This only works if you use an HD DVD player. You will get good results, up to one hour of video, with a peak bandwith of 19 Mbps, or up to 30 Mbps peak bandwidth by adding 700 MB of padding to each layer (to avoid the inner hub area). Of course you will not get anywhere near an hour's worth of video on the disc using the later method. 720p can be H.264. 1080i/p must be MPEG-2. The main benefit of using an HD DVD player is that they are about 1/3 the cost of Blu-Ray players. What I'm not so sure about is whether or not this workflow is supported in Encore (it is with Apple's DVD Studio Pro).
                                              • 20. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                Level 1
                                                Bill,

                                                I don't see an option for HD DVD in Encore. Which is why I'd like a clearer explanation on the workflow involved to go from PPro CS3 to Encore CS3 for HD DVD.

                                                I'd also like to know the best encoding settings from for HDV source in PPro CS3 when the intent is to import that file as a source in Encore for either Blu-ray or SD DVD.
                                                • 21. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                  Level 1
                                                  MickKeay,

                                                  I'm sorry but I still don't get it :).

                                                  1. How do you burn HD content to a DVD?
                                                  2. How do you prevent the content from being transcoded to SD before burning?
                                                  3. What is the source HDV format? As is how did you go from the mpeg captured from the camera to that being the source for the DVD burning side of things?
                                                  4. If the HDV content is to be edited in PPro CS3 then what encoding settings should one use to get that file to be the source for either HD DVD destination or Blu-ray destination?
                                                  • 22. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                    Bill Heslip Level 1
                                                    Shiv, from what MickKeay wrote, it appears as though you can render an HDV or H.264 file out of PPro and burn it directly to a blu-ray compliant DVD (using Nero in his case...perhaps Roxio would also work). Try a VBR data rate of 19 Mbps peak and see if it works. Encore would not be needed, thus no authoring, just playback.
                                                    • 23. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                      >I'd like a clearer explanation on the workflow involved to go from PPro CS3 to Encore CS3 for HD DVD.

                                                      My suggestion would be not to. Just use Blu-ray all the way.
                                                      • 24. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                        mickkeay Level 1
                                                        Shiv

                                                        Nerovision has the option to create an HD - AVCHD disc. I take HDV or H264 from CS3, drop in on the nero timeline, pick a menu - and it creates the disc from a standard DVD. (although it obviously wont play in standard DVD player)

                                                        (if this helps) When I look at the disk it has a BDMV root folder with index.bdmv plus directories for STREAM (containing .m2ts files) plus PLAYLIST CLIPINF and BACKUP folders
                                                        • 25. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                                          >Shiv Kumar - I don't see an option for HD DVD in Encore. Which is why I'd like a clearer explanation on the workflow involved to go from PPro CS3 to Encore CS3 for HD DVD

                                                          You don't see that option because it is not there
                                                          http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/encore/

                                                          Encore3 does regular DVD or BluRay... not HD DVD at all
                                                          • 26. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                            Bill Heslip Level 1
                                                            >My suggestion would be not to. Just use Blu-ray all the way.

                                                            Yes, probably the easiest way to do it, however, I think the expense of the Blu-Ray disc was an issue somewhere in this thread. And you'd have to have a BD burner as well.

                                                            While this thread makes my head hurt, the above solutions do offer a workable way around both problems.
                                                            • 27. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                              >the above solutions do offer a workable way around both problems.

                                                              My viewpoint has long been that things should be done right. And if you can't do it right, you shouldn't be doing it at all.

                                                              But I understand not everyone may agree with that philosophy.
                                                              • 28. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                Level 1
                                                                Thank you all for the input.

                                                                MickKeay, thank you for the details on your workflow and the files you see in the DVD once burned.

                                                                There are some customers you have an HD DVD player and some who have Blu-ray so it's nice to know that if one needs to one can do it the way MickKeay suggests.

