34 Replies Latest reply on Jan 22, 2008 5:04 AM by (Streetwise_Creative)

    video and audio sync problems?

    scott mackenzie Level 1
      Hi Guys,

      I am trying to capture 40mins of footage straight from my sony v1e to CS3.

      Each time I do this there seems to be a little 'glitch' that throws the sync out?

      This hasn't happened before as I was just using very small clips.

      Can I use any other program to capture and then just import to CS3.

      Will HDVsplit and others work with high quality etc?

      thanks

      scott mackenzie
        • 1. Re: video and audio sync problems?
          (C._David_Young) Level 1
          Just search a little and you will find several threads on the CS3 audio sync problem. If you search for my name you will find my workaround as well as others.
          • 2. Re: video and audio sync problems?
            Level 1
            HDV split works fine from my Canon HV10 into Premiere Pro 2. I suppose the same will work into CS3.
            • 3. Re: video and audio sync problems?
              Level 1
              Simple fix: A-V-I-D
              • 4. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                Go away banders100 - you are not needed here and you post for no reason, with terrible advice.
                • 5. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                  (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                  I am getting so frustrated with this out of sync problem. I just must have a work around or I will go mad at my computer. I am not interested in why it goes out of sync.. it does I need to solve it and with the least money as HDV has already cost me big.

                  These are the suggestions i have gleaned so far. Which in "your" opinion is the best...or have you a better suggestion please....

                  1.Capture to Audition/ convert audio to wave/ adjust time codes on the time line in CS3

                  2. Use Cineform. It is just so expensive. It worked well when i had the trial version, but could not afford to buy it when the trial ran out.

                  3. Capture with HDV Split.

                  4. Export time line to another audio programme and change it to wav or MP3. Bring it back in and line it up.

                  5. Use the Morgan-mjpeg codec (reasonably priced, but does it work?)

                  6. Use main concept mjpeg. Sounds dodgy from what i have read.

                  7. Any other suggestions please.... please

                  Many thanks

                  Brian
                  • 6. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                    Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                    Brian,

                    The one particular issue, that of the Sync problem, can be solved by batch capturing between start/stop points on the tape, or using HDVSplit to do that for you. Those two make the most sense.
                    • 7. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                      (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                      At this very moment I am doing this on HD Split. It s 40 minute single shot and i have been looking at HDV split to see if i could get it to split say every 5 minutes as opposed to manually stopping it (I would like to go and leave it!)

                      Never mind, those are two good suggestions that i will follow up.

                      Thanks.
                      • 8. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                        Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                        A 40 minute single shot should not have any sync issues. Only when the camera starts and stops recording are there sync issues. If that is not the case, please let us know.
                        • 9. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                          (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                          Well then, I need to let you know.

                          This is what i did. I laid out the video and audio on the CS3 time line and extended out (+) to maximum. i brought the video up to maximum that would allow me to see the lip movements of the target.

                          I then sat and watched it play. I do not recall now how many "fluffs" there were but i would say 6 at least. What seems to happen is that suddenly there is a "second"(?) or so ( likened it to putting in the clutch when you change gear) of an event that i have called "fluffing". This indicates a change in lip synch of mostly around 2 seconds ... 1.7 and one of them went to nearly 4 seconds.

                          The "fluffing" is like as if a person with a speaking handicap is going "aadab/adab/adab" and breathing in whilst they are doing it!

                          I love Premiere so much that i desperately do not want this to be a bug that results in me dropping the programme. I have re installed, I have put the 3.1 patch in. To crown it all today I am unable to capture at all in (CS3). I am going mad! Could it be the HV20 or that Adobe needs to recognize the HV20?

                          I really don't know what to do, i am at my wits end. I have tried with both my HV20s, nothing changes. Thank goodness this is only a hobby job. Thank goodness that i am retired and (theoretically) have the time to mess about with this.

                          I have only encountered this level of frustration a couple of times in my "computer lifetime".

                          Oh, looking for an excuse for the programme, I did move the camera whilst still running about three times in the shoot. The "fluffing" was not associated with these moves.

