36 Replies Latest reply on Jan 20, 2010 10:08 AM by zbestzeus

    CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance

      I'm running CS4 on XP (Boot Camp on MAC) with an NVIDIA 8800GT 512mb. Performance is awful - constantly freezing during playback. The problem persists on After Effects as well. Meanwhile, the entire CS3 suite runs like a champ.

      I found Adobe's registry keys that correct an issue with this graphics card and Photoshop CS4 - but it was no help to Premiere or After Effects.

      I'm assuming this is a problem at the driver level but thought it was worth posting to see if anyone had found a solution.

      CS4 works rather well on my PC(only) workstation with an NVIDIA 8800GTS 320mb.

      Any ideas? I really think it's a graphics card issue, but let me know if you think I'm off track. Thanks.

      Mac Pro
      Dual Xenon Quad 3.2
      2Gigs Ram
      NVIDIA 8800GT 512

      CS3 Installed w/ all updates
      CS4 Installed w/ all updates
        • 1. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
          Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant
          I doubt that the graphics card is a problem, as I am running the same card in my Dual Xeon Quad 2.33GHz PC with no problems. No MAC experience here, but tons of benchmarking on PC's with Premiere 1.5 up to CS4. CS4 just requires more horsepower than CS3--more code, more horsepower required. Of course I do not know what penalty Boot Camp might supply or what complications it might cause on the driver side.
          • 2. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
            Level 1
            I'm reading a great deal about people having similar problems to mine: choppy playback and momentary freezing. I hope someone finds a fix soon - hugely frustrating to have issues on XP with excellent hardware.
            • 3. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant
              Nick, what format are you editing DV or HDV or etc.? What is your disk setup? I think you will have to admit that yours is an unusual setup now that Adobe has a separate MAC version. I doubt if Adobe has tested this version with Boot Camp.

              I also think many problems like this are caused by trying to edit unusual or weird formats or are caused by operator errors in setting up the project. 99% are having no similar problem.
              • 4. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                Level 1
                Nothing unusual really. Boot camp is just a partitioning and boot log utility built in to OsX. Once windows is up and running everything is native.

                I'm editing DV that was captured with Premiere Pro CS3. I've got the operating system (XP), scratch, and media on separate drives (no raid).

                As I mentioned before, CS3 is running like a champ on the same machine. I'm hoping just a setting or a driver change will iron it out - but it's nothing obvious.
                • 5. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                  Level 1
                  The problem is something to do with the hardware acceleration. CS4 seems to run really well with Direct Draw and Direct 3D disabled.

                  I installed the latest version of DirectX but it didn't help.

                  I rolled back the NVIDIA driver to a version that doesn't enable PhysX acceleration and everything seems to be good now.

                  I'll update if things change.
                  • 6. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                    Level 1
                    >Direct Draw and Direct 3D disabled.

                    Where do you turn these off?
                    • 7. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                      Level 1
                      Control Panel>Display>Settings tab>Advanced>Troubleshoot> Move slider to third hash mark from the left.
                      • 8. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                        Nick,

                        Am very interested in your problem, as I had this exact issue in CS2 and CS3 on macbook pro with 8600GT-M.

                        With 32-bit XP in bootcamp, the after-effects UI (and a few other program's UI's) would re-draw incredibly slowly, until I discovered the turning-off-direct-draw trick you found.

                        The problem is, this also disables Open-GL acceleration, which is half the point of using the newer after-effects versions.

                        Is anyone aware of a way of turning off direct-draw while maintaining Open-GL?

                        -- John
                        • 9. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                          DenisVID Level 1

                          I have same problem.  Any  new ideas? Very slow re driwing timeline.

                           

                          My PC

                           

                          OS Win 7 x 64

                          CPU 6400

                          MB Tpower I45

                          6 gig ram

                          260 GTX

                           

                          All new updates and drivers

                          • 10. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            CPU 6400: Is that an AMD?

                            Then terrible performance is to be expected.


                            • 12. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                              Level 1

                              I have CS3 on a Dell Inspiron 530 with XP sp3, intel dual core 2.6mhz, 3gig ram, 8800GT

                               

                              no problems here.

                               

                              nvidia control panel allows the following adjustments (in old days controls were better for openGL and Glide and DX but this is what we got now)

                               

                              physx.png

                               

                              availableram.png

                              3ddummy.png

                              3dsmarter.png

                               

                              Rod

                              • 13. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                Throttle back on the overclocking and see if that helps.


                                • 14. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                  DenisVID Level 1

                                  Not working. Still slow .

