1 2 Previous Next 40 Replies Latest reply on Jul 30, 2010 10:18 PM by BOBDIX

    Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky

    Level 1
      Vista 64 Ultimate SP1
      Using latest ASUS i7 MB P6T Deluxe w/ Intel 3.2ghz 965 quadcore @3.2 ghz
      12GB Ram
      Nvidia Quadro CX video w/latest drivers. dual Dell moitors 2408WFP running 1920 X 1200 via DisplayPort.
      Premiere Pro CS4 latest updates
      Quicktime Pro latest updates (7.6 1292)

      I can open the .mov files and they play smooth as silk in QT Pro at full rez.
      When I import the .mov files into PP on the timeline and go to play, I get stalling, horrible framerates (on the order 3 fps), intermittent muting in the audio. Horrible. Help ! I sunk a lot of money into this state of the art rig to edit uncompressed HD video from my Canon 5d Mark II, and yet
      I am at my wit's end. The .mov files from my Canon 5D mark II are allegedly 1080p, 30fps h.264 (?). How do I get PP to play and scrub through smoothly uncompressed on the timeline ?

      Thanks
        • 1. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
          the_wine_snob Level 9
          John,

          You may want to do a search of both the Premiere and Premiere Elements fora. There have been a lot of articles on the Canon 5D MKII's files. There will probably be a lot of useful info in those.

          Seems that Canon (and Nikon with their D-90 M-JPG) has thrown a few little twists into the mix.

          Good luck,

          Hunt
          • 2. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
            Bob Gates Level 2
            Suggesting someone search is a good idea, but giving some pointers is also good. In my searching, I have found three ways to solve this. The simplest is to add some clips to the timeline and add a simple transition and hit enter to have PPro render all the files.

            The second, more tedious method, is to create proxy files, as described here:

            http://www.vimeo.com/2641870

            I use 640x360 .mov proxy files for smooth editing and easy replacement by the original files (as the post suggests, if the files have the same names in different directories you can switch them all at once.)

            The third and most expensive but apparently best method is to purchase Cineform Neoscene to transcode the files into files that edit smoothly (I haven't tried that). It is $129 from Cineform but $99 from Videoguys:

            http://www.videoguys.com/Search/Search.aspx?Query=neoscene

            Bob
            • 3. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
              the_wine_snob Level 9
              Bob,

              You are correct. I could have done all of the searching for the OP, but as I do not have this camera, or the problem, I thought that pointing them to a method for this forum, plus an additional forum, that I recall similar posts in, would do the trick.

              Hunt
              • 4. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                Level 1
                Bill & Bob,

                Thanks to both of you for the tips. I read with interest every thread re: the 5d Mark II video, and it enlightened me. Matter of fact, it is unfortunate I did not read these forums BEFORE purchasing Production Premium CS4. Bob, I took your suggestion and ordered the Cineform NeoScene transcoding software from VideoGuys and got it for $89 with a $10 off coupon and free overnight shipping. What gets my goat is that this camera, the Canon 5d Mark II, has already been out on the market for close to 6 months and Adobe has not updated their codecs to accomodate it's files ???? In my best New Yawk accent, WTF is with that ??? One of the main reasons I purchased PP CS4 was because on Adobe's own website, it states Premiere Pro CS4 file compatability with .mov files listing Quicktime Pro as a requirement. Bad enough I had to alreeady give Steve Jobs another $30 of my hard earned cash for his hackers piece of code, but then to find out that after meeting Adobe's own published requirements, I still can not even play these .mov files without this jerky frame rate/muting audio issue. This is what has me and many others, obviously, tweaked. If that is what Adobe claims is "compatability" then I beg to differ. I smell a whiff of false advertising or at the very least embellishment here on Adobe's part, and I am quite disappointed with the outcome so far.I don't know about anybody else, but having to transcode before editing was NOT on my list of extra things to do in my workflow, let alone PAY extra cash outlay over and above purchasing Quicktime Pro to put out a finished product.... I welcome any employee from Adobe to pipe in and make a rebuttal here, assuming they lurk.
                • 5. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                  Bob Gates Level 2
                  John,

                  I agree about Adobe's lack of support for the 5D. I haven't tried the Neoscene yet (using proxies works ok for me), and I am wondering what your experience is with it. It apparently fixes some problems with the color levels in addition to giving smooth editing.

