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An AP_ has _een put out for the missing "_"
US_ external drives are not sanctioned for premiere. That they work for you is wonderful, _ut do know that your performances could _e much _etter, using internal drives for video (even 1394 is _etter/faster than US_).
As for the file locations, you should only have to point to each folder once; when the second round comes around you can escape and the project will still open. If you find yourself choosing the same folder, something is wrong with your setup.
Moving project files is always a pain; _etter initial project planning is a real time saver.
>tell me I'm stupid and there's a super simple way of dealing with this major pain
Keep everything on internal drives. Only edit on one computer.
If you forgot the original drive letter, open the prproj in notepad and search for filepath. Keep clicking next and you'll eventually come up with the original drive letter. Change the drive letter back to the original and everything will open like it posed 2.
Take a Sharpie and write the drive letter on the outside of drive.
If you are going to use an external drive, buy a case and put a Sata 2 in it. Or, if you are still running ATA drives, use one of those (if your mobo will accomdate it). USB is very safe stuff, but pitlessly slow and not recognized by every app for direct offline editing.
Firwewire 400 is barely faster than USB2. Firewire 800 is fast enough for sure, but requires diligent caution. Hot plugging and unplugging, even though claimed as possible, can be dangerous. Boot and shut down with FW plugged in, and not on--or run the risk of losing data and, potentially, drives.
"If you forgot the original drive letter, open the prproj in notepad and search for filepath."
or 'search and replace' for big projects it's way faster.
Love the title "Why is Premiere so dum"!!!!! No offense brotha
Once you do find out what drive letter was assigned (where Premiere is looking for the Assets), set that drive letter for that drive in your OS - Disk Management. If you move the drive about, between different computers, set it in each computer's OS. Once set, every time you plug it in, Windows will assign that unique drive letter. If you have a lot of external peripherals, I'd unplug all but your external first. Assign the drive letter to it. Then, work up with your other peripherals.
If you do not find the drive letter, Premiere is pretty smart, with "finding" your Assets, if you start it in the right direction. When you Open your Project and it says, "hey, where'd all those DV-AVI's go?" you can locate the first (in an particular folder), and it will go through that folder to gather/link to the rest. If you have an intricate folder structure, you'll have to do this for each folder.
Now, if you have done a Save, after choosing Offline All, you will then need to manually re-link each Asset, or find an AutoSave version, before you did the Save with Offline All chosen.
Remember, set that drive's letter in your OS, or you'll repeat this process, depending on what else might be plugged in that day.
PS, I use a series of 2TB externals for Projects, that I swap between my workstation and my laptop. Each drive has a unique drive letter, that is the same for the OS on each, i.e. Z:\, Y:\, X:\, W:\, you get the picture. Regardless of where I plug it in, it's always, say Z:\.
This guy is not even computer literate and called Premiere Dum. You have to apologise and next time educate yourself before making any illiterate rants
Thanks for all your positive comments.
Yes, in the utopian universe I'd have x6 2TB 15,000RPM drives internally but find external USB drives far more flexible (I have more than one computer sys etc).
Unfortunately, it seems I am right though, Premiere needs to be prodded to each and every asset folder location (so sub-dividing all my assets by type etc. doesn't make this process any easy).
Yet another tiresome, un-necessary, computer based, hoop jumping exercise forced on the user that only serves to irritate and stifle creativity!! (WHY?)
Your comments have led me to the thought of assigning the USB drives with letters well up the alphabet sequence (ie. W, X, Y etc.), so avoiding problems with adding further optical drives and/or internal drives.
Good call folks
All other questions and responses aside for a moment. Do you (or anyone else) find USB drives fast enough to edit big projects with CS4 without observable slowdown? have you done a comparison between a project solely on internal drives and one on an external USB?
Just looking for other users' experience--I've been testing a trial version. Maybe CS4 is slow enough itself that using USB externals is perfectly adequate--and it is slow in comparisons to, say, Edius 5, for example, which I now use. I'd test it myself, but I have only firewire 800 and Sata 2 externals anymore.
USB drives will only edit DV fast enough. e-sata is the way to go. Just as fast as internals.
That was my intuitive guess. I do use only eSATA2 drives for externals for NLE work.
I used to use FW800s, but had a nasty experience with one of those sending some dirty juice back down the circuit to fry my camera dv port, plus it killed the data on another FW800 drive. An expensive $500 lesson in the inherent dangers of firewire I/O. Now I use the 800s only for passive storage and only have one FW device on at a time.
> "...and only have one FW device on at a time..."
Good advice. Although,
they are not supposed to interact, I, too, have found strange things can happen, particularly, (predictably), during the power on/off times.
I don't have any huge issues with external drives speed wise. As with ALL computing experiences to date NOTHING is ever fast enough. In fact I've had instances where having a whole project on an external drive has been a life saver.
