9 Replies Latest reply on Nov 15, 2007 9:25 AM by Jim_Simon

    Video Formats

      Can one mix 60i, 30i and 24p and VHS video formats in CS3? What's the best formate to originate in, 60i, 30i or 24p if given a choice?

      James
        • 1. Re: Video Formats
          Eddie Lotter Level 4

          Yes. Personally I edit in the format that closest resembles what I export.

          Cheers
          Eddie


          Forum FAQ
          Premiere Pro Wiki
          - Over 250 frequently answered questions
          - Over 100 free tutorials
          - Maintained by editors like you
          • 2. Re: Video Formats
            Harm Millaard Level 7
            Sorry, but I do not understand it. 60i is interpreted by me as being 30 FPS interlaced, consisting of 60 fields. 30i would lead me to the conclusion that you are talking about 15 FPS and 30 fields interlaced. 24P is clear, but what about the VHS source, is that NTSC DF or NDF?

            My initial reaction would be to create 3 projects, suited to your source material, export each project to the format you want to deliver and then combine these projects.
            • 3. Re: Video Formats
              Jim_Simon Level 8
              Given a choice, the best format to shoot in will be 1080p/24.
              • 4. Re: Video Formats
                Harm Millaard Level 7
                Being in PAL land, I would prefer 1080p/50 and for NTSC 1080p/60.
                24P is just too jittery on pans or fast movements. Even the film industry is seriously considering a move to 48FPS.
                • 5. Re: Video Formats
                  Level 1
                  It is always best to shoot at as high a frame rate as possible. The film standard of 24 fps is a compromise between the amount of film needed and the tolerance to flicker. The minimum rate to find flicker tolerable is about 50 fps. While a film is shot at 24 fps it is projected at at least twice that rate, 48 fps in theatres (e.g each frame is projected at least twice). While this reduces flicker, it does not make fast movements any smoother. Videographer's obcession with "film look" has created this move backward from 30 fps to 24 fps. Of course 60p requires twice the number of frames then 30p or 60i. Since the frame changes are very small from frame to frame a good interframe codec will handle this with only a small increase in bit rate. But Jim's favorite codec AVC-Intra would double the bit rate when going from 30p/60i to 60p.
                  • 6. Re: Video Formats
                    Level 1
                    To my original question, which was basically:

                    What's the best formate to originate in, 60i, 30i or 24p if given a choice? Can one mix 60i, 30i and 24p and VHS video formats in Premiere Pro CS3?

                    I received the below interesting answers -- some by email and others posted here -- for which I thank all of you who contributed. Unfortunately, there seems to be some uncertainty, if not disagreement and confusion over this topic. I myself, am still confused, thus this email/post is proffered to futher explore this.

                    Here are the posts/emails in order of receipt:

                    --------------------------------------------------------

                    Yes. Personally I edit in the format that closest resembles what I export.

                    Sorry, but I do not understand it. 60i is interpreted by me as being 30 FPS interlaced, consisting of 60 fields. 30i would lead me to the conclusion that you are talking about 15 FPS and 30 fields interlaced. 24P is clear, but what about the VHS source, is that NTSC DF or NDF? My initial reaction would be to create 3 projects, suited to your source material, export each project to the format you want to deliver and then combine these projects.

                    James, IMO, 24p should be reserved for material that will be transferred to film for theatrical release. I prefer to see footage that is shot in 60i if I'm going to watch it on a video display, these are almost universally set up to display this format. Some like to pretend that the material was sourced from film and use 24p video as a 'cheat'; that is a matter of style. This, to some eyes, gives it a 'look' that suggests a more 'formal' approach that may serve your educational purpose. Personally, I prefer the higher temporal resolution, but as you are aware, I don't always reflect the opinion of the masses (yet). 30p may be a 'happy medium' between the two and it will make display on computer screens look better. (Professional video technician/cameraman in LA)

                    Given a choice, the best format to shoot in will be 1080p/24.

                    Hmm...I'm not sure I know the difference between 60i and 30i. I have seen the standard NTSC frame rate of 30 fps (29.97 fps, in reality) called both 60i and 30i, depending on how one counts the frames. That said, if you are planning to print your video to film and exibit in theaters, I would shoot 24p. If you expect to exhibit only on DVD and the internet, I would NOT shoot 24p. In my experience, 24p is only good when the final release version is 24 fps film. If the final release version is DVD (or VHS tape or any other standard American TV standard) and internet, it is ultimately going to be converted to 30 interleaved fps (whether you call that 60i or 30i) anyway. Shooting in 24p and converting to 30 fps causes the image to be oddly jerky. The image remains smooth by shooting 30 fps and exhibiting 30 fps. So, to answer your question, you have to consider your ultimate exhibition medium (which I presume will be DVD and internet). (Professional director/cameraman in LA)

                    Being in PAL land, I would prefer 1080p/50 and for NTSC 1080p/60. 24P is just too jittery on pans or fast movements. Even the film industry is seriously considering a move to 48FPS.

                    It is always best to shoot at as high a frame rate as possible. The film standard of 24 fps is a compromise between the amount of film needed and the tolerance to flicker. The minimum rate to find flicker tolerable is about 50 fps. While a film is shot at 24 fps it is projected at at least twice that rate, 48 fps in theatres (e.g each frame is projected at least twice). While this reduces flicker, it does not make fast movements any smoother. Videographer's obcession with "film look" has created this move backward from 30 fps to 24 fps. Of course 60p requires twice the number of frames then 30p or 60i. Since the frame changes are very small from frame to frame a good interframe codec will handle this with only a small increase in bit rate. But Jim's favorite codec AVC-Intra would double the bit rate when going from 30p/60i to 60p.

                    --------------------------------------

                    P.S. For anyone who wishes to join in, this discussion is taking place, in part, at the ADOBE Forum at
                    http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/?13@@.3c05524e/2 and by email. I will forward this discussion, without names, to those of you who I asked this question to by email. Thanks for any input, as I really would like to see this subject nailed down.
                    • 7. Re: Video Formats
                      Level 1
                      >Yes. Personally I edit in the format that closest resembles what I export.

                      1. That's good general advice, but in the real world things don't always work out A to B. For instance, my current project will be shot with a number of cameramen all over the country using different cameras and potentially different formats. Further, footage will come in from both analog and digital sources (such as VHS, mini DV, DVDs, 3/4-inch and possibly film transfers).

                      2. Lastly, this project is intended for theatrical release, however, one never really knows untill the film is DONE whether it will actually GET a theatrical release.

                      Thus, given the variety of origination format selections and the abiguity of the distribution format, the optimum solution is elusive.

                      What it really comes down to is this: What final edit format looks good on DVD BUT is easiest to convert to a format that a 35-mm release print can be struck from?

                      AND

                      What origination format is best for cutting in Pro CS3, given the above, and given the choice between 30i, 60i and 24p, taking into consideration that the Pro CS3 timetrack will also have to accomodate digitized analog footage.
                      • 8. Re: Video Formats
                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                        >24P is just too jittery on pans or fast movements.

                        I don't know. "Attack of the Clones" looked pretty good in such scenes.
                        • 9. Re: Video Formats
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          >my current project will be shot with a number of cameramen all over the country using different cameras and potentially different formats.

                          Don't do the last part. Keep your camera ops shooting in the same format. Whatever you choose, make sure all original acquisition is identical.

                          Now, given that you intend a 35mm film out for this project, I stand by my earlier comment that 1080p/24 is the best choice.