38 Replies Latest reply on Mar 30, 2010 9:11 PM by shooternz

    OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?

    fredou_79 Level 1
      I've edited a long feature film in PPCS3, but now I find myself trapped in it trying to export sound.

      AAF export sucks and isn't compatible with anything excepts maybe VEGAS then exporting an OMF from it...

      I wanted to import my PPCS3 project in PPCS4 and export an OMF from there.

      I keep reading how buggy CS4 is so I wondered if it could hold the run while I import then export OMF from it for a 1 hour 40 minutes film (splitted into 10 project files).

      Also, my PPCS3 projects are in Cineform, so I can't just open them in PPCS4. How should I proceed ? Export AAFs then import them in PPCS4 (I don't like that propect with all the restriction AAF export has).

      Other idea I had was to import my CFHD projects into non-CFHD projects in PPCS3 (keeping only sound) then import those projects in PPCS4 and export AVI.

      The problem I see with this is that some of the sound comes from audio linked to CFHD files and won't work into PPCS4 unless I render them, but if I do, I will loose the leeway that margins are giving sound editor to do a good job, because only be what's in the cut will be available to them for editing.

      Thank you for your time and 9interest in my problem.

      Sincerely,

      Frédéric Leclair
        • 1. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
          joshtownsend Level 2
          Export AAF from CS3 into Sony Vegas then export your OMF. I just posted in the other thread before I read this here worked for me many times.
          • 2. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
            fredou_79 Level 1
            AAP export, gave me lot's of trouble, not exporting audio link to video files, not exporting effects and transitions.

            And having to go into VEGAS then reexport was quite clunky even if it worked.

            I'm
            • 3. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
              fredou_79 Level 1
              Anyone that tried OMF export with success or failure ?
              • 4. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                joshtownsend Level 2
                I just sent a few off to a mixing studio and haven't heard back about any problems....yet.
                • 5. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                  fredou_79 Level 1
                  I'm currently trying to export an OMF with PP4 and it keeps freezing midway and I've let it run 3-4 hours it's frozen there no appeal.

                  When I look into export folder of OMF it'S empty.

                  Anyone got that same bug withg OMF export ?
                  • 6. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                    fredou_79 Level 1
                    I'd read something about time remapped clip and that Premiere CS4 OMF can't export those. Could it be this that cause the problem ?
                    • 7. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                      fredou_79 Level 1
                      is there an easier way then checking each of my clips in my 1 hour 50 minutes timeline in effects panel to spot time remapped clips ?
                      • 8. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                        Curt Wrigley Level 4
                        If you did a static speed change the speed percentage is displayed at the top of the clip itself. If you used time remapping, the speed keyframes would be a givaway IF speed keyframes are what is being displayed as opposed to opacity or position. So, there isnt a full proof way I suppose.
                        • 9. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                          fredou_79 Level 1
                          I've went over all my clip to find time remapped ones and still can't export an OMF. It freezes in the middle of the export still, but this time my export folder has files in it.

                          I've check in the area where the xport was when it frozen and can't find anything that would do so.

                          Any ideas as to what could be cause?
                          • 10. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                            Eddie Lotter Level 4

                            Can you duplicate the problem in a new project?


                            Cheers
                            Eddie

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                            • 11. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                              fredou_79 Level 1
                              I'll see what I can do.

                              I'll try importing just sections of my timeline in other timelines to try and isolate buggy clips.
                              • 12. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                fredou_79 Level 1
                                I've tried exporting only the first 30 minutes of my timeline (after copy/pasting that portion into a new timeline in the same project).

                                I made 2 try, the first one exported successfully with no freeze, but when I saw that the log was full of errors with clips lenght I checked and found out I was in 23.976 fps.

                                When I made the second try in 29.97 fps of the same segment copy-pasted in a timeline with proper settings,it froze during export at 95%.

                                I tried another export with 10% less in the segment of timeline to see if it exported well. Result: the OMF exporter froze after only 12-15%. ME = ???