                          I am sorry to sound so grumpy... I do not want to be. I want it to be my fault!
                          • 10. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                            (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                            I am now capturing again (!)
                            This time I have done a 20 minute clip.
                            One shot.
                            At 11:08 it went out of sync by -1.08.

                            At 20 minutes i stopped the camera, set up my shot and then started again. This time the error was -2.00 (actually i tweaked it very slightly again later on)
                            • 11. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                              Jeron Coolman Level 1
                              Brian,

                              To add to your list...

                              8. Use Premiere Pro 2.0 to capture

                              9. Use Vegas to capture

                              CS3's HDV capture tool doesn't work, at least at release. They may have fixed it with 3.1, but I didn't see anything in the release notes to indicate they did. I've wasted so much time on that tool, I won't waste any more time until someone I respect says it was fixed :)

                              ANY capture tool should work better.

                              All of my tapes are single shots with no stops. Turn on the camera and record until end of tape. I tried capturing about 3 dozen of them and didn't get a single good capture. Premiere Pro 2 had no problems with those tapes, neither did Avid and neither did Vegas.

                              Even clips that I captured where the audio wasn't out of sync, wouldn't sync with other similar clips when it came to multi-cam. Maybe they would have worked on their own, but I multi-cam every project. I did notice that projects with clips that were captured with CS3 were twice as flaky as normal.

                              I capture with Vegas and haven't had a single bad clip.
                              • 12. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                                I have also had a private message that says capture with "Windows movie maker" I am not sure that it handles HDV, but clearly handles DV well as the person who wrote to me is a respected pro/am film maker.

                                I just feel so let down that when you go to "the best" something like this happens.

                                I will finish this project, then i am out of here! Perhaps today if the remnants of my hair do not block up the keyboard and mouse! :)

                                BTW I was offered a 5 camera multi cam edit, just at the start of this project (paid!) and i turned it down as i wanted to sort this out before i got into that level of stuff (it would have been my first real multi cam edit) I was convinced it was "me or my Canon HV20" not the software!!!

                                Oh dear.
                                • 13. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                  Alan L. McInnes Level 1
                                  I have Premiere Pro CS3 running on an iMac Dual Quad Pro with 4 gigs of Ram. Yesterday I captured a 62 minute continuous recording. The entire recording is about 2 seconds out of sync. Am I hearing correctly that PP CS3 can't capture in sync at all? How is that? How do you promote a product to be a "professional" product when it can't perform the most basic function for which it was designed?

                                  Are there any patches or updates yet? What is the solution?

                                  Thanks for any help or advice.
                                  • 14. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                    (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                                    Sadly, Today i have re installed Sony Vegas on to my computer. Certainly I will use it to re capture the footage for the project that has caused me all this grief and, as i have used Vegas before, I will see if my skills in it can be quickly regained.

                                    Its a really bad day for me... I just loved CS3, but cant continue with it i am afraid.
                                    • 15. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                      Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                      Brian, if you really don't want to drop CS3, do yourself a favor and try using the clips captured with Vegas in CS3. You will probably find that they work just fine and you can still use CS3.
                                      • 16. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                        Level 1
                                        Can a person capture in Onlocation from tape? Just a thought....

                                        KMS
                                        • 17. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                          Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                          I haven't tried that, but theoretically it should work. Good idea.
                                          • 18. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                            (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                                            I tried using the Vegas capture in CS3 but it had all TV like horizontal lines on it when I imported it into CS3, but the audio was in synch!

                                            I have done a quick and dirty edit in Vegas and will export this so that i can do the effects in CS3
                                            • 19. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                              Level 1
                                              Brian,

                                              A while back I suggested to Jeron to use Vegas to capture his HDV clips and import those into Premiere. I did that and it worked for me and I also had fields but they did not show up on my final export.

                                              Okay, check your field settings in your project to make sure they are right. Then if the fields still persist, do not stress, try export a small piece of a clip again playing with the field settings (do NOT deinterlace) and it should show up normally with no fields or loss of quality.

                                              Let me know. :-)
                                              • 20. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                                                Sounds worth a try.

                                                Perhaps over the weekend. Thanks
                                                • 21. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                  Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                                  I never saw that problem Brian.

