31 Replies Latest reply on Nov 18, 2008 1:46 PM by joshtownsend

    Insert and overlay buttons do not work

      When I press the insert or overlay button in the source monitor to insert/overlay the clip onto the timeline, the footage in the timeline moves, as well as the timeline bar, as if the footage had been correctly inserted/overlayed, but the actual footage does not get inserted/overlayed! Nothing happens! For example, if I insert a clip onto the timeline, all the footage on the right of the CTI gets pushed to the right, but the space where the new footage should be inserted is left blank!

      this happens when I press the actual buttons as well as if I use the . and , shortcut keys.

      I'm using Adobe CS4 Production Premium on Windows Vista Ultimate 32-bit in a 1280x1024 square pixel project
        • 1. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
          shooternz Level 6
          This is the brilliant NEW track targeting system that no one asked for but we got anyway.

          You now have to do the following:

          Step 1 : Target a track in the Track Header.

          Step 2 : Select and drag the Source Track Indicator to the same track that you selected in step 1.

          Do the same in the Audio Tracks.

          Insert /Overlay from Source.

          Most of this is impossible to do with Shortcut keys. You must use the mouse.

          BTW - it is now real easy just to drag Audio or Video from source with the mouse but that is the price we paid for loss of Take Audio/ Video or Both Button.

          Enjoy.

          I really want to slap the beta testers long and hard over this one. (Feckin idiots.)
          • 2. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
            joshtownsend Level 2
            cs-4-more-clicks at work again. Sorry had to say it. Love the rest of the suite though. Premiere is like the ugly stepchild Adobe keeps chained in the attic until it's time for a new Flash or photoshop.
            • 3. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
              >I really want to slap the beta testers long and hard over this one. (Feckin idiots.)

              You assume waaaay too much about situations for which you have absolutely no information.

              Stop it. ;)
              • 4. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                shooternz Level 6
                Happy in my own ignorance about such matters as beta testers.

                but if they actually exist, which planet do they live on?

                Actually so far it seems they played a good part in a great upgrade so I must not be so harsh.
                • 5. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                  Eddie Lotter Level 4
                  >which planet do they live on?

                  Part of Jeff's point is that we have no idea what the beta testers informed Adobe about nor what Adobe did with that information. Blanket statements don't do much for credibility, so it's really worth sticking to facts.


                  Cheers
                  Eddie

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                  • 6. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                    Level 1
                    "but if they actually exist, which planet do they live on?"

                    planet hobbyists? however I must admit, premiere work pretty good with low bit rate avi's, even though importing a few minute of quicktime from an avid can take two days, fortunately i sport more then one machine, so i can observe the advancement in premiere, to see if the footage is editable
                    • 7. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                      shooternz Level 6
                      >Part of Jeff's point is that we have no idea what the beta testers informed Adobe about nor what Adobe did with that information. Blanket statements don't do much for credibility, so it's really worth sticking to facts.

                      We never will hear the facts from either Adobe or the "beta tester so thats pointless and I believe it valid to criticise a process such as this when I disagree with what they have done. ie why they did it.

                      Process must depend who the beta tester feels responsible to.

                      I think they are there to "test" the product on behalf of ADOBE and the END USER. In that case both may have let us down in this instance.

                      Someone decided this was a better way to work (and it still maybe when the polls come in) ...but.. I never heard a complaint or an issue or a request for this to change anywhere / anytime.

                      ADOBE just served it up to us but the beta testers must take their share of either brickbats or credit for it.

                      Time will tell.

                      BTW - this is no show stopper for me. The cumulation of improvements in CS4 far out weigh this "annoyance".

                      I will also predict "How do I get insert /overlay to work?"... will be one of the more often asked questions in this forum .
                      • 8. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                        >I believe it valid to criticise a process such as this when I disagree with what they have done. ie why they did it

                        Criticize the results all you want. Criticizing the process from the vacuum of end-user space is pointless and misguided.
                        • 9. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                          joshtownsend Level 2
                          TOTALLY AGREE CRAIG. nearly every Beta tester acts like CS4 is perfect and everything is OE.

