28 Replies Latest reply on Feb 27, 2009 9:43 PM by shooternz

    Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing

      Hello, I recently decided to start doing HD animation rather then SD animation. I'm working with Cinema 4D and rendering out 720p 30fps Tiff sequences and then importing the sequences into premiere. But the playback in premiere is very choppy and its making it very difficult to lipsync. When I render them they come out perfect, its only the editing that is choppy. I have all my programs installed onto the C: drive which is a 80gb western digital raptor and all my tiff sequences and stuff on another drive which is a sata 3.0gbs drive. I don't have a raid setup because I like to format and start fresh again every 6 months or so and I wouldn't want to format both drives each time. But here are the rest of my specs:

      Core 2 Quad 2.4 ghz (not overclocked or anything)
      Windows XP Professional w/ Service Pack 3 (32 bit, not 64)
      4 Gig DDR2 Ram (of course, XP only sees 3.25)
      Geforce 8800 GTS 640MB video card
      Asus Maximus Motherboard

      any ideas? My last xp fresh install was a few days before valentines day, but the choppiness was there before the install as well. thanks in advance!
        • 1. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
          Jim_Simon Level 8
          Usually when something plays back choppy unrendered, but smooth when rendered, it's a sign that your system just can't handle the unrendered playback.
          • 2. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
            don solomon Level 1
            Why would you install all your programs on C? That normally will just slow all your apps down. Where are your pagefile and scratch disks set? Not on C, I hope.
            • 3. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
              Jim_Simon Level 8
              >Why would you install all your programs on C?

              Most people do. It's pretty much standard practice across the computer industry.
              • 4. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                don solomon Level 1
                Jim,

                All our techs have set machines up that way for a long time. They claim our productivity apps will run faster that way. In addition, it speeds up our backups because Acronis does not have to contend with bulk in C doing its daily backup. disk defrags go much faster, less slowdowns as a result. Our program partitions are backed up daily with Vice Versa to external drives without compression.

                And, most importantly, our workhorse NLE, Edius Pro 5, warns users in the install interface to NOT put it on C, because it will slow it down.

                So, I guess it is not an industry standard. :)
                • 5. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                  Harm Millaard Level 7
                  Still using last centuries approaches is no standard either. Who in their right mind would still use partitions?
                  • 6. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                    don solomon Level 1
                    Harm,

                    Enlighten us, master :) A generalization as large as that needs justification, of course. You wouldn't want us to just take it on faith that we should never partition.

                    I suspect that virtually every user on this forum, except perhaps you, partitions their drives, especially the large drives most of us now use, for a number of solid system and workflow efficiency related reasons. Very small boot drives are an understandable exception. Please tell us why we shouldn't ever partition, in terms that will improve our editing workflow with PPro, of course. We don't want this to get too OT.
                    • 7. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                      Don,

                      I'll start off with quoting Greig, who explained it nicely:

                      > When you partition, the system still has to read and write to the same physical disk, which takes time. If you split the tasks between 2 or more disks, it's like sending a crew into the grocery, with a separate crew member and grocery cart for each aisle. This, as opposed to one person with one cart, is more efficient and thus faster

                      There is one additional complication in that the OS need to read the partition table each time it accesses another partition, so to continue on Greig's example, you are alone doing the shopping, you consult your shopping list and you have to go to the info booth to get directions to the next aisle for the next item on your list. This is comparable to consulting the partition list. Doing this alone instead of with a team will take much more time, drag you down and you will come home pretty tired. Same for a partitioned disk, the heads will have to move from file location to partition table to the next file location and so on. Skipping the partition table will result in much faster operation and much less wear and tear.
                      • 8. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                        shooternz Level 6
                        Harm -
                        I have removed a partition from a C: drive. (XP32)
                        It now shows as 'unallocated.' 360gb

                        Have I solved the problem or do I need to do more?
                        • 9. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                          don solomon Level 1
                          Harm,

                          Good explanation, and the point about not having programs in a separate partition on the same physical drive is important. Mine are on a partition on a separate disk, and have been for years.

                          But there are other good reasons to partition. Defragging and optimizing unpartitioned drives of any size is a major time consuming headache. Data backup and management are another in many cases. Separate partitions for pagefile yet another, etc.