                                                  If it helps, all I did was create a new HDV Vegas project, then captured all of the tapes into it. HDV is not the default type for a project.
                                                  • 22. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                    Level 1
                                                    When it happened to me, I was convinced it was a tape problem. Then I read these posts. Then I re-installed PPro 2.0 and added a HDV clip captured with CS3 to PPro 2.0. At this point PPro 2.0 went into an infinite loop "Indexing clip.mpeg". I mean, it would index it all the way, and then start indexing the same clip again. I checked the transcodes folder for the PPro 2.0 project, and saw multiple index files being created. Something seems to be strange with the MPEG files CS3 captures.
                                                    • 23. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                      (C._David_Young) Level 1
                                                      I had previously analyzed this sync problem and posted my workaround several times, but it seems people are still searching for the solution. It really is not a CS3 capture problem. It is how CS3 handles video glitches with respect to the audio.

                                                      Unfortunately, the latest update did not fix the sync problem even though it claims to have "fixed" the red frame problem, which was really not a problem since it helped us identify the video dropouts.

                                                      I always capture continuous tapes from beginning to end. I find it so much easier to manage a single file than dozens of clips. Inevitably though, there are one or more dropouts in the video. Prior to CS3 this had never caused a problem with the audio sync.

                                                      My solution is to take the hour long clip (captured with whatever tool you wish, including CS3) into PP2 and render it out with the media encoder using the HDV preset with quality set to 5. The resulting clip is identical in quality to the original clip (from my eye) and PP2 renders the dropouts into "clean" video with no sync problems. You can then use these rendered clips in your CS3 project with no problem.
                                                      • 24. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                        Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                                        >It really is not a CS3 capture problem. It is how CS3 handles video glitches with respect to the audio.

                                                        If CS3 can't properly capture ANY HDV tape I give it, yet every other capture program I use for those same tapes capture the tapes properly, then it IS a CS3 capture problem.

                                                        There is no way the 3 dozen or so tapes I've tried with CS3 all have "glitches" in them that other capture programs have no problem with.

                                                        I don't understand why you add a generation of rendering. I can capture a tape in any other program, even PP2, and use it just fine in CS3.
                                                        • 25. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                          (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                                                          I bought CineForm Aspect HD so that I could continue using CS3 which I really love. Adobe should re-imburse me for this expense!

                                                          Cinefom is really great and solves all the problems.

                                                          I have to plead guilty to not finding Jeron's workaround. It would have saved me a scad of money. :(

                                                          I think I became so angry with CS3 that I lost my logical problem solving ability.

                                                          I remain amazed that such a high end programme that promotes itself with grandiose claims have got this so wrong.

                                                          Thanks Jeron.
                                                          • 26. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                            h2ofun Level 1
                                                            I am having the same issue but it is with DV material. I never had this issue with PPro2 so I am pretty shocked I wasted so much time trying to figure it out, and the problem is CS3. I need to get work done, and sure do not want to have to try and reload PPRo2, etc. to "fix" an issue of Sync. If CS3 causes video/audio sync issues, what good is the s/w?

                                                            Another thing weird is when I brought in HDV material with CF, CS3 had read bars over sections of the timeline which made no sense since I had made no changes. Was this showing the CS3 saw issues between the video and audio?

                                                            Man, the problem gets bigger.

                                                            Dave
                                                            • 27. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                              h2ofun Level 1
                                                              So, I just reloaded PPro2 and loaded my project.
                                                              I then exported to movie a new AVI clip, which I thought from what
                                                              I read here would clean stuff up. Same issue when I bring into Ultra, the audio goes nuts.

                                                              Dave
                                                              • 28. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                                Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                                                >I think I became so angry with CS3 that I lost my logical problem solving ability.

                                                                Lol Brian, I've been guilty of the same crime... many, many times :)

                                                                This problem pretty much makes it impossible to edit an HDV project with just CS3. It makes you wonder what kind of QA process Adobe goes through? Obviously, no one at Adobe actually uses Premiere Pro to work on HDV projects...
                                                                • 29. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                                  (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                                                                  Of late I have been doing quite a bit of WW2 oral history stuff with a two camera shoot. Syncing it up has been sheer hell.