                          Best judge of a product is 'Would a pro studio use this'. Answer is no studio would use a product as buggy as premiere CS4. They'll update to the newest Final Cut or Avid the day it comes out. After ten versions Adobe is still playing catchup. They need to rewrite the code instead of doing these maintenance versions trying to catch-up and sprinkle useless features such as speech transcription (a joke with no value unless your shooting a documentary and then it'll only work 80% for the narrator).
                          • 10. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                            >nearly every Beta tester acts like CS4 is perfect and everything is OE

                            And you can say this because you personally know the identity of the beta testers for CS4? Please share, because I'd like to know who they are, too.
                            • 11. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                              joshtownsend Level 2
                              CS3 they had public beta trials for premiere way before they released the product. This time the gave out Beta for review purposes a month ahead of time. And the from my talks with the beta reviewers, none of bugs they pointed out were fixed.

                              So yeah the process deserves and needs to be criticized. It's pretty obvious that CS4 has more problems out of the box than any other NLE out there.

                              That said I love the rest of the CS4 suite Premiere got screwed.
                              • 12. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                joshtownsend Level 2
                                Here's beta tester whose a great example. "Pardon? As I mentioned above, I did indeed make a fuss over it, and it was a huge, huge unrelenting "oh God, there's Jimerson and his 24p thing again" fuss. The 4.0.2 update -- which will restore automatic pulldown removal -- is happening mostly because I made that fuss."

                                http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=151866&page=3
                                • 13. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                  Level 1
                                  On the note of bugs, etc. - Has any other version of Premiere Pro had as many bugs from the start as CS4?

                                  Oh well, most of them are minor annoyances, but they are still annoyances....that stack up.

                                  Anyone know when the update is coming?
                                  • 14. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                    shooternz Level 6
                                    >Criticizing the process from the vacuum of end-user space is pointless and misguided.

                                    futile maybe...but never "pointless" when one is trying to making a point.

                                    "misguided"...how so? Who should I direct my point at if not the process that gave me something I dont like much and find cumbersome?

                                    BTW : Do you like the new "mouse driven" edit workflow created by this change Jeff ?
                                    • 15. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                      josh, you're painting with a very broad brush and basing a lot of criticism of the app as a whole based on a pet feature of yours that has changed. That damages your credibility.

                                      BTW, there's a *huge* difference between a "beta reviewer" and a "beta tester".
                                      • 16. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                        >"misguided"...how so?

                                        Because you don't know what the process is. Criticizing what you don't know about or understand is, IMHO, misguided.
                                        >BTW : Do you like the new "mouse driven" edit workflow created by this change Jeff ?

                                        I use about a 50-50 mix of mouse and keyboard. Sometimes my "mouse" work is done via a Wacom tablet. It's not a deal-breaker or even a real pain for me. But I do understand your frustration with having to absorb a new paradigm and then getting your keyboard-driven workflow interrupted because of that change.
                                        • 17. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                          Level 1
                                          I am getting quite amused and entertained by this pointless -err futile** conversation taking place between you two!

                                          HAHAHA exchange phone numbers and have a chat over it, will ya? It'll make for a great topic over coffee.

                                          :-P!
                                          • 18. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                            joshtownsend Level 2
                                            Jeff I have a bet with some fellow local directors will you go on record saying you think Premiere CS4 is the best NLE ever?
                                            • 19. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                              shooternz Level 6
                                              >Because you don't know what the process is.

                                              Not entirely true but you werent to know that ...

                                              I have beta tested editing software (plugins) and been part of the "process". It was quite an inclusive process.
                                              • 20. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                joshtownsend Level 2
                                                I beta tested Magic Bullet looks and got 5 free copies and a t shirt and I won't talk smack about that product.....
                                                • 21. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                  Level 1
                                                  "I beta tested Magic Bullet looks and got 5 free copies and a t shirt..."