                                This makes me wonder if it isn't the OMF exporter that has a problem with 29.97 fps export instead of my project having problematic files...??
                                • 13. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                  Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                  OMF export is pretty new; so Im sure there are bugs. Ive heard users say it crashed when exporting a project with mono clips. I havnt duplicated it myself, but thought id pass that on.
                                  • 14. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                    shooternz Level 6
                                    Amazing - so many "professionals" on this site and no one knows if OMF actually works. eg an actual export to Protools .

                                    This was one of the most requested feature requests by "professionals" and 5 months (after CS4 release) later no one can/will confirm it actually works.

                                    I would have done the tests but CS4 Premiee was causing me other issues so I continued with my work around from CS3.
                                    • 15. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                      >Amazing - so many "professionals" on this site and no one knows if OMF actually works. eg an actual export to Protools. This was one of the most requested feature requests by "professionals" and 5 months (after CS4 release) later no one can/will confirm it actually works.

                                      I'm just curious. If it's that important, why didn't you follow through with testing it for yourself while you were using CS4? Surely you had a few minutes available before reverting to CS3?

                                      Then you could have provided some meaningful feedback to the rest of the forum.
                                      • 16. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                        fredou_79 Level 1
                                        Can I easily revert a sound only PP CS4 project to PP CS3 ?

                                        What would be the steps?
                                        • 18. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                          shooternz Level 6
                                          >I'm just curious. If it's that important, why didn't you follow through with testing it for yourself while you were using CS4? Surely you had a few minutes available before reverting to CS3?

                                          Then you could have provided some meaningful feedback to the rest of the forum.

                                          You are correct Jeff and I thought about doing so. In fact I did trial export a couple of projects to understand the primary work flow but at the time I had no reason to go and spend $2-300 per hour in a Dolby ProTools Suite to test the secondary part.

                                          To do the exercise now would mean duplicating a Project in both CS3 and CS4 so that I could actually get the job done as well as test CS4 OMF Export.

                                          Its still not out of the question that I could do it as a test.

                                          Time, time, time...

                                          BTW - I had OMF Export (Automatic Duck) working sucesfully in CS2 (and still do) but it was broken in CS3.
                                          • 19. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                            fredou_79 Level 1
                                            Anyone got a possible option to allow me to export my sound OMF or else from PP CS4 ?

                                            Maybe transfert it to another software to export...does Soundboot CS4 allow for OMF export? After Effects ? Other ?
                                            • 20. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                              fredou_79 Level 1
                                              Just did 2 test exports:

                                              - First was succesfesdul 4 track export on around 4:30 minutes.

                                              - Second was a single dialogue track of the whole 1h40m timeline
                                              which export well with no freeze but I got this error message at
                                              end:

                                              Information about the OMF export.
                                              OMF Export started.
                                              MZ 81020
                                              Make sure your Pro Tools settings match the export settings.
                                              Check below for error messages
                                              Sequence Zero Point is: 00:00:00:00
                                              ProTools Offset value is 0:0.000
                                              29.97 fps Drop Frame
                                              You can set this in Track Offset Options in Pro Tools.
                                              Initializing OMF Export
                                              81022

                                              Insufficient Source Media for this clip!
                                              Event Media length is not equal to Actual Media length!
                                              \\?\C:\OMF\OMF#2_~1\15e.b2.ce.aif

                                              The offset into the source file is 0 samples.
                                              The clip length is 192192 samples.
                                              That means we need 192192 samples in the source file.
                                              The media length is 192001 samples.
                                              The Reel name is: ""
                                              Audio 1
                                              Kalakuyuwish - line 5 - pr 1 (SHALL).wav
                                              01;14;33;19

                                              Insufficient Source Media for this clip!
                                              Event Media length is not equal to Actual Media length!
                                              \\?\C:\OMF\OMF#2_~1\15e.116.104.aif

                                              The offset into the source file is 581380 samples.
                                              The clip length is 129730 samples.
                                              That means we need 711110 samples in the source file.
                                              The media length is 710401 samples.
                                              The Reel name is: ""
                                              Audio 1
                                              human cry pain.wav
                                              01;37;51;17

                                              Exiting OMF Export.

