12 Replies Latest reply on Mar 20, 2009 4:29 PM by Eddie Lotter

    Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4

      Can someone please explain to me why adding text in Premiere is so freaking cumbersome? I been using Final Cut pro for the last decade or so and have never found this problem until switching back to Premiere since my Apple machine is down.

      Here are my issues:
      I just want to add text. A bunch of text. A whole bunch of it. But I don't want to have a title file for each and every one. I just want to go on the timeline and edited right there. I don't need a title file for each and everyone in my project window. Why are these files here? What is their purpose?

      I have over 300 titles. scattered all over my project bins because Premiere wants a record of each and every one. They are named title0001 - Title0321.... I don't plan to do anything with them. I don't want to individually edit them. I don't even know what they pertain to unless I am able to see them over the background video. Which can only be seen on the timeline. So why do I need them? Many video editing programs and suites i.e. After Effects doesn't save a text file in the project window for every text added so why is premiere doing this?

      It's just too many steps to edit text in premiere!

      Even in Sony Vegas there is an option to copy title/text and paste it as a copy of the first or as a brand new title/text. Without a bunch of text files in the project window. And Vegas is suppose to be a lower end version of Premiere.

      I just want to make a title then copy it and then plop it in a new position on the timeline. Without having to duplicate the last titles and renaming them over and over. I really don't think I'm alone on this. But if I am can someone please explain to me why Premiere has now been set up like this? Maybe I can understand this concept to better my workflow. Because right now this is a bunch of B.S.
        • 1. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
          the_wine_snob Level 9
          visualvendetta,

          I think that it might be time to read up on the PrP Titler.

          The way that Titler works is to create a .PRTL file, with your text AND graphics. It does so in the Project Panel. I keep all of mine in a "Title" Bin. These are placed either within the Video Track (with the Video Clips), or in a higher VT, if you wish for the title to appear "over" the Video.

          I do not know what you are doing to create all of the Titles, but I would assume that it's not what you want. The PrP Titler offers a lot of power. However, I often do my titles in PS, or other, which offer even more power.

          As for making a Copy of the title, this is easy. If you do not wish to change anything, just drag another "instance" of it to the correct VT. If you want similar, but wish to change it, there is a neat little icon on the Titler, that allows you to instantly create a title, based on the one in Titler. It WILL ask for you to rename, but that's easy. Only complaint that I have is that the default name, as it appears in the dialog box, does not reflect the name assigned to the base title. If I have "Liz Comments 01," and base a new title on it, the default name will be "Title XXX." I have to look at the base title and either have done a Ctrl-c (Copy) of it, or re-type. I have filed several Feature Requests for Titler to "remember" the name of the base title. That's my only gripe on Titler. Oh, I do wish that it had "Spell Check," but then if I am doing a lot of title work, I use another program, with that feature.

          I also believe that the Premiere-wiki has tutorials on Titler. It also has great tutorials on how things work within PrP.

          Hunt
          • 2. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
            Level 1
            Hey Bill,
            Thanks for your response. I don't quite think you are getting what i'm saying though. Yeah I agree that Premiere's Titler is very powerful. It reminds me of Media 100's built in Boris titler. But as we all know Media 100 is dead. And even Media 100 didn't save all the text files in the project bin. They were just left on the timeline for you to edit them.

            I personally don't see a purpose to these Title files still. I take it they are used to edit the text. But why? One can just go to the timeline where they are at and edit them right there? Doesn't that make more sense to do?

            The reason why I have so many titles is that I am making subtitles to each narration. It is a training video. And if you are only working on one or two or maybe even 10 titles that need to be copied and renamed, then you might not find it cumbersome. But when you are dealing in hundreds of text files it can make you pull your hair out.

            Oh and god forbid if you dragged the wrong title file from the bin to the timeline. Then you have a whole new mess on your hands that will add to wasted time spent trying to find where the mistake is. Since one copy affects the other.

            Premiere didn't used to do this. Way back in the 5.0 days... And I don't think any editing software out now does this. Doesn't that just say it all?

            It just still makes no sense to me. Does anyone really want Premiere to make these individual text files and place them in the project bin? I mean why are we dragging and renaming these files all over the place? Just take this whole process out. It's a waste of everyone's time.

            Oh.. and don't let me start with how premiere handles MPG 2 files. WTF??? just a total mess.... Sony Vegas beats Premiere CS4.
            • 3. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
              Eddie Lotter Level 4

              The paradigm is that the Project Panel contains all the project's assets.

              What you see in the timeline is an instance of an asset, not the asset itself. If you make changes to an asset on the timeline (like adding effects) you only change that instance, not the asset in the Project Panel.

              PPro is primarily a video editor. It is not designed to do subtitling, although it can be done. Use a different piece of software that is designed to do what you want to do, it will make your life easier. The right tool for the right job.