                                                                  Your observation that it how CS3 handles glitches is the root case of the lack of sync fits in with my observation of just what happened on the time line when I lose sync (see message #9)

                                                                  It does raise the question about why I would have a few glitches along the way, but that is another issue and not for this thread. I did note one glitch when I shifted the tripod to re-frame up the subject after a a few minutes of shooting.

                                                                  Though CineForm has solved my problems (so far...fingers crossed) I am still interested in following this problem through.
                                                                  • 30. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                                    Level 1
                                                                    What if I don't have CS2? Is there any hope for me? I read that Leopard might fix the problem for me... I'm not sure what platform we're talking about for everyone in this thread though...

                                                                    Thanks.
                                                                    • 31. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                                      Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                                                      If I remember right, someone posted a workaround that involved something like exporting the audio to soundbooth or audition (if audition then you may be out of luck on the Mac platform), doing something to the audio, then importing it back in.

                                                                      You'll have to do some searching on the many threads discussing this problem to find it though :(
                                                                      • 32. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                                        (C._David_Young) Level 1
                                                                        In response to an earlier posting, I never noticed how many glitches my HDV tapes have until I started using CS3. I always capture the entire tape and there is usually at least one glitch. PP2 did not have a problem with respect to the audio after a video glitch. However, if you take an hour of video captured with PP2 and put it in CS3 with a video glitch, it suffers from the audio sync problem. Likewise, you can take an hour of video captured with CS3 that has the same problem and put it in PP2 and the problem goes away. That is why I say the CS3 does not have a capture problem, it is how it handles the video glitches.

                                                                        The latest CS3 patch actually made the problem worse because it "fixed" the red frame problem that occurred whenever a video glitch occurred. Now the video glitches are harder to find and the audio sync problem remains.

                                                                        As I have pointed out before, my workaround is to render the hour of video in PP2 using the HDV preset. This turns the video glitch into good frames that CS3 has no problem with and the audio stays in sync.
                                                                        • 33. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                                          (Brian_Lemin) Level 1
                                                                          I have to say that I am exceedingly mad with Adobe that this fault has been around for so long now and not a successful patch insight. A top line editing programme with a fundamental flaw in it.

                                                                          PP2 does the job for you and is a good workaround.

                                                                          I finally went to CineForm Aspect HD as much for help with my hardware for editing as to solve the audio sync problems. I needed this as sometimes I have almost two hours of video on a timeline and without CineForm i doubt if my hardware set up would handle it.

                                                                          HD Split is a simple and cheap solution also. Strangely capturing in Premiere Elements v3 possibly v4 too, and then importing to CS3 is reported to work too. BTW you can move stuff from Elements to CS3 but not vice versa. I used Premiere Elements on my laptop whilst on holiday. It was the first time I used it and it did family movies very well indeed. I even thought about converting entirely to P Elements! That thought is a sad reflection upon Adobe high end programmes. The trouble is i have tried a number of NLEs and nothing suits me more than Adobe.

                                                                          Yes I too have read the import into Audition solution but do not remeber the details.

                                                                          I have to say that I am now almost totally determined to go back to PP 2. At least until a patch is available, and certainly for big projects. For me that is 45 minutes plus.
                                                                          • 34. Re: video and audio sync problems?
                                                                            Level 1
                                                                            That CineForm HD product sounds interesting. Does it offer close to RT performance on a beefy system, or do you have some hardware (blackmagic) to go with it?

                                                                            For me, I don't have access to CS2, otherwise I'd be all over it. I'm wondering if I should place a call to Adobe to get a free copy?

                                                                            For the moment, I found HDVxDV which is similar to HDSplit, but for the MAC. It captures the entire tape, but then has to convert it from it's proprietary format which took about two hours to do. The upside is that I now have video that's in sync, but what a terrible workaround...

                                                                            If this CS3 issue keeps up for much longer, I wouldn't be surprised to see Premiere flounder with the MAC platform support sinking all together. And it won't be because people didn't give it an all-out try...