                  And where did you get the $10 coupon?

                  Bob
                  • 6. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                    don solomon Level 1
                    John,

                    Byron, the British Poet, has a great pair of lines in one of his works that is very appropriate here:

                    'These thorns are of the tree I planted.
                    They tear me and I bleed...'

                    For a New Yorker, I detect a certain glaring lack of the built-in up- front protective cynicism about product promotion that I would have expected to find. :) WTF is an appropriate afterthought though. And it does establish that you at least got some of the proper upbringing to be a bona fide New Yorker :)

                    By the way, do not hold your breath until an Adobe rep steps forward to offer a rebuttal for misleading advertising. That's even less likely than a real New Yorker apologizing for saying FU. And, don't be surprised if that is not the only instance of gilding the lily you will discover in Adobe--or many other--software product claims.

                    However, you can get your money back from Adobe, though, if you haven't had it too long. They are quite good about that. And, they were up front about the QTP requirement. And they do have some great products, like AE, that actually live up to the advertising.

                    And, most importantly, out of all this you have certainly learned one half of the lesson necessary for a successful relationship with new software--Read the forum, search the web for 'X Software Problems' and hit the other related forums like DVI, etc.

                    Now for the other half, the cherry on top, the most important step before buying: Are you Ready!

                    DOWNLOAD A TRIAL VERSION AND TEST THE #$%@ OUT OF IT WITH YOUR CAMERA GEAR ON YOUR COMPUTER CONFIGURATION BEFORE YOU BUY. And it never hurts to try the competition's software before you jump.

                    Never, absolutely never, take any marketing claim from any software producer to be necessarily true to YOUR computing requirements.

                    As a potentially full fledged New Yorker (with a bit of re education, that is)I'm sure you will appreciate my F&%$#$G candor :)
                    • 7. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                      If the 5D's video bit rate is indeed 30+ Mbps, then I think that is the problem. The ".mov" file extension is almost completely irrelevant; the high bit rate of the H.264 codec is the relevant subject.

                      For example, AVCHD footage, explicitly supported in CS4, is essentially H.264 video in an ".mts" wrapper. The new Panasonic AG-HMC150 video camera has a proprietary "PH" mode that can shoot AVCHD video upwards of 20 Mbps, and Pr will choke on those clips as well. Lower bit rate AVCHD footage from that camera plays and edits just fine in Pr CS4.

                      There is rumor of an update to Pr CS4 around NAB time. We shall see.

                      -Jeff
                      • 8. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                        Level 1
                        Let me address each one of these last 3 responses individually.
                        Last one first. Jeff, I am afraid your theory does not hold water.
                        Why am I able to load, view and scrub through the timeline (albeit not edit) with ease any Canon 5D Mark II .mov file I open with QT Pro 7.6 ? That is full rez, no proxies, no transcoding, nothing. FILE ---> OPEN. 1.5 GB clips open and play in a matter of a few seconds. Flawlessly. So it is not a hardware or device driver issue for me, obviously. That points directly to poor or incomplete code on Adobe's part. Hopefully you are correct that an update might fix this.

                        2. Don, I did not purchase the software through Adobe. I purchased it through Amazon.com so I could take advantage of a slight discounted price plus no sales tax. Adobe wanted sales tax and full retail.
                        Amazon only gives a 30 day return policy on unopened software or exchange on defective merchandise only. A co-worker uses the CS3 version of Pr and recommended it highly. He edits .m2t files in HD and has no problem, and his system hardware is way less than mine. But you are correct in that I should have researched the part about the specific .mov flavor that Canon utilizes first. My Bad.

                        3. Bob, the $10 coupon popped up when I went to "register" as a first time buyer at checkout on videoguys.com. And yes of course I will report back my experience with it.

                        -John
                        • 9. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                          >Jeff, I am afraid your theory does not hold water.

                          QuickTime Pro is a player/converter. It is not an editor.