              You will find links to many free tutorials in the PremiereProPedia that will quickly show you how things are done in Premiere Pro.


              Cheers
              Eddie

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              • 4. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
                shooternz Level 6
                Not sure what your difficulty is because Premiere Titler is infinitely superior to FCP. ( I have used FCP and titling was a show stopper for me)

                Copy and paste your Text from a Word Document into a new title for each subtitle. Suggest you create a Subtitles Bin for them.

                Drag then to the timeline above the relative clip.

                How hard is that?

                BTW - its not a text file in the Project window. Its a reference to a graphic file.
                • 5. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                  >Does anyone really want Premiere to make these individual text files and place them in the project bin?

                  Um, yes. That's where they belong.
                  • 6. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
                    Level 1
                    Hey Jim Simmons, my question is why would you want it there? You say that's where it belongs but why? What is the point for it being there. What is the reason to even have it?

                    I mean what would you need these individual text files/graphics for? What's wrong with just having them on the timeline without another instance of them in the project window?

                    Whoever said FCP is not better than Premiere's should have their head checked. There is no way in the world that Premiere's text editor can even compare to FCP. If you are familar with FCP you would know that there are much more options that it has over A.P. Not to mention the integration of Motion. And the fact that unnecessary files are not kept all over the place.

                    As for you Craig Howard. Why are you acting like this is such an easy thing to do? Well it is easy but... workflow wise there are just too many steps as well as too many unnecessary files.

                    1. You have to find the text file, (unless you are creating a new one)

                    2.duplicate it (with no keyboard shortcut to help),

                    3.rename it (everytime, (unless you are happy with it being called untitlexxx)),

                    4.find it again and then

                    5.place it back on the timeline and then repeat.

                    These are 5 steps. Why do we need five steps? Just have the title on the timeline and edit it there. Copy an instance of it there and place it there. No need to keep a file of it in the project window.

                    And the fact that you are saying that this is now a graphic file and not a text file is what I have been trying to comprehend from the beginning. Hence the name of this post being, "Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4."

                    My point is, why not just keep it a text file? Why have it turn to a graphic file?
                    • 7. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
                      shooternz Level 6
                      The five steps you have pointed to in the post above show me that you have absolutely no idea how to use or workflow the Titler.

                      eg - what is with all this "find the Title, duplicate it, rename it, find it again place it back in the timeline".

                      It is far easier than that and you are making it harder than it needs to be for such a simple (albeit laborious) task of sub titling a pile of clips.

                      Every title is an asset. All NLEs have assets in the Project Bins.

                      You create it (and in your case copy and paste a line of text from a Word DOC) into the Titler Window where convemiently you can see it positioned over your clip instantly (unlike FCP). It is automatically saved as an instance in a Project Bin of your choice for modifying or adapting at your will if need be.

                      When you need to make a number f them Premiere has menu options to assist you make them very quickly. eg "New Title Based on.."

                      I could do approx 60 - 70 subtitles in less than one hour from a DOC file and they would be easily located in the Project Bin for adding to the sequence.

                      If you really wanted to debate the relative merits of FCP vs Premiere, we could take this into a new thread if you wish. (To suggest FCP integration with 'Motion' is really pushing the notion of ease and simplicity for such an easy task as subtitling)
                      • 8. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
                        the_wine_snob Level 9
                        visualvendetta,

                        You are correct, I am missing something, and it must be pretty big - sorry.

                        For subtitles, I use that feature in Encore.

                        Now, I have done a few Projects with over a hundred titles. Some are created as original, but many were "based on" previous titles.

                        I think that the biggest thing that you help you with your workflow is to come up with a naming convention for your titles. This would allow you to easily find the proper title in the proper Bin. I'd look into a 00x prefix to the title names. Then use them in their order. If you need to go in and add to that sequence, use 00xA, in the name.

                        As I usually edit my "chapters" in discreet Sequences, I can name and place my title Bins with each Sequence. Or, I can have one Bin with all titles. As Jim Simon states, what appears in the Project Panel is the Asset. What is on the Timeline is just an instance of it.

                        Hunt
                        • 9. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          >What's wrong with just having them on the timeline without another instance of them in the project window?

                          Editing program just do not work like that. At least, not well designed ones. Everything that appears anywhere in any sequence needs to have an associated file in a bin. Everything.

                          >No need to keep a file of it in the project window.

                          Yes, there is. (See Above.)
                          • 10. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
                            Level 1
                            I appreciate all your inputs. But I think I have made up my mind on Adobe Premiere.

                            You see, I was hoping that it was a setting that I needed to change to have that option turned off. But, it is now clear that there is not. Oh well.
                            • 11. Re: Not understanding Title Concepts of AP CS4
                              shooternz Level 6
                              I am still unclear what "option you wished to turn off" and for what reason?

                              Guess its back to FCP for you.