                                              _______________________________________________________

                                              It says to me that clip has insuficient media, but I'm using copy entire file option and nopt the trim clip one. Also I checked to clip in timeline and no part of it is gray-lined to show media has ended and that part of the clip is longer then original media file..!?

                                              I plan to test all track like this to see if I can find a bug in one of the tracks.

                                              Could someone recompose whole project track per track if I was to export OMF for each tracks succesfully ?
                                              • 21. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                fredou_79 Level 1
                                                I've read in After Effects CS3 Render options that you can render out to OMF.

                                                Can you render out to OMF in AE CS4 from a PP CS4 project file ?
                                                • 22. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                  (pjletofsky) Level 1
                                                  I'm not familiar with CS4 OMF export yet, but I had a similar problem with Avid export. I did manage to isolate 5 problem clips (never understood what the problem was) but I rendered out and replaced the small audio sections/clips and got my final export. I also did an AAF version for my Pro Tools Sound designer.
                                                  Mine was a P2 project and the problem clips seemed to be from spanned cards not tracking the file names correctly...or that I had requested 120 frame handles that wasn't available.

                                                  Hope that helps, and keep us updated as this is a helpful thread.
                                                  • 23. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                    fredou_79 Level 1
                                                    I'm testing individual track for OMF export, and so far none freezed, but I keep getting this error message in export log:

                                                    Insufficient Source Media for this clip!
                                                    Event Media length is not equal to Actual Media length!
                                                    \\?\C:\OMF\TRACK1~1\1ea.375.fb.aif

                                                    The offset into the source file is 581380 samples.
                                                    The clip length is 129730 samples.
                                                    That means we need 711110 samples in the source file.
                                                    The media length is 710401 samples.

                                                    _______________________________________________________

                                                    It says to me that clips have insuficient media, but I'm using copy entire file option and not the trim clip one. Also I checked clips in timeline and no part of it is gray-lined to show media has ended and that part of the clip is longer then original media file..!?
                                                    • 24. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                      fredou_79 Level 1
                                                      Ok I've test all my project by exporting each of the track separatetly. It is a 16 audio tracks porject with no video at all.
                                                      Here are the results:

                                                      Track # Success # of insufficient % done
                                                      or source media for when export
                                                      Freezed clip reported froze

                                                      001 S 1 -
                                                      002 F - 95%
                                                      003 F - 45%
                                                      004 S 1 -
                                                      005 S - -
                                                      006 F - 30%
                                                      007 S - -
                                                      008 S - -
                                                      009 S - -
                                                      010 S - -
                                                      011 S - -
                                                      012 S - -
                                                      013
                                                      to 016 S 2 -
                                                      013
                                                      to 016
                                                      (rendered
                                                      & replaced) S - -

                                                      _______________________________________________________________

                                                      Most of the successfull tracks were the one with less footage (less probabilities to have problematic clip maybe). I don't think it's a direct link since track 007 was fairly large and completed successfully.

                                                      So that leaves us with 3 out 16 track with export problem, butthey are the ones containing most of my clips (circa 75%).

                                                      Regarding export 13 to 16 I bundled the export and it worked well but track where very light with mostly long clip of music; only one cause problem in first export but wwhen I rendered and replaced it from MP3 to WAV it didn't; undow export had been completed in both case, the rend & rep one had no "Insufficient Source Media for this clip!" message in log.

                                                      I also tried exporting track 004 in encapsulated format, but I had the Insufficient Source Media for this clip! message still, exactly as the separate audio export.

                                                      I dig the 3 problematic tracks to find what may be causing bug and will investigate "Insufficient Source Media for this clip!" clips to to what's up. I think that for those it is a format issue; some are AIF so a divergence of format from WAV clips may be the bug.

                                                      I 'll keep this forum posted.
                                                      • 25. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                        fredou_79 Level 1
                                                        TAB seems to have lost it's format on last post sorry about this I'll try reposting tab when I have time.
                                                        • 26. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                          joshtownsend Level 2
                                                          My OMF files are working. I shoot with HVX200 dvcpro HD so I have to convert every audio clip recorded in camera to a .wav using 'render and replace to Audition (or soundbooth).

                                                          If forget to convert one of the files to WAV then the OMF screws up.

