1 2 Previous Next 42 Replies Latest reply on Dec 7, 2008 5:29 PM by joshtownsend

    CS4 & AVCHD

      How do I edit AVCHD files in Premiere CS4? I tried to drag and drop and import my .mts files from my Canon Camcorder but Premiere say imcompatible file format.

      Premiere CS4 is has AVCHD support right? I am using the trial version.

      TIA
        • 1. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
          What do the help files say about importing AVCHD footage?

          Try importing through the new Media Browser. Import the top-level folder structure. Let us know how it works.
          • 2. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
            Harm Millaard Level 7
            Might be the same as with CS3. Trial may not support it, get the full version.
            • 3. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
              Good catch, Harm. I missed that.
              • 4. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                Level 1
                Nothing about AVCHD in the help files
                • 5. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                  Level 1
                  CS3 doesn't support AVCHD trial or non trial. CS4 trail is suppposed to be the real thing only working for 30 day? Media browser doesn't show these files in the folder even though they are there.
                  • 6. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                    Harm Millaard Level 7
                    The trial in CS3 does not support anything MPEG related. CS4 trial may be the same, including AVCHD, which is a MPEG variant. The full version of CS4 does support AVCHD.
                    • 7. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                      Level 1
                      > CS4 trail is suppposed to be the real thing only working for 30 day?

                      If you are asking, is it everything but limited to 30 days, the answer is
                      no. Adobe can provide free trials for the stuff they own, but some
                      components are licensed from other parties, and those licenses may or may
                      not include Adobe's right to provide free trial access. Is such cases,
                      these components may be missing from the trial version. Examples of missing
                      components may include some codecs.

                      Best,
                      Christopher
                      • 8. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                        Sheri Codiana Level 1
                        Christopher is correct. AVCHD is not enabled in the trial version.

                        Sheri
                        • 9. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                          Sheri,

                          How nice to see you hanging around here! Slumming?

                          -Jeff
                          • 10. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                            Curt Wrigley Level 4
                            Sheri, it would be VERY helpful to label what is crippled in the trial clearly at the download point.

                            This comes up very often and is very frustrating to potential buyers when they think Pr doesnt work; when it is just the trial is crippled.

                            Curt
                            • 11. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                              Level 1
                              related avchd point:
                              I'm waiting for someone to say how much avchd slows cs4 down.

                              or how much of a pc you need before it 'edits' it were standard definition dv.

                              (Still holding out hope all the talk of needing a massive rig to handle avchd at all was just that!)
                              • 12. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                > or how much of a pc you need before it 'edits' it were standard definition dv.

                                IMHO, nothing will edit native avchd like dv. If you want that, then covert it to something less compressed.

                                You need a fast machine to edit avchd and it still wont be like dv.

                                Curt
                                • 13. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                  Level 1
                                  > (Still holding out hope all the talk of needing a massive rig to handle
                                  > avchd at all was just that!)

                                  Rather than try and edit with a codec designed for delivery, why not convert
                                  to a codec designed for editing?

                                  Best,
                                  Christopher
                                  • 14. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                    Dan Isaacs Level 2
                                    Think Cineform...
                                    • 15. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                      Level 1
                                      >Rather than try and edit with a codec designed for delivery

                                      Can you really consider AVCHD a delivery codec any more? I understand where your thinking is, but I'm not sure I can agree.
                                      • 16. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                        Level 1
                                        so i far, here is what i was able to do with AVCHD in CS4:

                                        1- Import MT2S files with media browser, move them to timeline... so far i was feeling happy... hit play...got plenty of artifacts and video was a bit sloopy....

                                        2- The video was a snowboard video, decided to apply auto-levels effect to improve the white color of the snow... did that, export it to BLU-RAY .

                                        the results were far from satisfatory, i notice the effect wasn't applied to all frames, some were missing the effect.. resulting in a flickering video.. i though maybe i did something wrong... decided to try again..

                                        bump! big issue... can't see any video in PP cs4. every type of video i import to software just shows a black video... i can hear the sound on the background... but no video at all is shown on source or edit monitor. any ideia?
                                        • 17. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                          TradeWind Level 3
                                          I'm with KL here...sure, MPEG variants are much more suitable to delivery than editing (the converse is true for things like P2 and AVC Intra, obviously). However, with Panasonic selling cameras like the HMC150 now, targeted to the prosumer and ENG video markets, there's just kind of no argument left anymore.

                                          Having recently tested out the HMC150 myself, and viewed the results, I can tell you it is leaps and bounds beyond any HDV footage I've ever seen. It's not perfect, but the problems of HDV aren't there, and in general, it still looks much better than any DV footage I've shot on the DVX100B (the SD predecessor to the HMC150).

                                          So let's just kill it with all this delivery nonsense for now on AVCHD, since it's now supported by many apps - including Premiere - as a source format, and supported by a handful of prosumer cameras for recording, with perhaps more to come soon.
                                          • 18. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                            >Can you really consider AVCHD a delivery codec any more?

                                            Personally, I think all GOP codecs can be considered such. When the idea was developed, the only thought was final delivery. That camera makers (in what I consider to be a serious lapse of judgement) have taken up these delivery codecs and started using them for original source doesn't mitigate the fact that GOP compression was designed and developed solely for final delivery.