                                                  Wow - that's more then I got when I beta tested for Red Giant.

                                                  "Jeff I have a bet with some fellow local directors will you go on record saying you think Premiere CS4 is the best NLE ever?"

                                                  I don't think anyone here would say it's the best ever, but there many of us who prefer it over others.

                                                  "Best judge of a product is 'Would a pro studio use this'. Answer is no studio would use a product as buggy as premiere CS4. They'll update to the newest Final Cut or Avid the day it comes out. After ten versions Adobe is still playing catchup."

                                                  No offense, but if you really feel this way, why do you use/own it, and what are you doing on these forums? People come here for help, not to be told how bug filled their software is. They want advice and support.

                                                  And your claim that CS4 is bug-ridden is such an overstatement. Since installing it a month ago, I've been able to get all my projects done. Is it perfect? No. But neither was CS3 when it was released...anyone remember the title panel creep, or the "corrupt" fonts that would crash the font selector in the title window? But none of those stopped me from getting my work done. Should they have been fixed? Sure...and I told anyone from Adobe I could when I had the chance. Can anyone name any big program that's released bug free?

                                                  I'm actually glad that Adobe waited to get some features right before releasing them (i.e. OMF and AAF support, FCP XML support, etc.). To be honest, I think that the speech to text should have been worked on some more before it was released. I'm glad I have it, and I look forward to using it, but I think it needs more refinement. But I'd rather have Adobe get things right and release them when they are ready then release a half working version.

                                                  And if you think FCP or Avid work bug free, go over to Creative Cow and take a look at all the people dealing with the bugs in those programs.

                                                  I get that you're frustrated, and you're not alone in that. I'm all for holding Adobe accountable. If something is not working, they need to know and we users need to tell them. I would just say that when people come here for help and support, can we not use that as a platform to air out our complaints, but try and find a solution to their problem. I know that when I've needed help, I want answers - not just "Yeah, doesn't that suck! This whole program is nothing but bugs!"
                                                  • 22. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                    shooternz Level 6
                                                    >I beta tested Magic Bullet looks and got 5 free copies and a t shirt and I won't talk smack about that product.....


                                                    I dont believe you about 5 free copies of a piece of software that retails at close to $500 a pop. Who needs five copies and were you permitted to sell them or pass them on?

                                                    One copy and a t-shirt maybe (plus most likely a confidentiality agreement when you started)
                                                    • 23. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                      joshtownsend Level 2
                                                      Hello everyone. If you are getting this e-mail it is because you are on my "dang they are good testers" list, and really made the difference during our Magic Bullet Looks beta program. You obviously went above and beyond to put the software through its paces, and to a small software company like ours, that is simply priceless. I'll be e-mailiing the main list with a discount offer on the software, but I wanted to do something special for you all.

                                                      I have 3 things in mind:

                                                      1) Please, please, please keep testing for us on future products!
                                                      2) Free software! Please use the checkout coupon code "xxxxxxx" for a free copy of Magic Bullet Looks (lets say up to 5 copies is fine, honor system)
                                                      3) T-shirts! I'll need your address if you want one.

                                                      Thanks again, couldn't have done it without you.

                                                      Best,


                                                      Micah Sharp
                                                      Red Giant Software
                                                      www.redgiantsoftware.com

                                                      Email Micah if you don't believe me Use my name to. And no we didn;t have to fill out any agreement. Why five copies? Cause a lot of us testers have more than one computer at the companies we own. Read the Looks agreement Your only allowed to have one copy per machine. But you can install it on multiple multiple programs.