                          Try adding a fade or a wipe to a clip in QTPro. Color corrections and time remapping aren't available either. You get my drift.
                          • 10. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                            Level 1
                            i Jeff, I am afraid your theory does not hold water.

                            John, you should trust Jeff on this...he's right.

                            I think the data rate on the native files is 40Mbs using h.264...tough to edit native without a beefy computer.
                            • 11. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                              the_wine_snob Level 9
                              John,

                              Though I have never returned any Adobe product, it is my understanding that they offer a full refund on purchase from them, or any qualified reseller, within 30 days. If you are still within that time frame window, I'd contact Adobe ASAP. Have your invoice, your S/N and any Activation #'s handy. Buying from Amazon.com should not negate Adobe's 30 trial - return for full price guarantee. Do make the call, and let us know how it goes.

                              Good luck,

                              Hunt

                              PS, with regards to an update that addresses the Canon, and also the new Nikon, I'd not expect that for sometime. These two camera, while allowing motion, are both still cameras. Still, if the clientbase is large enough, then it would behove Adobe to work with both Canon and Nikon on this. Only time will tell.
                              • 12. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                >These two cameras, while allowing motion, are both still cameras.

                                Hunt,

                                You know, my initial reaction was the same as yours: they're both still image cameras that happen to take video.

                                *But*

                                After thinking about it, how is the H.264 video that resides on the memory card in the 5D different from the H.264 video that resides on the memory card in the HMC150?

                                What do you think? How big a part does the recording hardware play in the end result? The sensor in the 5D has more real pixels (I think) than the 150, which is what necessitates the higher bit rate for the H.264 video from the 5D. Other than that, though, what is it about the cameras that makes the video from one better or more usable than video from the other?

                                -Jeff
                                • 13. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                  The Panny, being designed as a video camera, records using an industry standard video format. The Canon, being designed as a still camera that also takes video, does not.
                                  • 14. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                    Jim,

                                    H.264 isn't industry standard?

                                    -Jeff
                                    • 15. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                      Jeff,

                                      I do not have a reason as to why the Canon's H.264 causes the problems, that so many see. It would be interesting to hear from someone at Canon. The same is true for the Nikon D-90. It uses M-JPEG, but even with the Morgan and Main Concept [?], the files cause problems.

                                      I would guess that both companies have optimized their version of the CODEC's, but do not know this for a fact. It would seem to me, that each company would be best served to offer the specific CODEC's on their software DVD's, so the files could be edited by most NLE's. I do not believe that either company has a vested interest in any NLE software, like Sony does. Both companies tout their video capabilities, and helping their clients get the most from those capabilities would seem wise, and good marketing.

                                      Hunt
                                      • 16. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                        Level 1
                                        Gentlemen,

                                        I have a detailed inquiry with a case # in to Adobe Tech Support.
                                        Let us see what their official answer is on this matter.

                                        In the meanwhile I downloaded VLC Media Player and dropped one of my 5d M II .mov clips in there and it plays flawlessly, indicating Stream Bitrate of between 39000 and 41000 kb/s (39-41mb/s, resolution 1920 X 1080 with a frame rate of 30.000000). It identifies the video codec as "avc1", and the audio codec as "sowt" with a 44.1khz/ 16 bit stereo stream.
                                        • 17. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                          >H.264 isn't industry standard?

                                          Unfortunately, it's many, many standards. Not all of them compatible with editing. AVCHD is a very limited subset of that standard, and is compatible with editing in CS4
                                          • 18. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                            Jim,

                                            That's like saying MPEG2 isn't industry standard because the standard contains many adjustable parameters.

                                            Even the AVCHD "subset" has a lot of parameters. The high bit-rate PH mode of the Panny won't edit in CS4, but the lower bit rate modes of the camera will.

                                            So, by your argument, the Panny doesn't record an industry-standard format, either.

                                            -Jeff
                                            • 19. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                              shooternz Level 6
                                              Jim always means :

                                              'Jims Industry Standards'

                                              (Usually Tape Based mini DV)

                                              ;-)
                                              • 20. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                I don't think that's necessarily true, Craig. Up until recently, there were few formats used for professional work. Betamax, D1/DV, DVCPro come to mind. But mostly they shared one feature: intra-frame compression.