Sorry no experience with CS4 (did buy and install the update from CS3 but gave up when the brick wall known only as "Media Exported" was reached!! - still waiting for this issue to be fixed).
As is suggested get the fastest option you can use.
As for the USB externals, I found that they barely worked (read "adequately fast") under Pinnacle Studio 9.4.3. The transfer rate was at the minimum. I gave up trying to use them. Also, FW externals were coming out then.
I still use the FW-800 drives to edit to/from, if I am going to be lugging between computers. For SD-only work, these have proved fine. Yes, the internals on the workstation are faster, but FW-800's get the job done, when I need the portability. I do think that Josh's suggetion of eSATA would be even better, but I already have an investment in the FW drives, and they work - for now.
Using USB's, I would suggest that you NOT use any hubs, or similar, and try to use only USB ports that have a separate controller chip. Also, keep any other USB devices off of that chip. If you use many other USB devices, a mouse, a keyboard, a printer, a tablet, etc., and are committed to USB externals, I'd strongly suggest a multi-port card with multi-controller chips, just for your drive(s). That will get the most out of the externals and reduce the number of conflicts. These cards are inexpensive and all you need is an open PCI bus. Do not know if they are available in PCIe, but would guess they are and that might get a touch more speed.
I found that I had to wait for everything with USB's, and ended up drinking too much coffee in the process. That did not help my patience one bit.
Hope that the drive letter assignation helps. I could not fathom trying to work without it, as I hate having to re-link media and also use many sub-folders in my layout. PP will only "find" files within the same folder, and then it gets lost again. Lotta' *******' work, and I try to save myself FROM work.
Good luck, and let us know how the USB's work for you. How they worked, or didn't, for me is moot. It's YOUR workflow that counts.
"I found that I had to wait for everything with USB's, and ended up drinking too much coffee in the process. That did not help my patience one bit."
The trouble we have had with external USB drives, relate to Windows assigning different drive letters, and XP getting glitchy when you plug too many USB drives into one computer. Glitchy is putting it mildly. Sometimes MFT's get scrambled and we've had to use recovery software like GetDataBack for NTFS. We never had a problem with USB's related directly to editing standard def though. Panasonic P2 1080i is of course a different story.
Coffee left on the burner for more than several minutes results a change in the chemistry that can contribute to shortness of patience. My wife taught me how to make a good cup of coffee. You won't regret if you follow this.
Go to StarBucks and buy a bag of Cafe' Verona and purchase a coffee grinder. Always grind your coffee fresh. Clean out your coffee maker with 1/2 white vinegar and 1/2 water. Afterwards run water through a couple of times.
Make your pot. Tell me if that doesn't make the best cup of coffee ever. The stuff you buy brewed by StarBucks doesn't cut it in my opinion.
It was about this point that I began assigning the constant drive letter, but with USB, you do need (most of the time) to use the same exact USB port for that drive.* For me, the biggest problem was the data transfer rate. I just could not live with the lags - hence the coffee.
I did have one shutdown with an Export TO USB, but that could also have been a heat issue. It was about the time that I started using FW-400s and things were far better. As soon as the FW-800's hit, things got real nice, indeed.
Now, I was using my espresso machine to do a full cup (well, it only filled my mug about 1/3 of the way). I'd froth the milk and come back to find that I could edit for a bit, then the lag, then the espresso, and so on. I also found that I did not have the best telephone-manners, when this was happening.
Yes, we like the Cafe Verona. Wife does the decaf, and I found that if I ground that, rather than my normal French dark roast caffinated, my patience was better. [Grin]
* forgot that point, earlier on. Use the same exact USB for that drive. Been so long since I've used USB's I forgot. Thanks Charles!
So you want me to apologise becauce I told you that you are doing something wrong? Any forum with a moderator would have ban you. Okay I am sorry for being too harsh on you it was uncalled for, now that I see where you are coming from. But next time don't say PPro is dum(b) because some of us have been using it for years. We know the software is okay but the user is another thing. Maybe it's genetics on your part too to pass blame instead of learning. External drives are for back-ups and file transfer, and not for editing. Even an external SATA drive is dangerous.
In this case you were changing the drives around confusing the system using a, b, c, ...z. Try and do things right as we are here to help each other and just watch your language.
OK, nice coffee tip. I'll check this out (but I've been on decaff for years now!!) Don't you just love where some threads end up!
Apologies for the subtilty of the thread title. My spelling was obviously completely lost on some people!!
OK, external USB drive use is probably not what Adobe intended but I must say I've not had any real issues with them. Not used FW drives so can't comment on these. (I'm using a PC based rig). Although I'm recording and importing in HD, to date everything is being rendered out at SD quality/resolution.
