20 Replies Latest reply on Nov 29, 2007 4:27 PM by Eric1138

    Help me please...

      I know this has been discussed - but I have heard many different opinions.

      I have the Canon XH A1, which I highly recommend by the way. I shot a project in 24F HDV.

      I'm supposed to use 1080i.

      After installing the 3.1 patch, it still gives me this:

      During setup:

      1080p will give me 24fps, 30fps...

      1080i only gives me 25fps & 30fps -

      But, I shot it in 24fps.

      What can I do? Any help would be deeply appreciated.
        • 1. Re: Help me please...
          Level 1
          There's not much you can do with Canon 24F material right now with CS3. Unless you buy Cineform, or something like it, you have to edit in PPro 2, which has a preset for Canon 24F material.

          Trust me, this is killing me. On Thursday I am renting an XL H1, re-installing PPro 2 on my machine, and starting on a project shot 24F. After much testing, 24F doesn't play right with CS3 without help...

          If anyone from Adobe reads this post, please help us out - update those PPro 2 presets!!!!
          • 2. Re: Help me please...
            Level 1
            Thank you for the empathy. This is amazing to me; why would the latest software leave out features from the previous version?
            • 3. Re: Help me please...
              Jim_Simon Level 9
              Not enough people used it?
              • 4. Re: Help me please...
                Level 1
                "Not enough people used it?"

                And Adobe has been secretly tracking this info...?
                • 5. Re: Help me please...
                  Level 1

                  24F is flawed and actually reduces quality.
                  • 6. Re: Help me please...
                    Jim_Simon Level 9
                    >Adobe has been secretly tracking this info...?

                    Of course! The reason you have to have an Internet connection for activation and updates has two functions. Premiere actually includes a hidden keylogger that runs in the background. Adobe knows every little detail about every project you do.

                    Try this. Next time you start Premiere, look at your Task Manager first. Notice how many processes are running. Then start Premiere. You'll notice the total go up by two, not just one.
                    • 7. Re: Help me please...
                      Level 1
                      "24F is flawed and actually reduces quality. "

                      That may be, but that still doesn't stop clients from shooting in it. And that still doesn't explain why Adobe didn't update the preset...
                      • 8. Re: Help me please...
                        Level 1
                        I contacted Adobe and the guy said that progressive just means 24 FPS. He said I should use 1080p instead of 1080i because I am shooting at 24 fps - but the canon xh a1 shoots 24 f / 1080i. I don't get it.
                        • 9. Re: Help me please...
                          Level 1
                          Quote from Canon's site:

                          "In 60i mode, you have the standard NTSC interlaced video field rate. 30F and 24F offer full frame rates for additional clarity and a film-like look. These Frame modes have the same look as progressive frame rates, but are not labeled "progressive" because they are created with an interlaced chip. The end result is exactly the same to the editing system (and to our eyes) as 30p and 24p, respectively."

                          In other words, in 30p & 24p modes, there is no temporal displacement in each frame, ie there's no fielding. If that's the case, you'll want to use a progressive preset (1080p) for any rendering.

                          • 10. Re: Help me please...
                            Level 1
                            Thank you Wil.
                            • 11. Re: Help me please...
                              Level 1
                              Are you guy's telling me that this is all it was? People have been complaining about this since CS3 came out. Did this fix everybody's problem?
                              • 12. Re: Help me please...
                                Level 1
                                It seems to be that way.
                                • 13. Re: Help me please...
                                  Level 1
                                  So, Wil, are you saying that CS3 does work with 24F from Canon with the 1080P HDV preset?

                                  Because after I loaded in some test footage with this setting, CS3 was inconsistant about seeing it as 23.976. It often saw it as 29.97. And if I did an "interpret footage" and changed it to 23.976, it then beecame 23.98 and played out of synch.

                                  When I put the same footage in PPRo 2, with the Canon 24F preset, it all worked fine...

                                  Now, the footage I used wasn't captured by me - it was given to me as test footage - not sure if that makes a difference or not. So are you saying that if I capture in CS3 was those settings, all should work fine?

                                  I'd love to know seeing how I start on a 24F project tomorrow , and I'd love to not have to load PPRo 2 back on my edit computer.

                                  Thanks for your input, Wil!
                                  • 14. Re: Help me please...
                                    Level 1
                                    Hi Eric -

                                    Your sync problems are most likely fixed in the 3.1.0 update, where we fixed a bug where 30 fps clips were being incorrectly imported as 24 fps. Let me know if you're still seeing issues after updating.

                                    • 15. Re: Help me please...
                                      Level 1
                                      I read somewhere that someone was using the 1080 30p preset and changing the settings to 23.97 and it was working. If Will's suggestion does not work you might want to try that one.
                                      • 16. Re: Help me please...
                                        Level 1
                                        Hi Wil...

                                        Thanks for the follow up...

                                        I have 3.1 and it doesn't work. I posted in this forum about this problem earlier this month ( "Canon 24F in CS3..." #1, 7 Nov 2007 9:35 am) and tried different combinations only to find that CS3 doesn't always play well with the 24F files.

                                        I'd be happy to post one of the 24F test files for you to check. It'll open in PPro 2 as a 23.976 clip, but in CS3, it comes in as 29.97.

                                        Thanks again for your time - it's very much appreciated!
                                        • 17. Re: Help me please...
                                          Level 1
                                          Yeah, if you could post a short sample clip somewhere, that would be tremendously useful!

                                          • 18. Re: Help me please...
                                            Level 1
                                            Hi Wil...


                                            If you have any trouble downloading it, let me know. I put this clip in PPro 2 - comes in at 23.976 (under the Canon 24F preset). In CS3, in a custom preset using your suggestions (or the Canon preset from PPro 2), it comes in at 29.97 and is out of synch.

                                            • 19. Re: Help me please...
                                              Level 1
                                              Excellent, thanks for the source clip. Looks like Canon MPEG files declare their pulldown differently, and that we don't handle that case correctly.

                                              Anticipating the 'when do you think you'll have a fix' question: The fix isn't trivial, as it could aversely affect other MPEG variants, so we're not going to hold up the 3.1.1 update for this. It's going to take us some time to regress & make sure that we don't break anything. But we're actively working on the issue.

                                              • 20. Re: Help me please...
                                                Level 1

                                                You're the best. I really, really do appreciate your support, and for being there for us PPro users. I can't tell you how much it means to many of us that someone from the PPro team is listening and helping.

                                                A bit of info to add to the mix. As I type this, my edit computer, running CS3, is capturing from an XL H1. I've created a new project, using the 24F preset from PPro 2, and so far everything that it has captured has come in at 23.976. And so far, everything looks okay. I've only done one tape of six, so we'll see how the rest of the night goes. Loading PPro 2 back on the machine is my fall back if things get screwy. I'll let you know how things go.

                                                BTW, the clip I posted I believe was from an Canon XH A1, not an XL H1 - not sure if there is a difference in how they work, but thought I'd let you know just in case...

                                                Thanks again! Looking forward to the 3.1.1 update...