                                                With the recent proliferation of new HD formats and codecs, and even some SD additions, it's hard to nail down what "industry-standard" really means at the present time. And intra-frame codecs are no longer a requirement.

                                                News broadcasts and documentary broadcasts often use very different formats and codecs, yet each operate in the so-called "professional" and "broadcast" environments.

                                                That was my point.
                                                • 21. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                  shooternz Level 6
                                                  My point is exactly the same as yours Jeff...
                                                  • 22. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                    >That's like saying MPEG2 isn't industry standard because the standard contains many adjustable parameters.

                                                    Well, from an editing standpoint, that's a pretty good way to put it. Premiere works with HDV, which is a specific subset of the MPEG2 standard. But it often has trouble with other types of MPEG 2 videos because they vary from that standard.

                                                    >The high bit-rate PH mode of the Panny won't edit in CS4, but the lower bit rate modes of the camera will.

                                                    This is likely just a horse power issue.

                                                    >And intra-frame codecs are no longer a requirement.

                                                    Though they are the sane choice.
                                                    • 23. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                      >(Usually Tape Based mini DV)

                                                      Oh my God, dude, let it go already. If anyone made a DV camera recording to solid state in the sub-$1,000 range, I'd be pushing those as well. But no one does. So tape it is for that price range.
                                                      • 24. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                        >This is likely just a horse power issue

                                                        I have 8 cores and 16 GB RAM, with 2 RAID0 disks feeding the video to Pr in a Vista 64-bit environment. Even I can't edit the high bit rate Panny footage. How much horsepower is required?

                                                        By way of comparison, the lower bit rate Panny footage plays and edits like a hot knife through butter on the same system, barely using 50% of the available CPUs.

                                                        I'm pretty sure there are other issues besides horsepower.
                                                        >Premiere works with HDV, which is a specific subset of the MPEG2 standard. But it often has trouble with other types of MPEG 2 videos because they vary from that standard.

                                                        I've not had trouble in any version of Premiere Pro editing any flavor of MPEG2, HDV or otherwise, with or without plug-ins. From my perspective, problems editing MPEG2 in Pr arise from causes beside just the format.

                                                        That said, footage with intra-frame compression generally produces superior results when matched against like footage that uses inter-frame compression. MPEG2 should be avoided if quality is your top concern *and if* another, better editing format is available. To say, however, that MPEG2 is unsuitable for editing is, IMHO, painting with too broad a brush.
                                                        • 25. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                          >I'm pretty sure there are other issues besides horsepower.

                                                          Maybe. But if the next step down is using about 50% of available power with those specs, it's still a contender as an explanation.

                                                          If there is something else going on under the hood which causes issues with the PH footage, an Adobe programmer would probably have to step in and speak up. But given the information we have to hand, my explanation of why one works and one doesn't still seems very plausible.
                                                          • 26. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                            fabriziorizzo Level 1
                                                            Has anyone considered [in this thread] that the 5Dm2 video footage edits just fine in FCP on a Mac? The issue is almost assuredly the QT codec on Windows and how Premiere CS4 interfaces with it. Plenty of other threads to deal with that topic.

                                                            QT player (or any other) playback mechanism works fine... yea we all agree on that... but a player does not an NLE timeline make.

                                                            As far as bitrates... transcoding the footage to HDCAM EX 1080p at 38.6 mbps CBR scrubs just fine... if it was purely a bitrate issue... I'd expect that to fail too.
                                                            • 27. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                              >The issue is almost assuredly the QT codec

                                                              That is another plausible explanation.

                                                              >if it was purely a bitrate issue... I'd expect that to fail too.

                                                              HDCAM is an MPEG2 variant. H.264 is an MPEG4 variant, and requires far more processing power to decode at any given bitrate.
                                                              • 28. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                                cjw394 Level 1

                                                                So what's been decided? Buy Cineform Neo Scene?