Back on track thought is my real issue with the way Premiere handles re-linking project files (even if they are of my own doing!!). Just dum(b)founded with the tediousness of the process.
I see there are now no quick fixes or solutions and I will just have to bite the bullet with any project re-loads/re-links.
Thanks anyway for all your contributions
Although external USB drives are nice, and convenient, watch out if you are rendering, I have many external drives, and from time to time, they will time out - you'll get an error that the drive has lost connection for some reason ( using the USB cable ) , this doesn't happen very often, but it does occur, and can happen.
The other thing - many external drives offer an eSata option, if possible use this - it is 1000x faster than USB, and even FireWire800.
it's like using an internal drive.
I would personally use internal drives to do my editing and rendering, and then move it to an external drive later on.
We have 39+ external drives packed with files in our office. Some of the newer ones have E-Sata. There are advantages to external USB drives for standard def video. For instance, we do a lot of live corporate events. On show site, you can easily pass drives around and hook them up to laptops or desktops if budget allows. This is cheap insurance against things like motherboard failure.
At a recent live event, we did something shocking. We recorded four 7 hour days of video presentation to disk. We fed the show through a switcher, then to two Sony DSR-1800's One of the decks recorded everything to DV Cam. Each of the two decks outputted via Firewire to a computer which recorded live to External drives connected to the two computers via USB!!! Our pre test indicated no dropped frames related to the USB Drives.
The two computers successfully recorded roughly 28 hours to disk without any issues related to USB drives. We didn't need to go to the DV cam backup.
The only issue I had was with one computer that dropped frames even when capturing to its internal drive. I still haven't resolved the issue, but I'm thinking the solution may call for a very large hammer.
Realize that editing often involves reading multiple streams of video and writing preview files simultaneously. This is much more IO intensive than writing a single video stream to disk. USB is far from ideal for editing.
> but I must say I've not had any real issues with [external USB drives]
Then what is the purpose of this thread?
he thinks that he can plug in a usb drive into a computer and premiere is supposed to magically know where all the files are even though his drive letter has changed and his files are in different folders. that makes it (him) dum(b)? by the way, nothing personal.
Phil - so ideally when opening a project file - which you've just told Premiere where it is . . . (with all the project assets in subfolders of this file location) . . you would not prefer Premiere to be able to automatically open the project without any hassle? (unless of course an asset is actually missing).
It must go along with your own rudeness as well, but for me I can't think of another program that forces me to perform this tedious task.
I use Digidesign Protools, Autodesk 3D studiomax etc etc. quite happily without this isssue.
All I am trying to say is that if Premiere was more file location aware this would/should be transparent to the user even if they do move projects around from one location to another.
This can be a double-edged sword. D:\Media\Audio\soundbed_1 is, to a computer, a different file than K:\Media\Audio\soundbed_1. If Pr automatically assumed they were the same based on the project file's relative location, then it would make moving the project around easier. But if the project file isn't where it's supposed to be because, for example, a copy of it from another folder was accidentally opened, then that assumption would be a recipe for disaster.
That's why Pr asks you where the files are when the project is opened and Pr can't find them where they were located when the project was saved. Once you point Pr to the first file, it should then find the rest. There are certain media types (XDCAM comes to mind) where Pr is, as yet, unable to locate all files based on a single file reference. What is the format of your media?
Overall, CS4 is better at this than CS3. By keeping your cache files next to your media files (this option is set in Preferences>Media) it should eliminate the re-conforming and re-indexing every time project files are moved from computer to computer.
Thanks for your reply. Good to know that there IS a good reason to wait until CS4 is fixed and re-install.
As I have stated before I am telling Premiere where the project file is and on what drive (and I put ALL the subfolders with this file).
Sounds like Premiere CS4 has caught up with the likes of Protools that has all the session/cache files automatically linked to sub folders in the same location.
>you would not prefer Premiere to be able to automatically open the project without any hassle?
In this type of situation, no. I often have more than one file called Ceremony 01.avi on my hard drive. In order for the Project to be using the correct file, I really need to tell it which one it should be using if it ever forgets. I'd not want Premiere to just assume that.
>Sounds like Premiere CS4 has caught up with the likes of Protools that has all the session/cache files automatically linked to sub folders in the same location.
It's not quite that elegant, yet. Right now, they're literally kept next to the media files. So if you sorted the files in your Audio folder by name in Windows Explorer, you'd have soundbed_1.pek, soundbed_1.wav and soundbed_1.xmp one right after the other in the list.