                                                                Jim,
                                                                Sure, I subscribe to that philosophy as well. I wish the powers that be would "do it right" to start with so we didn't have to do things to support two or more things.
                                                                • 29. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                  Well said, Shiv.
                                                                  • 30. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                    Bill Heslip Level 1
                                                                    >My viewpoint has long been that things should be done right. And if you can't do it right, you shouldn't be doing it at all.

                                                                    So...what is wrong with either of the scenarios discussed above? Looks like a reasonable interim solution for getting short-form HD video out to the corporate boardroom, tradeshow or other venue. Sure beats having to lug a notebook around or resort to buying an Apple TV. Until the Blu-Ray/HD DVD war is settled (if ever), who wants to dive head-first into either gene pool yet? We have the means to shoot, edit and display HD, but because of the Toshiba-Microsoft//Sony cat fight, we don't have a standard for simple playback of our creations. What a shame. For now, BD burners, players and recordable media are too expensive. HD DVD burners don't even exist (thanks in part to Hollywood's draconian DRM), but the players are relatively cheap. Why not take advantage of the ability to record HD to a $.40 DVD-R for play on a $150 HD DVD player (or PS3 if you/your client have one)?

                                                                    In the somewhat early days of DVD-R, if a good client was VHS only, quite often I would give them a DVD player so they could appreciate the full quality of their productions. This gesture paid great dividends :). Until one format or the other becomes mainstream (or should we wind up with dual format players, a plausible outcome), I can see the potential of resuming the "giveaway" program for HD.

                                                                    Once the dust settles, I'm 100% in agreement with you, Jim. Until that time, these solutions make it economically feasible today.
                                                                    • 31. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                      >For now, BD burners, players and recordable media are too expensive.

                                                                      The problem I have with that statement is that in the overall cost of HD production, a Blu-ray burner and media will be a very small percentage.
                                                                      • 32. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                        Bill Heslip Level 1
                                                                        >The problem I have with that statement is that in the overall cost of HD production, a Blu-ray burner and media will be a very small percentage.

                                                                        I knew you might take issue with that one :).

                                                                        OK, let me rephrase:
                                                                        For now, BD players are too expensive to give away. Better?
                                                                        • 33. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                          mickkeay Level 1
                                                                          You could give away PS3s - and be hugely popular with their kids :-)
                                                                          • 34. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                            >For now, BD players are too expensive to give away.

                                                                            Why are we talking about giving away players?
                                                                            • 35. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                              Bill Heslip Level 1
                                                                              >You could give away PS3s - and be hugely popular with their kids
                                                                              :)

                                                                              LOL! :) Don't tempt me!

                                                                              >Why are we talking about giving away players?

                                                                              Haven't you been reading my drivel?
                                                                              • 36. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                                Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                                                                                I have been "giving away" players capable of playing WMV-HD for over two and a half years. I have stopped now because the BD stuff is finally affordable. But until it was, a player attached to the HDTV in a training room gave me an advantage over my competition.
                                                                                • 37. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                                  Jorgen Bjerke Level 1
                                                                                  back to this burning m2t-files to DVD and watch them on regular Blu Ray-players.

                                                                                  Does anyone know if this is within the Blu Ray standard? That is: Should such DVDs or better: Blu Ray disks, play with all Blu Ray players?

                                                                                  I ask because I am about to edit HDV-materials and want to avoid reencoding since HDV already is far too compressed. I know that PPro will reencode anyways, so I was thinking about purchasing Main Concept's MpegProHD, because that plug-in will export my timeline to m2t without reencoding anything but transitions and effects. I was then hoping to use that new m2t-file directly to a Blu Ray disk (or HD-DVD) without messing with the quality. Is that possible?
                                                                                  • 38. Re: Burning HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray disks
                                                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                                    While playback of standard DVD is mandatory with the HD-DVD format, it's only an option for Blu-ray. It's entirely possible for manufacturers to make a proper Blu-ray player that will not handle today's DVDs, even the Hollywood ones. (Though it is extremely unlikely at this early stage.)