                          All this depends on the system use and appropriate drive sizes, obviously. If I was running a workstation strictly dedicated to a single task, with only a couple of related productivity apps, an internal data drive, and an external raid array, where disk access frequency was high and timing was critical, your approach would likely be appealing. Production editing images dependent on endless I/Os from a DB would be one example.

                          As it is, I'm not on a dedicated workstation, and, as I said before, my NLE being on C would cost me a lot more in workflow slowdown with Edius than I would gain in a partitionless environment. MMV. of course.
                          • 10. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                            >Mine are on a partition on a separate disk, and have been for years.

                            I won't comment on it's workability, I'm just saying that doing so is not the norm. Windows default location for installation is in the Programs folder, which is always on C: unless manually moved.

                            >I suspect that virtually every user on this forum, except perhaps you, partitions their drives

                            Oh, God no. That's just a bad idea.

                            >If I was running a workstation strictly dedicated to a single task

                            Which is the recommended practice for users in this forum.
                            • 11. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                              > Defragging and optimizing unpartitioned drives of any size is a major time consuming headache

                              I emphatically disagree. I use PerfectDisk. I ran it once manually after I installed the OS and my mission-critical apps. I run an offline defrag once a month. Otherwise, it's idle-time defrag operates on my 160 GB system drive in minutes, not hours or even tens-of-minutes.

                              I have 2x 1 TB RAID-0 disk arrays for my media, projects and render files, and a 1 TB SATA drive for my other data. I schedule a full defrag/optimization pass for those drives twice a week. The last scheduled defrag took 51 minutes for all 3 drives, which included over 400 GB of data swimming around in about 2.6 TB of free space.

                              None of my big drives are partitioned. My Vista64 system drive, is a 160 GB partition on a 320 GB drive. The other partition is a hidden dual-boot partition where I keep XP32 SP3. The "offline" dual-boot partition is hidden by GAG Bootloader before either OS ever sees it.

                              Completely painless.
                              • 12. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                Harm Millaard Level 7
                                Craig,

                                Sorry to disappoint you but what you need to do is make a backup or image of your drive to another disk, then reformat the existing disk and make it a simple volume using all available space and then restore the backup or image. That is the only sensible way to regain those 360 GB of space that are currently unallocated.
                                • 13. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                  shooternz Level 6
                                  Wondering ...do I need to regain the unallocated space at all?

                                  The c: drive is still 120gb (esata- 7200rpm)
                                  • 14. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                    Harm Millaard Level 7
                                    Not necessarily, but it is wasted at the moment. OTOH 120 GB is usually sufficient for a boot disk.

                                    In my system I opted for a 150 GB boot disk, since anything bigger would be a waste of space. I currently have 1 boot disk for OS/programs, a raid0 (2x250) for pagefile/scratch and rendered files and an 8 disk raid30 (8x1TB) for media and projects, plus some external backup FW drives and a 12 TB NAS and 7 mapped drives on a server. For the time being I can get along with that storage.
                                    • 15. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                      Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant
                                      It is interesting that while the conventional way of using the C: drive for programs or the unconventional way of using another drive for the programs, that unless you go out of the way you are encoding with AME from a copy of the data on the C: drive.

                                      Harm, with all your drives what are you using as your source drive for AME?
                                      • 16. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                        don solomon Level 1
                                        Jeff,

                                        Contexts differ. Fast, effective workflow is my standard, not, as Jim suggests what the norm is on this forum. The only useful norm is the one that you consciously design to meet your workflow requirements.

                                        I have two 35 gig boot partitions on a dual boot system using two 320 gig separate physical drives that I defrag weekly in about 3 minutes each.

                                        I also use Perfect disk set to smart placement, and the time it takes to do the most recent used partition on each of two sata 2 7200 terabyte drives( each has three 300+ gig partitions) is far less than doing the whole drive each time. I generally use one partition for each pending project, and, thus, my very regular defragging takes far less time than if I had three projects on a single drive without partitions and had to do the whole drive just to defrag the current project I'm working. Backups are equally easier and faster.

                                        Another 500 gig Sata 2 drive has a DB with image previews and metadata for roughly 120,000 photographic images in it in it. (I do both photography and video for a living.) If that wasn't in a separate partition, it would take forever to defrag that--SQlite DBs produce a folder for each image in them, and move, copy, and defrag at a snail's pace, relatively speaking. I only do that as required, but if it was buried in with 300 gigs of other data on a single drive it would be completely inefficient and slow to have to do the DB when it did not require it, along with data that did.

