18 Replies Latest reply on Nov 20, 2008 8:16 AM by MediaMind2

    Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...

    shooternz Level 6
      I am not warming to this new Track Targeting thing....

      Maybe I am going stooopid but I dont get the advantage at all. In fact its extra work for the mouse hand and less abilty to edit via shortcuts.

      Try reading the Manual (P 147 - 152) and see if it is in anyway comprehensible as to what this does or why.

      After telling you ..."to add clips to a sequence using Source Monitor Controls (or kb shortcuts) you MUST specify target tracks in advance" Yeah , I get that o.k.

      It then says " You CAN map the tracks of a clip in the source monitor to one or more tracks of a sequence by dragging the Source Track Indicator" (STI). "Can" is not an option BTW. I dont get that!

      So heres the deal.

      We have a Track Header (a 'TH' - as we always have) This is selectable O.K

      We now also have a Source Track Indicator ('STI') This is selectable also.

      To use the Source Monitor and the short cut keys (or Insert /Overlay buttons) it is now necessary to both Target the track (select the TH) and also select and drag the new STI to that Target Track. Failure to do both results in neither an Insert or an Overlay Edit.

      We also seem to now have some weirdness that the OVERLAY Button (or its shortcut) will do an insert without inserting the clip. Creates a hole. Why does an Overlay do that?

      Ive messed with this for sometime and still dont get it.

      Enlighten me please someone ... and tell me who the hell asked for it. He needs a good slapping.

      Losing the 'Take Video /Audio / Both Button' is so odd because it was possible to set it up as a short cut kay that worked as a toggle. Its replaced with a Drag Video button and a Drag Audio button.

      I guess we are supposed to be more mouse oriented now.

      BTW - this new "thing" is so much like FCP in the way it works. (and thats a bad, bad thing!)

      I am very prepared to get it so bring it on everyone. Prove me stoopid as I feel.
        • 1. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
          Level 1
          I would like to see someone prove me stupid as well...Seems like they did it just because other NLE have it.
          • 2. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
            shooternz Level 6
            ...or some ex FCP ******** put in a feature request!
            • 3. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
              Level 1
              Whatever the reason, it wasn't thought out very well...this is one feature I would like to see vanish...
              • 4. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                joshtownsend Level 2
                "FCP ******** put in a feature request" - I'd like to know who decided Transcribing was a top feature request. That's something they could have spent their resources better elsewhere.
                • 5. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                  TradeWind Level 3
                  Well, I agree...it just looks like someone was hired on at Adobe to make PPro more competitive with FCP, and this was one place where the consultant said, "Oh, this is how you have to do it. This is how EVERYONE does it. It's a deal breaker."

                  It isn't a great feature at best, and at worst, it's poorly implemented.
                  • 6. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                    Well, I guess I'm one of the only ones to appreciate the new feature. I can understand why some may not like the workflow, but after cutting for twelve years on Avid products, I'm glad to see it. I find that it gives me more flexibility in how I can make my edits, and I can usually accomplish things more quickly than if I were limited to the old system. By mapping the video and audio track target commands to the keyboard, I can work much faster. Add the sync-lock function, and I'm loving it...
                    • 7. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                      shooternz Level 6
                      Good to hear that Chad.

                      Have you found a way to map the Source Track Indicator to a KB shortcut? eg move the STI to desired track and then select it.
                      • 8. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                        Averdahl Level 3
                        >Have you found a way to map the Source Track Indicator to a KB shortcut? eg move the STI to desired track and then select it.

                        You cannot map those to any KB shortcut.

                        I strongly think it one should be able to map it to a KB shortcut, so please file a Feature Request so Adobe fix this. :)

                        http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                        /Roger
                        • 9. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                          shooternz Level 6
                          Thank Roger.

                          Thats part of the issue and a tricky one to sort out because you not only have to move the STI , you have to select it (ON/OFF) as well. Probably take two keybd shortcuts to achieve this.

