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I think something like the AJA or BlackMagic add-in cards are what you're looking for.
I don't want to buy aditional Hardware or Software!
In "Final Cut Pro" it is possible to edit and playback HD-Video with the Codecs that come with the software - why isn't that possible in Premiere CS4?
Edit fluently is a new one. The point of Premiere is it that it can edit everything fluently if your computer is up to date. You can't really compare with Final Cut because EVERYTHING in has be a quicktime.
So I'm guessing your used to having to transcode all all your footage before you could render it in Final Cut. Premiere doesn't work like that. In fact there are a lot of things quicktime that CS4 is having problems with.
Stop transcoding everything it's bad Final Cut habit. You can install the free Avid codec and premiere edits them fine (some are damn good codecs).
Renders always look better if don't have to lose generations. I suggest rendering DV proxy files to edit with if your hardware can't play the source files.
CS4 screwed up there whole way of editing to accommodate a timeline that edits NATIVE source files USE IT.
Blackmagic doesn't support CS4 right now. Hell the just got working with all the framerates in CS3 two months ago. I know because I have an Intensity card not getting used. Anyway it works best for previews and footage captured with the BalckMagic codec.
Thank you for the extensive answer.
First, I supposed, that my Mac is up to date: it is a Mac Pro 2,8 GHz 8 Core; so the machine should not be the problem. Also all software update are done.
As described in the top, my Original Material is always "Apple Animation Codec" (out of Flash); it is definitely not possible, to edit in this codec because you have up to 800 Mbit/sec.
So I HAVE to encode it to an other codec.
I also already tried the AVID-HD Codec in Premiere CS4 - and it doesnt't playback fluently.
I also tried the "Apple intermediate Codec" with al result of 75 Mbit/sec - it also doesnt't playback fluently (in Quciktiem Player it does).
So I still have no idea, which codec to use.
Maybe it is easier for people, who grab material from their camcorder and that codecs already are supported by CS4.
But I produce Animation, that is completely produced in Flash or After Effects (often mixed with Life Action Fottage, I get from AVID etc.)
Try Dvcprohd. My P2 files are 1080 100Mbit/sec and they play real time just fine even on older computers. You can trancode with AME to P2 files or download use the quicktime DVCPROHD.
Use another programm. Premiere Pro can not handle any quicktime footage, and transcoding from one format to another is a waste of time, and even more important, reducing picture quality.
In Premiere you can can use the DVCPRO HD from mainconcept, but it supports only 1080i, and costs money
>why isn't that possible in Premiere CS4?
Because that's just the way it is. For Full HD editing, you may need that add-in card. Premiere comes with the AJA codec, but only works if you have their card. (True for up to CS3, not positive about CS4 though.)
(By the way Josh, DVCPRO HD does not allow full raster 1920 x 1080 images, which is what the OP was asking about. You're limited to 1280 x 1080 in America, and 1440 x 1080 in Europe.)
Why don't you just edit the flash files. CS4 does that. That'll save you two generations. And where does the 1080 flash come from no camera shoots that?
You've going from flash to qt animation to another codec for you to render then out to 1080 again. That can't look good. Is there another generation before it even goes to flash?
Thanks for the different answers!
"Premiere Pro can not handle any quicktime footage ..."
Where is the problem with Quicktime if it runs on a Mac? I don't understand this.
"For Full HD editing, you may need that add-in card."
I don't understand this either - in Final Cut Pro this is not a problem, even on older Macs!
(I dont have the money now to also buy "Final Cut Studio 2" after I just bought the CS4 Master Collection - very, very expensive, especially if it doesn't work as promissed by Adobe !!!)
"Why don't you just edit the flash files. CS4 does that. That'll save you two generations"
Ok that could be a possibility, I didn't try that.
"And where does the 1080 flash come from no camera shoots that?"
I often have to mix Flash-Animation with Life Action Footage (especially from another AVID) so it would be nice, to edit both material in one editor. I already imported the HD-AVID-material into flash (als FLV) but than I don't have no more relatime playback in Flash
>I don't understand this either - in Final Cut Pro this is not a problem
They're two different programs and may not have the same exact capabilities. You shouldn't necessarily compare the two.
K.Nicolas sez: "Why that? Where is the problem with Quicktime if it runs on a Mac? I don't understand this".
Well, I don't know why quicktime movies do not work properly in Premiere, it also doesn't work in EncoreDVD, on both application it takes forever to import quicktime video. We edit all quicktime, as well high definition video in Final Cut, or AVID.
The standard proceeding for editing 1080 footage is in ProRes422, and if there are no color corrections, the ProRes422 is the master. When corrections are necessary, we import at end of edditing the 10-bit 4.2.2 footage uncompressed via the Edit Decision List from the HDCAM video tape recorder, apply whatever correction etc., and then make the master.