                                  • 15. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                    Try the http://ppbm4.com benchmark and submit the results to Bill and also attach your Output.txt file here. Bill is pretty busy right now so it may take some time to get these results included.

                                    • 16. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                      DenisVID Level 1

                                      Thanks ! Please look this www.immvideo.com/clips/clip.wmv

                                      • 17. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                        DenisVID Level 1

                                        Today was meet with my friend. He have 10 PC core 2  duo and CS3 premiere . On ALL PC we have terrible performance time line and no one dont know what wrong . On cs4 all most worst .

                                        • 18. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                          Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                          Denis, since you have a PC and CS4 run my Premiere Pro Benchmark PPBM4 and email me the results and I can tell if your computer is properly tuned for CS4.

                                          • 19. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                            DenisVID Level 1

                                            Sorry for my English! I think this test result show render
                                            performance not redraw speed. Also i have a clear win 7 and premiere
                                            cs4 installed and terrible redraw speed. Rendering speed absolutely
                                            normal. Premiere cs2 just flying. 4 weeks i trying to understand
                                            what's wrong. Look like OpenGl redraw problem. And interesting think:
                                            Older drivers for video card work more faster on CS4

                                             

                                            And last: I know meany people who nave same redraw problem on cs4 and
                                            cs3 and premiere elements. I see posts from 2008 year to 2009 with this problem but no body
                                            help.

                                            • 20. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                              Adobe Premiere Pro does not use OpenGL!

                                               

                                              PPBM4 tests are designed to show CPU performance and disk performance.  If you do not send them to me I cannot help you as I have helped many others

                                              • 21. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                DenisVID Level 1

                                                Was send for you my bechmark result.

                                                • 23. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                  Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                                  Sorry for the delay but it has been hechtic here.  I have sent you an email with the following analysis.  I do show it here just to respond to your forum inquiry and to be able to close this thread out.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Denis, I had to change/fill in several pieces of information in your machine information.  I hope I did this correctly as it was a lot of guessing.  After digging out on the Internet here are my assumptions.

                                                   

                                                  Your Tpower i45 is apparently actually a Biostar motherboard not a Gigabyte.  Based on your 6400 chip number that you supplied and the motherboard I determined that your chip was probably the E6400 that normally runs at 2.13 GHz.  You have only one CPU which is a dual core.

                                                   

                                                  Here is an abbreviated version of your results data I will enter on the web page.

                                                   

                                                  Denis

                                                  Biostar

                                                  Tpower i45

                                                  319  Total

                                                  16.1 AVI

                                                  70.9 MPEG

                                                  232  RT

                                                  Intel E6400

                                                  (OC) 3.1 CPU Clock

                                                  1 CPU

                                                  2 Cores

                                                  6 GB RAM

                                                  4.2

                                                  Win XP 64

                                                  SATA

                                                  120

                                                  7200

                                                  SATA

                                                  250

                                                  7200

                                                   

                                                  With this data and knowing that you are overclocking I would guess that you have not done a complete job of tuning the OS (and officially Adobe does not support XP 64 so I have absolutely no data on this OS).  I just looked at your previous posts where you say you have Win 7 but in the data submitted twice now you say you have XP 64.    Which is it?  How many processes do you have running in the Task Manager before you start Premiere?  On my system with XP 32 I have 21 processes running.  Your CPU intensive MPEG score of almost 71 seconds is possibly high; it is difficult to say how high as I have no other overclocked dual core processor results to compare it with.  When you tell me how many processes are running it will help.  The biggest improvement (after proper tuning) that you could make for your system would be to upgrade the CPU to a current quad core chip like a Q9400 for less than $200 USD.

                                                   

                                                  Your disk intensive AVI score of 16.1 seconds is also high.  Do you have indexing turned off on your disks?  How full is your OS disk drive?  Is it well defragmented?  If you improve the CPU score it will also improve this score.

                                                   

                                                  The Render Timeline new score is still the highest I have seen.  It is a combination of CPU and disk performance.  Did it actually take almost 4 minutes to Render the Timeline?

                                                  • 24. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                    DenisVID Level 1

                                                    Shanks for all!
                                                    If my cpu speed is 2.1 Time line still slow. On system disk 30 gig
                                                    free space. Indexing OFF. HDD Defragmented.

                                                     

                                                    On clear win 7 (with video drivers ) time line still slow. But
                                                    premire cs2 flying!  If i uninstall video drivers and install
                                                    Standart VGA drivers premiere redraw time line  like video drivers is installed.
                                                    Its happend on 10 PC the same. On premiere elements 8 redraw is deadly
                                                    slow. Look at video file above.