Your example, post 23, is a good one, and should be worth noting. I inherited a Project that had been partially done on another platform. There were sub-folders with many of the same file names, but the files were different, often VERY different. I had to re-Link 1400+ still image files (plus 100+ AV files) by hand, and also verify that I was getting the exact file (remember that the file naming was the same, except for the exact location) for each one. PP was good at figuring out many of the files, when they were in the same sub-Folder (I still had to check each one via a "test" set of DVD's though). Had PP just gone for the file names, I would have been SOL. Once the Links were reestablished, the drive letter assigned in all machine OS's, these Links have held, though the external has been swapped about for about 6 mos.
Yes, it would be nice if PP could
know which version of Image_001.JPG (out of more than a dozen in various sub-folders) was required for Sequence X, but heck, I didn't know until I studied the DVD, and used Bridge to look at all of the Image_001.JPG's. At least the JPG's were easy. There were over a hundred .MOV files in the Project, and the original external had up to 12 files with the same file names, but totally different files. In addition, all of the .MOV's had a fade from black, so Bridge displayed a black frame for all of them, and I had to play each one to see what the heck was in it, then re-Link to the correct one.
Much of the blame can be placed on the initial editor for really poor housekeeping and file naming. PP did its best, as did I. Still, if it had just gone to the disk and had chosen one version, based on file name, I would have had 10x the work to do.
I believe that this could be one of those "be careful what you ask for... " situations. A can of worms could well become a barrel of vipers!
Just like doing a flowchart,
one starts an Encore Project, planning the layout for a Project,
one Imports the first Asset, and taking into account all possibilities, like moving the Project to another machine, can really pay dividends later. File naming conventions, and folder layout are very, very important.
> File naming conventions, and folder layout are very, very important.
Agreed. I recently overhauled mine because I was exposed to a better way. In case anyone is curious, said exposure had nothing to do with raincoats. ;)
Yeah Jeff, that's what they all say, when on the witness stand...
BTW, and on a more serious note, can you share your "better way?" This sort of problem comes up fairly often, so a great workflow is always welcome.
* Media Drive
* -Project Folders
* Project/Render Drive
*-Project Folders (to match the ones on the Media drive)
*--Application Folders (Each project file starts with a 2-letter identifier for its parent application. The most current version of a project just has the name of the project. Earlier versions are numbered in order, oldest to newest. I do that to keep dynamic links always pointing to the most recent project version without me having to re-link or replace assets.)
* -Render Folders
* --Application Folders
* Data Drive
* -Stock Footage
* -Stock Graphics
* -Stock Photos
(A copy of each stock item gets added to the appropriate folder on the Media drive. The originals stay here.)
I handle the Stock Assets, just as you do. Luckily, I've got plenty of HDD real estate, but I like working with copies, whereever possible. Also, if I wish to rename one/some Asset(s), I do not worry about that for the next Project, or the next. I often rename my SFX files to reflect where, or how, they are used in a Project. This will be done for my working copy only. The new name would probably not be the same for use in any other Project.
The specks on the two are close, however, FW 400 date rate is substained speed and on large files is around 3 times faster than USB2. We found this to be the case when transfering 2-40GB of files of photographic images, each around a meg or so. The smaller the transfer espically under 300megs, the smaller the difference. As I remember, 30-100 megs was hardly any differance.
During Katrina, I had to update our master photographic library and then make a bkup of it to take and upload at our NO field office, once a week for 9 months. This was done with USB2 or FW400. The full library would take about 45 min in USB2 vs 9-12 min in FW400 on a early pocket drive.
On another note, I've never had problems with FW400 and video, but have with USB2.
Thanks for offering some "real world" observations.
I'm with you on the problems with editing with USB (Maxtor 250's) vs no problems with FW-400, or 800. Soon, I'll probably add eSATA, as more externals are offering that connection. Will mean a new workstation as every slot in mine is filled.
Try esata hard drive caddies.
Yes, I believe that either Jeff B., or Harm M., uses and recommends those.
In another thread, I was bemoaning that I spent a fortune (to me) for a 1.5TB RAID NAS some years back. For those same $'s, I could have about 16TB of hot-swappable eSATA's!
Next system - next system...
What Don Solomon offer is indeed correct and DEFINITELY APPLIES TO USB BE CAREFUL.
I lost >350 GB of data just because I failed to turn off the USB device before un-pugging the usb cable.
Western Digital my book drives have a power button on the rear--not obvious but it is a small round indented button that is momentary contact in nature. Push and hold this until the drive light goes out. Then and only then can your move or unplug it in complete safety. Not sure with Seagate.
For anyone who has lost data in the fashion or who have encountered a drive that cannot e read. Seagate makes an excellent recovery system that in most cases will completely recover the drive. WHEN YOU FIRST NOTICE AN UNREADABLE DRIVE GET IT OUT OF THE SYSTEM IMMEDIATELY!
Seagate File Recovery worked when other programs failed. I recovered the drive mentioned above completely. It works on all types of drives and all MAC systems as well.