                                                      A single email to RED GIANT will prove this if you really care that much.
                                                      • 24. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                        joshtownsend Level 2
                                                        It's sad that even CS4's biggest defenders won't even say it's the best NLE out there. I'll say Phototshop CS4 is the best photo editing program. I'll say Dreamweaver CS4 is the best web-page software out there. I'll also say After Effects CS4 is the best motion graphic software out there (I wouldn't say compositor though but it's the best sub $2000 one)

                                                        Hell I'll go so far as to say Premiere CS3 is the best NLE out there right now. In case you haven't noticed I try to help plenty of people on this forum. I'm also here because I was stupid enough to buy 3 copies of crap *** premiere CS4 for my studio. I didn't have demo to test and I caught into the hype thinking this was gonna really make work faster. I was wrong.

                                                        It's that CS4 isn't completely worthless, it can edit DV like a champ. But then so could version 6-9.

                                                        If Adobe would refund just Premiere out their Production Premium package I would do it and leave you guys alone. Premiere CS4 is almost unusable in a proffesional setting and it's just barely usable in a consumer setting.

                                                        Look at the other CS4 forums. There are nearly as many complaints for Premiere per day as there is for photoshop which is used by 100 times more people. That means Premiere is a buggy-filled piece of junk.
                                                        • 25. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                          Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                                          Josh, the more you say; the less credible you become.

                                                          Perhaps CS4 is a disaster in your small vacuum of a workflow. If that is the case, stop using it. But dont assume professionals round the planet are not basking in the great new features and workflows.

                                                          If you have constructive advice on bugs or features, submit them to adobe, not a user to user forum. Adobe is a smart company. If people submit useful things, they listen. They are less inclined however to listen to ranting, as am I.
                                                          • 26. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                            >In case you haven't noticed I try to help plenty of people on this forum.

                                                            We have noticed. (Well, at least *I* did) :)

                                                            As for the rest of your rant - remember what I said about painting with too broad a brush? IMHO, that applies here.

                                                            Premiere Pro CS4 is the best NLE I've ever used. I'm not qualified to say that it's the best "out there" because I haven't used all of them that are out there. I've used a lot of Windows NLEs, but I've never cut with Media Composer and I've never owned an Apple computer. Since Avid and Apple seem to be "the competition" for Premiere Pro, my opinion on the "best NLE out there" isn't worth stink.
                                                            • 27. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                              joshtownsend Level 2
                                                              Edited - cause this is silly. I've got a trailer to edit on CS3.

                                                              I'm cool with you Jeff. You just won me a twenty dollar bet.
                                                              • 28. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                                >You just won me a twenty dollar bet

                                                                Should I be happy or insulted? :)
                                                                • 29. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                                  joshtownsend Level 2
                                                                  A little bit of both. Story is here in Jacksonville most directors and editors I know use Final Cut or Avid. After falling for Adobe's September anouncement (that there announcing CS4) I told them that Adobe was the way to go.

                                                                  I was at a meeting with a few of them and they were ragging on Premiere and I after trying out the trial. I told them there were people who swore Premiere CS4 was the best NLE even with all the flaws. They told didn't believe me so we bet $20 (well a round of drinks) that I couldn't come up with a link. And you my friend provided that link.

                                                                  Seriously though Jeff, I really appreciate that you acknowledged I'm actually here to help as well complain. :)
                                                                  • 30. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                                    >After falling for Adobe's September announcement (that they're announcing CS4) I told them that Adobe was the way to go

                                                                    Do you think you were wrong to say that? I don't.

                                                                    Look at CS3 3.2 compared to CS3 3.0. I expect the same for CS4. OOB, CS4 is head-and-shoulders above CS3, and it will only get better as the some of the remaining wrinkles get ironed out.

                                                                    To quote one of my favorite movie characters: "Have a little faith, baby!"
                                                                    • 31. Re: Insert and overlay buttons do not work
                                                                      joshtownsend Level 2
                                                                      "Have a little faith, baby!"

                                                                      That's why I'm here toughing it out my friend.