                                                                • 29. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                  Fabrizio,

                                                                   

                                                                  Just for clarification, are you saying that the Canon 5DMK II footage does edit fine in FCP on a Mac? I sounds like it, and if so, that would be a good thing for Canon 5DMK II owners. It could also hold a key to the problems on a PC, whether one is on PrPro, or other PC-based NLE. If true, I'd certainly go along with your idea that it's a QT CODEC thing.

                                                                   

                                                                  Though I do not have this camera (own too many Nikons), I see enough complaints, that I am curious. As of my last search, Canon had not released any info on the CODEC used.

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks for the info,

                                                                   

                                                                  Hunt

                                                                  • 30. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                                    Level 1

                                                                    >Cineform Neoscene to transcode the files into files that edit smoothly

                                                                     

                                                                    Well, I downloaded the trial, and it turned my 1gb mov file into a 2gb avi that Premiere dislikes even more than the file straight from the camera.  Huh??

                                                                    • 31. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                                      Level 1

                                                                      AliasAngel wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      >Cineform Neoscene to transcode the files into files that edit smoothly

                                                                       

                                                                      Well, I downloaded the trial, and it turned my 1gb mov file into a 2gb avi that Premiere dislikes even more than the file straight from the camera.  Huh??

                                                                      Did you mention your machine specs?  Cineform conversion will make the files larger, but should make them easier to handle in Premiere.  I'm having no trouble with Cineform files, but I have a pretty high end machine.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                                        Level 1

                                                                        >Did you mention your machine specs?

                                                                         

                                                                        Windows XP Home SP2

                                                                        Intel Core 2 Quad - 2.66GHz

                                                                        4gb RAM

                                                                        Geforce 8800 GT 512mb with latest drivers

                                                                        • 33. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                                          Level 1

                                                                          Well, out of curiosity, I dusted off my old Premiere Pro 2.0, and guess what, the Cineform files work like a dream in there.  So what's up with them being all jerky and freezing in CS4?

                                                                          • 34. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                                            Level 1

                                                                            I think I found a solution to the Cineform CS4 problem.  Import the cineform avi files, save the project, quit Premiere, start Premiere again and open the project.  Bye-bye jerky and freezing video (unless you put some serious effects on it, then you get some skipping).  So woohooo, but still pout because my trial is up in two days.  What was the deal with that coupon?

                                                                            • 35. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                                              harikaramsingh Level 1

                                                                              Sorry, just to clarify, did the Cineform solution work for every(any)one?  Particularly the guy running XP 32bit?

                                                                               

                                                                              What makes Cineform superior to just using Adobe Encoder to create a Microsoft AVI (uncompressed or 10-bit YUV?)?

                                                                              • 36. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video needs to be rendered...
                                                                                fuaho Level 1

                                                                                As I mentioned in a previous thread, I have no problem playing back and editing my EOS 5D Mark II *.mov files after I have rendered the timeline.

                                                                                 

                                                                                If there is a red line above they do not play well, after rendering the sequence, e.g., once the line is green, they playback just fine.

                                                                                 

                                                                                No conversions, transcoding, additional codecs other than QT 7.6, etc.

                                                                                 

                                                                                HTH,

                                                                                • 37. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video needs to be rendered...
                                                                                  harikaramsingh Level 1

                                                                                  Yeah I have no problem either after rendering.  But previewing to get an idea of how things will look without (time consuming) rendering is the challenge...

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video needs to be rendered...
                                                                                    Level 1

                                                                                    Agree,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Even on the old Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5.1 it works after rendering, although there is a slight problem after Firmware upgrade 2.0.4 with the speed change to 25 FPS PAL and it will not import that speed at all. however, Premiere Elements runs H264 , it accepts the mov files and you just Export to Movie, save as unrendered avi file and re-import into Premiere Pro for final edit.Appears to be no loss of quality . CS5 is said to accommodate the H.264 mov files from the Canon EOS 5D Mark II, remains to be seen ?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Message was edited by: Bob Dix

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Canon 5D MII .mov files video is jerky
                                                                                      John Shearer Level 1

                                                                                      I wont update to cs5 until September..what is the feedback on 5dMarkII jerky preview?

                                                                                       

                                                                                      John@shearerpainting.com

                                                                                      www.shearerpainting.com

                                                                                      1 2 Previous Next