                                                    • 25. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                      Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                                      My rule on any disk drive is that after it is 50-60% full it is time to consider moving files off the drive or replacing it.  After that amount of data the drives start to slow down.

                                                       

                                                      You did not answer how many processes do you have when you open Task Manager?

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      I am having problems with statements like "If my cpu speed is 2.1 Time line is still slow."  If you mean you turned off overclocking naturally it would be slower than with overclocking

                                                       

                                                      Again you mention Win 7 but your Output.txt files say Win XP 64.  What operating system do you have?

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Maybe we will have to get our very multilingual expert Harm to communicate with you. Harm, do you do Russian?

                                                      • 26. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                        Njet, but German, French, Dutch, Swiss-German (Baernduetsch, Baslerduetsch u Zuericherduetsch oder aehnliches) and some English are OK.

                                                        • 27. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                          DenisVID Level 1

                                                          In Russian it will be good!

                                                          • 28. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                            DenisVID Level 1

                                                            I have win XP X64 and Win 7. A dont undersatand why premiere cs2 redraw time line  very fast but cs4 so slow(Looks like video drivers not installed)

                                                            • 29. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                                              CS4  requires more CPU than CS2

                                                              • 31. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                                zbestzeus

                                                                First off, ignore what anybody else says. I've done a decent amount of IT work debugging adobe products since it is the main thing our company uses for video. You've got a few problems, but your first problem is you are using CS4 on XP. I know adobe SAYS CS4 works on XP but it does not. It will just crash all the time and give you hours of headaches. CS4 works well with Windows 7. We've discovered many bugs, this one is the most annoying: DO NOT use adobe after effects and adobe primiere pro together. If you make something in after effects, EXPORT it, then import it with primiere pro. Linking the programs together can result in loss of your whole project.

                                                                 

                                                                Your second problem is you are using Dual Xeon Quad 3.2ghz. I know you think they are very pretty and such, but they aren't. I've done many benchmarking tests in both linux and windows on $10k computers. Taking out the 2nd xeon will actually IMPROVE your computer's performance. Not sure why but there's something wrong with the architecture. I tried talking to Intel about this but they wouldn't let me through to anybody. In both real world and benchmark tests I have done..... a Core i7 cpu will do double the performance of a Xeon Core i7 CPU.
                                                                The older Quad Xeon's based on the Core 2 Duo core are even slower. We have a dual quad 3.0ghz Core2 duo architecture, and a cheap core2duo 6600 both running windows 7 and CS4... and the people complain about the Dual Quad 3.0ghz being too slow.

                                                                 

                                                                Contrary to popular belief, your graphics card is not going to effect your render speed. IF you buy a Nvidia Quadro and install a special plugin your graphics card can actually be used to render. This GREATLY speeds up rendering, but you have to pay for it $$$.

                                                                 

                                                                Now the biggest bottleneck is actually going to be your hard drive. Slow to view files? Imagine your hard drive is trying to open up this 1GB raw video file and try to read through it. Even a very lite video player has issues with this. Get some nice 1TB hard drives, put them in raid 0.... and you've got some good speed. MAYBE you are pulling the files off your video camera? In this case you want to USE firewire 800 if you can get your hands out it. Both USB and Firewire 400 are going to put you at 40 MB/s max transfer, average around 30 MB/s. Firewire 800 can handle the bandwidth.

                                                                 

                                                                AND FINALLY! You only have 2GB of ram. Primiere can easily use up 2GB of ram, 6GB is best to be safe. When you only have 2GB of ram that means windows is going to use your hard drive to store the ram. So basically Primiere is going to read the video off the hard drive, load it into virtual memory.... and things are going to be very slow.

                                                                 

                                                                Also, I have noticed CS4 has LESS problems if you don't install the updates.

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                If you want CS4 to run decent, here's what you need:

                                                                 

                                                                OS: Windows 7
                                                                CPU: Any Core i7
                                                                Ram: 4GB min
                                                                Hard drive: 1 TB hard drive, raid 0 best for performance. Raid 5 would be decent since reads are most important.

                                                                • 32. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                                  Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                                  First off, ignore what anybody else says.

                                                                   

                                                                  Does that also apply to your post? Or to any answer on your post? If that is the case I better stop now...

                                                                   

                                                                  While you make certain valid points, all this has been discussed ad infinitum and can be found on the hardware forum, for instance How to get the best from a PC? Some guides...