Editing VB6 *.flv flash video is not a good idea. The on2 VB6 codec is for delivery, not for editing.
This media encoder for the Mac makes perfect on2 VB6 Flash:
Thank you for the description of the production workflow in Final Cut - it sounds very reasonable. Maybe Final Cut Pro is still the fisrt choice in editing HD on the Mac.
So it seems, I made the wrong investment with Premiere CS4!
I really dont' understand, why Abode brought back Premiere to the Mac in the HD-age. They had a couple of years now to adapt Premiere Pro to the Mac (after they abandoned so years ago ) and in this years, HD-Video still was an standard.
Maybe they should have been honest and leave Premiere Pro in the Windows world
>So it seems, I made the wrong investment with Premiere CS4!
Noooo, of course not. You made the wrong investment with the Mac.
>HD-Video still was an standard.
For editing at this level, HDV and DVCPRO HD are the "standard" HD formats, and CS4 edits them without hardware. By comparison, very few users will be editing Full HD as few users at this level could afford the cameras that shoot in Full HD.
Well, Jim said it, Premiere Pro is a nice application as long you do not try to edit what can not be edited in Premiere.
Every NLE has its flaws, and the Macs has as many fabrication defects as a Windos PC. Apart from that, After Effects work perfect on the Mac, as well on PC.
I didn't want to start this old "Mac vs. PC" discussion.
But now, it is here.
A lot of the PC-followers forget, that Adobe grew up with Mac-Software first, and Adobe itself semt to forget this, when it discontinued Premiere at Version 6.5 some years ago (I had made all the updates starting with 4.0)
I think, we are in an age now, where we can assume to buy a software, install it - and work with it from the beginning!
I am a creative, a filmmaker - I don't have any more time to waste in software that isn't programmed intelligently enough, to correct some, lets say small mistakes of a user, for example, wrong codecs.
In 2008, if I spend al lot of money in a software I really can expect that it serves and supports my work completely !!!
We are not in the year 2000, where anyone had fun to make experiments with half-baked software.
We are in 2008 !
>In 2008, if I spend al lot of money in a software I really can expect that it serves and supports my work completely!
That's a very foolish viewpoint. You need to look at your work requirements, then research and buy software that offers the functionality that fits your needs. It won't do much good to buy the software first only to find out it doesn't fit your needs.
And yes, it's also foolish to assume that any software can fit everyone's needs.
First of all: I tested the Testversion - and there the HD-Options are not included !!!
I beliefed in the promisses, Adobe makes on the Product Webpage.
"And yes, it's also foolish to assume that any software can fit everyone's needs."
I don't want to write novels or screenplays inside Premiere, I don't want to make calculations as in Excel, I don't want to dram pictures as in Photoshop, I don't want zu compose music as in Logic - I just want to edit fluently !!!
Let's call it what it is: fraud.
K.Nicolas sez: "I beliefed in the promisses, Adobe makes on the Product Webpage".
Believe is for christ democrats and pedestrians.
I use Premiere on the Mac and it does exactly what Adobe says it will do. If you need an intermediate codec to edit your footage, then you need to look elsewhere. The best option for Premiere at the moment is the third-party Cineform codec, which is roughly the equivalent of ProRes 422. Unfortunately, to convert files to Cineform MOVs you need to either have Final Cut Pro installed on your Mac or use Windows. In my case I have Boot Camp installed on my Mac Pro and can boot the computer as a native Win XP box. I hate doing this as Windows is such a POS, but it's still necessary for some software. Most third-party plug-in vendors for the Mac are currently focussed exclusively on Final Cut. Hopefully Premiere will get more traction on the platform and that will change.
>I beliefed in the promisses, Adobe makes on the Product Webpage.
Precisely which promise are you referring to?
>I just want to edit fluently
And for most of the common formats, you can do just that. You're working with an uncommon format.
Even within the same frame of reference, say video editing, it's foolish to think that one program can fit every user's needs. That's why there are several, and at different levels of skill and pricing.
Thanks for the advice of Bob Ramage.
I just looked at the Website of cineform.com.
I didn't know which codec he specially meant, so I downloaded the "Neo HD/4K" 15 Day Trail for Mac. Encoding also seems to work from "Quicktime Pro" although there are very less options.
The encoded movie runs fluently in Quicktime Pro, the activity monitor says, it needs nearly 4 cores of the Mac Pro to play back; the 1920x1080 movie has a datarate of 194 Mbit/s.
In Premeire Pro CS4 it DOESN'T playback fluently, although it unusually uses 2,5 cores to playback (until now no other codecs could use more than one core in Premiere ore other realtime software at realtime playback, appart from encoding).