                                                          Probably not your problem just letting you that a whole feature film worth of OMF from Premiere is working fine...so far.
                                                          • 27. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                            fredou_79 Level 1
                                                            Ok here's again the tab:

                                                            So track description goes like this:

                                                            Track #
                                                            Success or Freezed
                                                            # of insufficient source media for clip reported
                                                            % done when export froze

                                                            001,S,1,-

                                                            002,F,-,95%

                                                            003,F,-,45%

                                                            004,S,1,-

                                                            005,S,-,-

                                                            006,F,-,30%

                                                            007,S,-,-

                                                            008,S,-,-

                                                            009,S,-,-

                                                            010,S,-,-

                                                            011,S,-,-

                                                            012,S,-,-

                                                            013 TO 16,S,2,-
                                                            013 TO 16 (rendered & replaced),S,-,-
                                                            • 28. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                              fredou_79 Level 1
                                                              Yes, I'm aware of the tape audio needing to be rendered & replaced.
                                                              All tape clips have been rendered & replaced after all video has been removed from this project to keep it audio only.

                                                              ________________________________

                                                              I'm going to analyse each track and clips that cause trouble and post how I fixed each one of them.
                                                              • 29. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                fredou_79 Level 1
                                                                Ok out of 3 clips that had insufficient source media for clip reported in export log- all have been fixed by rendering & replacing it.

                                                                1 was MP3
                                                                1 was a time remapped clip I had missed
                                                                1 was a normal wav mono (don't know why it bugged)

                                                                Will post more on 3 tracks that freeze on export.
                                                                • 30. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                  fredou_79 Level 1
                                                                  Do audio fades and cross-fade make OMF export crash?

                                                                  I fixed 1 of the 3 tracks by removing 2 keyframes in volume control that were on in 2 clips, even if those were at volume 100% it made that track bug.
                                                                  • 31. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                    fredou_79 Level 1
                                                                    As explained in this thread I fragmented my export to only the 2 tracks that freezed, in trying to narrow down bug.

                                                                    http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/890990

                                                                    In this link I read that a guy was having problem with longer sequence export cause of RAM issue, so when he fragmented export it worked well.

                                                                    When I fragmented my 1h50m timeline into 3 export (only the 2 tracks that froze), I was able to export all 3 successfully.

                                                                    But it's something that didn't worked when I first tried this with all my tracks.

                                                                    I'm retrying fragmented full tracks export.
                                                                    • 32. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                      fredou_79 Level 1
                                                                      Fragmenting problematic tracks made the trick it was a RAM issue as described in link; I had to reboot PRemiere between export to have memory fresh and cleared for each export or it would crash.

                                                                      I hope it helps others that encounter this bug, but new PP4 update will probably resolve this sine it's supposed "to give back memory after use".
                                                                      • 33. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                        digabyte Level 1

                                                                        Short answer... NO.

                                                                         

                                                                        We are in post on a feature film shot on RED with all audio recorded 48Khz, 24bit, mono to a separate digital multi-track.

                                                                         

                                                                        I edited the film (broken down into five 20 minute reels) in Premiere CS4.1 on an i7 950@3.07GHz running Win7 Ultimate 64bit with 12GB RAM and a RAID array with read/write times in excess of 800MB/s (over mini-SAS).  I'm trying to export OMF for our audio engineer to import into Pro Tools for final surround mix.

                                                                         

                                                                        He was "sort of" able to import the first two reels (oddly, the longest reels), but 3, 4 and 5 failed miserably.  By "sort of" I mean that most of the clips were present and in the right place, but quite a few were missing or corrupt.  We have had to resort to exporting full track wav's out of Premiere for the final three reels, but obviously this leaves no handles on individual clips for our sound guy to work with, so the length of each clip out of Premiere is final (unacceptable).

                                                                         

                                                                        I am currently trying to trouble shoot the issue (exporting OMF's and trying to import into Sonar Producer 8.5), but the OMF file crashes Sonar every time.