                          Previously I could KB shortcut as a toggle - the Take Audio/Video/Both button and it was easy to Short cut the target tracks. With this method I could "assemble an edit" without touching the Timeline (or mouse*) at all . (*Except for bringing source clips to the source monitor)
                          • 10. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                            MediaMind2
                            Just started testing the trial version...couple thoughts, from someone who drags clips to the timeline about 70% of the time and uses kb shortcuts the rest...

                            -I think it's great to be able to target several tracks...especially for lifts and extracts. This was soemthing I noticed immediately after switching from Avid apps. Having this ability however necessitates the patching "paradigm", and thus some added complexity.

                            -Just wondering if now, with multiple track highlighting, sync lock, and lock, there's just too much redundancy??...but I suppose having multiple options is always better?

                            -I actually tend to drag clips to the timeline more than in the past...and the one thing that I don't like is that PPro forces placement of your audio clip in the same number of your video track...instead of placing it where you have it patched...and where it would be placed if using a button/kb shortcut.

                            -I really like having the separate video/audio drag buttons...having to continuously cycle thru the take both, video, audio was a pain. This is something I'll use a lot.
                            • 11. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                              >PPro forces placement of your audio clip in the same number of your video track...instead of placing it where you have it patched

                              That sort of defeats the whole purpose of the feature, then, doesn't it?
                              • 12. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                > PPro forces placement of your audio clip in the same number of your video track...instead of placing it where you have it patched

                                >That sort of defeats the whole purpose of the feature, then, doesn't it?

                                Most likely he patched an incompatible audio track.
                                • 13. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                                  shooternz Level 6
                                  >Most likely he patched an incompatible audio track.

                                  I dont think you can do that.
                                  • 14. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                                    MediaMind2 Level 1
                                    What I was trying to say was, that dragging a clip with both audio and video in it acts different than using the button or keystroke.

                                    If I have V3 and A4 targeted and hit ".", my audio goes to A4.

                                    But if I drag the clip down to V3, the audio would go to A3, even with A4 patched.
                                    • 15. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                      OK.

                                      I'm not sure that's any different then earlier versions, though, which would always place dragged clips in the same track number, regardless of targeting.
                                      • 16. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                                        It WOULD be a great feature if implemented right, like FCP or Avid, but the Adobe way, it SUCKS dearly.

                                        To Adobe: Please provide some kind of autopatch (like Avid), which selects the right source track for selected target track automatically. Or at least provide us with keyboard shortcut to select source tracks without mousing around!

                                        **posting this into Requests**

                                        I think Adobe will hear us on this one, though... There was similar inconvenience in first release of CS3, where you had to always switch to the source panel in order to insert/overwrite to the timeline. They fixed it in 3.1.
                                        • 17. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                                          shooternz Level 6
                                          As I edit my first CS4 project I am discovering other inconvenient ramifications to the Track Targeting procedure as it is now.

                                          1. A track or tracks must be targeted for PGDN/Up etc to work at all.

                                          2. It is less easier to edit to a waveform in the source window. (a different process required to display it. Although same number of mouse clicks are involved they are slower because they come from a drop down menu)

                                          3. Track targeting can be a hindrance with applying default Transitions. Needs careful selection and observance of On or Off.

                                          Overall I am finding it all quite a bit slower than previous and have yet to find the advantages or efficiencies.

                                          CTRL-Z is my best friend at the moment.
                                          • 18. Re: Cold on the new Track Targeting regime...
                                            MediaMind2 Level 1
                                            Yep, the results of dragging a clip to the timeline are the same as prior versions, always goes to the corresponding number.

                                            But with the overhaul of the timeline with sync/target tracks...I think it would be nice for A/V to follow your patched track...or even better would be to give you the option to select this in prefereces. Some people(especially new editors) might like the structure of keeping V1 with A1, etc. But for most editors who are using VO, Music, Sound FX, there's no reason to restrict you now with the target track tool in place.

                                            Like I said before, I like to use a combination of drag/kb and it would be nice to have both functioning the same way.

                                            And I agree with some of the other posts...Adobe needs to make sure all the kb shortcuts are available for this new "paradigm". Probably would not be an issue if they extended their pool of testers and addressed prior to release.