                                        My configuration is fast. My file management and backup system is streamlined. I use a fast programs, and have no discernable slowness in my workflow, and that, in the end is what counts. Workflows differ, and configurations differ with them. There is no standard solution to hard drive configuration and data management.
                                        • 17. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                          >I generally use one partition for each pending project, and, thus, my very regular defragging takes far less time than if I had three projects on a single drive without partitions and had to do the whole drive just to defrag the current project I'm working. <br /><br />Ewwww!  That's too much work for me!  And it's on a daily basis, too. Maybe hourly - ick!<br /><br /><begin thought bubble>Let's see, which project did I put on which partition?  Where are those media files?  Did I match the media partition to this project's partition, or is it still pointing to last week's project partition?  Which one needs to be defragged tonight?<end thought bubble><br /><br />Defragging my entire drive twice or once a week seems a lot less organizationally-intensive to me.  You have to realize that I have trouble matching media folders on D: to project folders on E:.  But hey - I'm 51 years old and maybe your memory is a lot better than mine! :)<br /><br />Also, I'm at the point in my life where easier is better.  I'm quite comfortable with the fact that my laziness governs my life. ;)<br /><br />You know what?  If it works for you, then more power to you.  Really.  I know that what works for me won't always work for someone else, and that what works for you may not work for me.  The important thing is that you get your stuff done on-time and that you end up with happy customers.  All with as little pain to yourself as possible.<br /><br />I like hearing new ideas - it might be the one thing I learn today. :)<br /><br />-Jeff<br /><br />PS - Did I read that you use Acronis for backup?  If so, please check out <b><a href="http://www.storagecraft.com/products/ShadowProtectServer/"target=_blank>ShadowProte ct</a></b> from StorageCraft.  It's made my backup life a whole lot easier.  I switched from Acronis.  (NB: I still use Acronis for my family computers.)
                                          • 18. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                            don solomon Level 1
                                            Jeff,

                                            Hey, I never run from a new idea, or tool, and these forums are the best place to find them.

                                            The secret to managing partitions, by the way, is to name them as well as giving them a Letter--and keep a block diagram pinned to a corkboard for insurance, and use Total Commander to navigate them rather than Explorer. :) Since they are my constant companions--and usually friends--I remember their names and where they live most of the time :)

                                            I do use Acronis. Thanks for the tip. I'm always looking for better tools than I have.
                                            • 19. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                              Harm Millaard Level 7
                                              Bill,

                                              Source for AME is the Raid30.
                                              • 20. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                                joshtownsend Level 2
                                                Thanks for bringing up Total Commander. I saw in a tutorial but when you mentioned it I downloaded it. WOW. So much faster better than Vista windows explorer. Although the Win 7 explorer is close to this.

                                                Thanks.
                                                • 21. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                  josh,

                                                  If you like TC, just wait 'til you get a load of Directory Opus :)
                                                  • 22. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                                    don solomon Level 1
                                                    Jeff,

                                                    I was once a DO user, but haven't seen it for several years--damn, another app to re-evaluate! :)
                                                    • 23. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                      >damn, another app to re-evaluate!

                                                      I do what I can.
                                                      • 24. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                                        don solomon Level 1
                                                        Jeff,

                                                        Directory Opus also triggered vivid memories of making a living with Video Toasters on Amigas, where I first used DO--and that unfortunately led me to remember paying $450 for one of the first Seagate 20 gig drives!

                                                        Enough! :)
                                                        • 25. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                                          Andy Urtu Level 1
                                                          Craig to get your 360gb back...

                                                          Get a copy of partition magic and have it resize the partion back to full size.
                                                          • 26. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                                            shooternz Level 6
                                                            Thanx Andy. Will take a look at Partition Magic
                                                            • 27. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                                              Level 1
                                                              Take a look at Paragon Partition Manager Express as well. It is their free version and will size and move partitions. It works!
                                                              • 28. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 720P Choppy Editing
                                                                shooternz Level 6
                                                                Thanx to you also Mark.

                                                                If I had done the prcedure correctly, I could have achieved this just by using XP32. (Manage>Disk Management)

                                                                I deleted the partion one step too early. DOh! (Thats me...bull at a bloody gate sometimes)