                                                                         

                                                                        For what it's worth, here's the log report:

                                                                        OMF Export started.
                                                                        MZ 81110
                                                                        Make sure your Pro Tools settings match the export settings.
                                                                        Check below for error messages
                                                                        Sequence Zero Point is:  00:00:00:00
                                                                        ProTools Offset value is 0:0.000
                                                                        23.98 fps
                                                                        You can set this in Track Offset Options in Pro Tools.
                                                                        Initializing OMF Export
                                                                           81022
                                                                        Failure opening file:
                                                                        \\?\E:\FINALS~1\OMF03\REEL_0~1\
                                                                        Failure opening file:
                                                                        \\?\E:\FINALS~1\OMF03\REEL_0~1\
                                                                        Failure opening file:
                                                                        \\?\E:\FINALS~1\OMF03\REEL_0~1\
                                                                        Exiting OMF Export.

                                                                         

                                                                        I'm not sure what the "failure opening file" language is all about, but the process is definitely not working.  All the AIF files are generated and present in the audio folder, but the OMF cannot be opened in either Pro Tools or Sonar.

                                                                        • 34. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                          shooternz Level 6

                                                                          You will note that earlier in this thread I mentioned that in CS2 I had a plug in from Automatic Duck that exported a perfect OMF that was easily opened in Protools. It was broken when CS3 came out and of course never worked for CS4.

                                                                           

                                                                          Great pity because it was very handy at the time. ( or so I thought)

                                                                           

                                                                          When it stopped working  it basically it meant a change to my workflow and I now kind of wonder how important OMF actually is /was... in an editor to audio engineer workflow.

                                                                           

                                                                          Now , I export every track of audio as a .wav (with a synch mark at the head of each - 2 pip on the smpte leader ).

                                                                           

                                                                          These are dragged into ProTools and there are no issues whatsoever.

                                                                           

                                                                          Sometimes the old ways are the easy ways.

                                                                          • 35. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                            digabyte Level 1

                                                                            Hi, and thanks for responding.

                                                                             

                                                                            This is only useful if sound is completely finished in Premiere, as the tracks you are exporting don't have handles for the individual clips (thus the sound engineer can make no changes to the clips, only the entire track).

                                                                             

                                                                            In a professional workflow it is necessary to export the individual clips that go with each video clip, preferably with rather lengthy handles on the audio, so the engineer can fade in and out the heads and tails of each clip to smooth dialog, background noise, etc.

                                                                             

                                                                            As I mentioned, we actually ended up doing the "full track export" initially for reels 3, 4 and 5, but since the editor was not the sound designer, he didn't spend a whole lot of time smoothing out ins and outs of dialog clips, etc. so the full length tracks are not as we would want them (perfect!).

                                                                             

                                                                            Thus we are still looking for a method to get clips into Pro Tools.  You'd think AAF might be the solution, but it doesn't work out of Premiere either.

                                                                            • 36. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                              shooternz Level 6

                                                                              I totally agree about the handles and when it matters I go through the process of extending the audio clips to accomodate this in a duplicate sequence.

                                                                               

                                                                              Luckily I do nor have to do that too often. Being a bit old school...I am well used to Chequer boarding audio (and video).

                                                                               

                                                                              Other little thing about OMF was Protools changed their "protocol" at a certain point and this also made things kind of difficult in a workflow.

                                                                               

                                                                              Whatever happened to "Standards".

                                                                              • 37. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                                joshtownsend Level 2

                                                                                OMF files have been kind of a pain for me. They need lots of free ram to even finish and it took us a bunch of tries to get it working with Pro Tools and the OMF plug-in.  I wasn't there so I don't know the what the exact problem was.

                                                                                 

                                                                                There is a lack of info about Premiere and OMF files because not many Pro people cut in Premiere. Right now I'm working on getting files into Logic and having problems but I'm still in trying things out. Here in Jacksonville Florida I can't find a single person with the OMF plug-in for Pro-Tools, nobody needs it in the town I guess the plug-in is expensive as hell.

                                                                                • 38. Re: OMF export DOES IT WORKS WELL?
                                                                                  shooternz Level 6

                                                                                  Its just one of hese "new fangled thangs" that should work but dont with out extra effort.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Thats why I posted what I did.  Its not a show stopper but would be great if it worked perfectly in a perfect world.