                                                                  • 33. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                                    zbestzeus Level 1

                                                                    Very funny. While searching through google for helpful ideas to fix CS4 this article came up. As such it would be a better place to put a solution than a newer article which is not SEO'd. Just looking to help people that's all. I say ignore what other people said because there's a lot of people out there who don't know what they are talking about. For instance, in your post while talking about what CPU to get you mention getting a XEON. Well now from my post you know better now. Also, I have 2 Quadro CX's and yes they give a HUGE boost in rendering. Not that I think it's worth the $$$, but it does do as advertised. Your post while lengthy and informative doesn't give reason as to what you need for CS4 to run properly, it's just an overall guide.

                                                                    • 34. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                                      shooternz Level 6
                                                                      You've got a few problems, but your first problem is you are using CS4 on XP. I know adobe SAYS CS4 works on XP but it does not. It will just crash all the time and give you hours of headaches.

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      This opinion is nonsense.   My CS4 / XP system works perfectly and is close to 100% stable.  (Any issues that do arise are generally 3rd party plug in related.)

                                                                       

                                                                      My hardware is far less than current power machines but absolutely does the business ( in a full professional environment). I doubt that I even run the latest FX1700 nvidia drivers -  "if it aint broke...dont fix it"

                                                                       

                                                                      I have no issue with PPro and AEFX running concurrently ( but I do not use DL very often).

                                                                      • 35. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                        Since you seem to know it all, do you care to submit your results from the http://ppbm4.com benchmark to Bill for inclusion in the results list?

                                                                         

                                                                        That would definitely substantiate your claims. I think that until you have proven your statements with tangible results in benchmark tests, they are still open to discussion, so please prove us otherwise.

                                                                        • 36. Re: CS4 on XP with NVIDIA 8800GT - terrible performance
                                                                          zbestzeus Level 1
                                                                          Modelugnx-01proe-04catia-023dsmax-04maya-02sw-01Adobe Test Render
                                                                          Core2Duo T7300 Geforce 8600 Gt5.0712.8114.1318.6827.088.964:18
                                                                          Core2 Extreme 9300 Quadro 3700M17.1933.6663.6256.4952.7284.031:46
                                                                          8 X 3.2ghz Xeon W5580 Quadro CX17.4848.6552.9581.3191.9999.041:06
                                                                          4 X 3.2ghz Core i7 965 Quadro CX27.2687.5396.38108.56210.73253.310:52

                                                                          Thanks for the tool, this will come in handy. I will be sure to post the Core i7 965. Unfortunatly I no longer have the dual Xeon Core i7 computer as it was just for a review. Here's some SpecViewPerf10 benchmarks(2 threads) along with adobe primiere pro render times. Keep in mind the test render was not using the quadro render accelerator presets to make it more of a CPU benchmark. As you can clearly see, the single Core i7 computer greatly outperforms the Xeon computer. The xeon computer also had more ram, faster hard drives, expensive intel motherboard, all the most expensive things you could possibly put in a PC. The Core i7 computer was made with cheaper components. I tried multiple SpecViewPerf10 benchmarks with 1-8 threads and nomatter what the Core i7 965 would beat it. Took out one of the Xeon W5580 cores, same benchmarks. Disabled hyperthreading on the W5580, same benchmarks. The Xeon W5580 is still fast, it's just if you are paying $2k per processor you would expect that a single $1k processor would not be better.

                                                                           

                                                                          Also if you goto http://ppbm4.com/Benchmark.html. You can see your Core i7 920 beat out the Dual Xeon W5580 and W5590.

                                                                           

                                                                          I was not entirely sure whether you meant the XEON or the Quadro CX in your benchmark tests. Unfortunatly your test tool will not show the power of the Quadro CX. I am sure you are aware, to utilize the Quadro CX you have to use special presets from a plugin. If I used these in the test it wouldn't be a good comparsion tool. I will however give the test a shot and send my results. I see your computer is top currently

                                                                           

                                                                          In respect to the person previously. It is completly possible for a person who doesn't edit much to use Premiere Pro CS4 on Windows XP and not have a problem. It is also possible for a person to use Windows 95 and not have it crash. Does that make it a stable program still? Consider yourself one of the lucky ones. In a work environment where Premiere Pro is used on a daily basis it is considered unacceptable to have to redo a project once a week due to a bug. Windows 7 has less conflicts with Premiere Pro and therefore you should not use Windows XP. I had to put Windows 7 on all the video editors computers because they refused to use CS4 on Windows XP as it crashed too much.