I also downloaded the Windows codec ProspectHD - but in the description they say, you need Premiere installed in Windows to use the encoder - I don't own Premiere for Windows.
- - - - -
Jim Simon "Precisely which promise are you referring to? "
Multicore Intel® processor
Mac OS X v10.4.1110.5.4
2GB of RAM
Dedicated 7200 RPM hard drive for DV and HDV editing"
This for me indicates, HD-Editing is self-evident !!!
>This for me indicates, HD-Editing is self-evident !
Well then now you're just making stuff up. The only reference I saw was for for HDV, which Premiere handles without additional hardware. It's the Full HD that you may need the hardware for.
I am having exactly the same problems with Premiere. I am using custom 2k footage (or trying to). I'm having no problems in FCP but wanted to try Premiere because of the Dynamic linking with AE and PS. Thankfully, I got a free copy from Adobe, but unfortunately..the workflow just doesn't work.
Premiere will need a to address these issues or they will be losing several customers including me. For Premiere to not handle Quicktime well is ridiculous unless they present a viable alternative now.
Until then, Premiere is software with good intentions but not much more. That's unfortunate.
as for additional hardware... if you're expecting everybody to shell out 1k-3k for aja/kona cards then you will be losing a lot of customers. Especially, as FCP/Prores works just fine without it.
Alexander...what kind of footaage are you editing? What did you capture it with?
PS. K.NIcolas: You should not be using H.264 to edit. It's a final delivery format only and has problems in the edit.
I'm using RED footage. I was hoping RED native would have been available by now, but it's not. So, I'm stuck with the usual transcode to ProRes in FCP. But since I was given the PP software, I decided to try my best with it and have not been successful.
For the majority of users editing standard HD/SD footage, the absence of an integrated intermediate codec in Premiere really isn't a problem. Premiere's ability to edit footage natively is a real strength. Still, I agree that the program would be more competitive on the Mac if it included the option of transcoding to an intermediate codec such as ProRes or Cineform.
that sounds confusing, so here:
Machine FCP (2.8 8core, 8GB)
RED > PRORES > FCP
Machine CS4 (2.8. 8core GB -identical)
modifying import settings to accomodate 2048x1024 (2k) resolution
not working well
>I was hoping RED native would have been available by now, but it's not.
Give it another week or so.
And please come back and share your experience. I'm seriously looking at one of the Scarlet options for next year.
Alexander, seeing what you're doing, I don't know if it's entirely PPro's fault you're having problems. You're taking currently non-supported footage, wrapping in an intermediate codec made for FCP, and trying to edit it in a different NLE...
As someone who edits on a PC, I don't deal with ProRes all that often, but have you thought about using Cineform? You might find you have better results.
And as for having to buy additional hardware, if you plan on capturing or rolling out HD fotage from or to a tape based format, regardless if you have PPro or FCP, you'll need a capture card.
I wouldn't recommend using Cineform with CS4 on the Mac right now. It works fine with CS3, but for some reason performance on CS4 is poor.
" ... if you plan on capturing or rolling out HD fotage from or to a tape based format, regardless if you have PPro or FCP, you'll need a capture card."
No - not everyone needs a captuer card !
In 2008 I produced 3 animation films in Full-HD 1920x1080 for big companies, that were shown on fairs and delivered direct from a PC as WMVs. I think, tape, DVD or Blueray will become more and more unimportant in the near future so for a lot of filmmakers it makes no sense to buy expensive input / output hardware. Video files as dlivery format are the future - they are allready here.
... and, in my opinion, the development of hardware based video codecs is the worst technical mistake, that was done in this field.
In a lot of cases, you can not playback the movies you capured with a videocard, that isn't installed on your computer anymore.
I hear this from a lot of colleagues.
I have hours of video files, captured with a video card and its corresponding video codec between 1996-2000. I can not playback any of this files anymore.
But I stil can playback "pure" videocodecs in video files, from the years before 1996 without any problems
Only this circumstance is a reason, not to buy a video card.
Maybe. But getting it to work the way want is a pretty damn good reason to buy one.
I think my point was that if you want to roll out to (or capture from) HDCAM SR, DigiBeta, or any other tape based format, you'll need a special card for it. You can't do it without. I agree that we are slowly moving away from tape based workflows, but for the time being tape is still needed for some projects.
Export AVI from Adobe Flash, and everything works fine in Premiere
> Export AVI from Adobe Flash, and everything works fine in Premiere
except for the fact that your source material is severely crippled and unsuited for editing.
AVI on the Mac?
I tried that a lot of times in other projekcts, that I had to deliever to PC and I always got very bad results.
Ok, maybe it works better now with Mac OS 10.5 and Mac Pro - I wil try.