10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 13, 2009 11:48 AM by Jim_Simon

    Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?

    spreeni Level 1
      hi all,

      I wondered all the time, why the preview of my sourceclips in DVCProHD 720p50 stutters and nearly looks like 720p25. I thought this was an issue of the 'new' preview function or any other new option of CS4.

      But now I recognized that exported clips to DVD interlaced (with HQ option) are stuttering the same way. I would have expected, that the 50 full-frames are converted to 50 half-frames, but ...no.

      I tried DVCProHD Clips in 1080i and ...guess what - preview looks fine, exported clips in DVD-Format are looking fine, too.

      So my question to everyone: Did anyone tested 720p50 in DVCProHD or any other format? Could there be a generally issue using clips with 50 (or 60) full-frames in Premiere Pro?

      Thanks for answers.

      spreeni
        • 1. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
          spreeni Level 1
          Nooene is working with progressive 50 or 60 Frames?
          • 2. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
            joshtownsend Level 2
            I use 24p, 24pa, 30p, 60p and variable frame rates. Never had a problem with 60p that I can think of but it was meant to look like TV, so I stuck it in a 24p timeline.

            Not sure why your having a problem, maybe give me sequence settings and input and output resolutions and render settings. Need more info to help you pin the problem down. I work with P2 nonstop but I have American version. Maybe you can put a small MXF file online. I'll try it.
            • 3. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
              spreeni Level 1
              Hi Josh,

              thanks for your answer. For project settings I use the template
              'DVCPRHD - 720p - DVCPROHD 720p 50p'.
              For exporting timeline into DVD-format I use the export template (for Adobe Media Encoder)
              'MPEG2-DVD - PAL-High Quality'
              All templates are used without changing. I uploaded a MXF-file (720p50) and its exported PAL-MPEG2 clip to a Zip-File under http://www.mir-studios.de/720p50-test.zip
              As you can see, the MPEG2-file ist stuttering very much, it made no difference if I use lower fild first (default), upper field or even progressive for export. The result always looks the same. Can you reproduce that with the test-clips?
              Thank you very much for taking your time to test this.

              spreeni
              • 4. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
                joshtownsend Level 2
                The m2v clip you send me played smooth in media player and VLC player. No stuttering.

                Also the MXF clip previewed fine prcs4.

                Sorry must some problem with you player maybe?
                • 5. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
                  spreeni Level 1
                  Thank you Josh for your feedback. Did you try to convert the mxf-file to a PAL DVD clip (575i), too? I always thought the 50 full-frames have to be converted to 50 half-frames for DVD-format to be a correct and smooth playable file. But on my system I always get something which looks like 25 full-frames, with those stuttering edges (no matter which field-order I choose). Would you be so kind and try this on your machine? To check this on another machine would be a big help for me.
                  spreeni
                  • 6. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
                    joshtownsend Level 2
                    yeah gimmi a little bit I'm going out to eat.... I doubt it would help though because the Mpeg you sent played as smooth as butter for me. No problems at all, looked fine.

                    Could you send me your project file? That might help a little more. Maybe you have a setting wrong. I don't know, why would the mpeg play fine for me but not for you?
                    • 7. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
                      joshtownsend Level 2
                      Ok your mpeg file you sent is 25p. No interlacing at all. When I export your clip as a PAL DVD I have no other choice but to create a 25p dvd. It looks fine when I render just like your clips does but it's 25p.

                      I haven't burned a dvd though and I don't know that much about PAL land, but I can't figure out how to encode a 50i or 50p DVD. It seems like the encoder sets it at 25 p and that's that. Maybe you should just shoot 25p anyway. Isn't that how it was done in UK all these years anyhow before DV?

                      Your and my dvd is dropping half the frames. For sure. But my best guess is it's the P2 DVCPRO codec. I think P2 cards never record true interlace just 60 full field frames (here in the US). I shot some 60i to make it look more like news but the footage came in progressive (even though the frame rate gave me the news 60i cadence I needed)
                      That's my best guess.
                      • 8. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
                        spreeni Level 1
                        Hi Josh,

                        yes this helps very much. And your right, PAL always uses 25 frames just like NTSC uses 30 frames. But every frame contains two seperate fields (first upper then lower etc.). That's the reason why PAL uses 25 frames BUT also 50 fields. Nowerdays this format isn't called 25 frames interlaced anymore, it's simply called 50i. 50 full-frames (50p) never have been possible in PAL.

                        Why do I explain this? The settings of Media Encoder (DVD PAL template) only allows 25 Frames which is standard in PAL. But by setting the field option (lower or upper) you set the correct field order to get a 50i clip (or so called 25 frames with interlaced fields). Setting this option to 'progressive' will make the encoder setting upper and lower field to the same picture which produces 25 full frames, or simply 25p.

                        So if you also got an MPEG file in no interlaced, I mean a real 25p Mpeg file, this would say, that Adobe Media Encoder can't devide 50 fullframes to 50 half frames.

                        So as long as the camera correctly records 50 fullframes in DVCProHD 720p50 (it plays smoothly in Windows Media Player) this must be a Premiere codec issue because it doesn't treats 50p source clips as it should. Perhaps I should do a test, exporting a 720p50 clip to 720p50 again and look, if it will play smoothly in Windows Media Player, too. If this would be the case, the issue is only in Adobe Encoder. I will stay you informed about this...

                        spreeni
                        • 9. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
                          spreeni Level 1
                          Hello,

                          I just wanted to add: Exported 720p50 clips into 720p50 again look the same way as the input files. So premiere handles p50 clips correct.

                          But exporting 720p50 to PAL DVD will not produce 50 half-frames, Adobe Media Encoder skips every second frame and renders clips as PAL progressive, no matter wich field order is choosed.

                          1080i50 source clips are handeled correctly.
                          • 10. Re: Anyone uses DVCPro HD 720p50 ?
                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                            >Nowerdays this format isn't called 25 frames interlaced anymore, it's simply called 50i.

                            That's a misnomer often used by camera companies. It should still be called 25i or 25p, listing only frames, never fields. (Fields is specified by the i or p designation. Saying "interlaced fields" is redundant, as fields can only be interlaced.)