                                            Those who choose to emulate camera makers' lapse in judgement and use such equipment will simply have to put up with the attendant issues that arise form using a final delivery codec as source material. Either that or convert it first to a format more suitable to editing - like Cineform.
                                            • 19. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                              Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                              > the results were far from satisfatory, i notice the effect wasn't applied to all frames, some were missing the effect.. resulting in a flickering video..

                                              That is normal for any video with the auto filter unless you set the temporal setting very high. If you dont set the temproal setting high, the auto filter makes a different decision for each frame of video which wil result in flickering.

                                              Dont use the auto filter.
                                              • 20. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                Level 1
                                                > Can you really consider AVCHD a delivery codec any more?

                                                Yes, as in delivery to the editor.

                                                > I understand where your thinking is, but I'm not sure I can agree.

                                                Let's ask a more important question. Do you consider AVCHD an editing
                                                codec?

                                                Best,
                                                Christopher
                                                • 21. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                  Level 1
                                                  Hi Christian,

                                                  This is pretty alarming news :-(

                                                  I have a friend who uses a Mac, and loads movies from his Canon HV100 into the program he uses on the Mac ( I believe it's iMovie )

                                                  His machine is a 2.8 ghz machine, and the footage from the camera ( he copies it to the hard drive ) is as smooth as peanut butter. The Mac imports it in brilliantly, and he can shoosh the time line, and the video will play at any point, without any hesitation. I'll put it like this, the way his Mac can play this video, is like it is playing a 320x200 video, it is 100% effortless. Mac is doing something right in the video editing sector.

                                                  As a PC user, what you write is very distressing :-(

                                                  When I read that CS4 would have AVCHD support, I figured you would drag and drop the footage, and that was the end of the story, it would play, could be edited without a worry in the world.

                                                  Sad news, but thanks for posting.
                                                  ( I want to buy a flash based camera, but now I wonder ... )

                                                  Dave.
                                                  • 22. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                    >Do you consider AVCHD an editing codec?

                                                    No, despite the fact that cameras makers push it as such and NLE developers comply with the notion.

                                                    Proper source material should always be I-frame only - DV, DVCPRO HD, AVC-I, HDCAM SR, .R3D, etc.
                                                    • 23. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                      TradeWind Level 3
                                                      > GOP compression was designed and developed solely for final delivery

                                                      I'm sure the designers and developers of the wheel are rolling over in their graves as people worldwide throughout history have begun using something that they designed and developed for moving objects for such things as entertainment (ferris wheel).

                                                      I think most people would agree that the ferris wheel is not the best implementation of the invention we know as the wheel, nor the most efficient. However, it is a valid implementation as long as people recognize the inherent inadequacies (lack of work being accomplished, less fun than sex, danger of injury or death).

                                                      > When the idea was developed, the only thought was final delivery.

                                                      ...which doesn't mean it can't be used for something else. I'll refer once more to our wheel designers, who were likely encountering a single problem (moving stuff) and made their efforts rather narrow-mindedly. But, just because they were narrow-minded in their design efforts should not require that we only adhere to the uses they prescribed for their invention.

                                                      Likewise, AVCHD as a source format is just one way in which people have utilized the compression algorithm. Kind of like people saying "gee, what kind of fun stuff can we use this wheel thingy for?", someone somewhere saw the AVCHD codec as the solution to the question "what's a way we can fit acceptable high definition video in long format onto a small, readily accessible and affordable media card?"

                                                      Seriously, if it is acceptable, just use it. If not, then pay the big bucks and get a better option. I'm sure that people at Panasonic understand that AVCHD doesn't hold a candle to AVC Intra as a source format, but they also understand that certain professionals and prosumers can really use a product such as the HMC150, with it's professional controls and feature set, but a less-than-stellar codec implementation.

                                                      > That camera makers...have taken up these delivery codecs and started using them for original source doesn't mitigate the fact that GOP compression was designed and developed solely for final delivery.

                                                      Not sure anyone's trying to mitigate the facts surrounding original intent...we're all just trying to get some work done, and for some of us, the best way may be AVCHD.

                                                      Not trying to get on your nerves (too much) Jim, but ya gotta let it go. Adobe wouldn't have gone to the trouble of implementing AVCHD if there wasn't a sizable demand for AVCHD as a source format.

                                                      I will add this last thought....there is a trend in newspaper and local news station photographers being hired to grab video and photos as a solo gig, which either means hauling a camera and a camcorder, or one device that can do both. A lot of the DSLR cameras implement these long GOP video algorithms with audio as well, and there are lots of people working in this direction. If Adobe doesn't reach out to people such as this, someone else will. If Adobe doesn't provide the support, then they lose the customer to someone who will provide it.
                                                      • 24. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                        TradeWind Level 3
                                                        David,

                                                        Not sure what alarmed you. Having not used CS4 yet - nor edited AVCHD footage - I would expect AVCHD playback on a PC to be smooth and fluid as well. I don't recall claiming otherwise...?

                                                        I haven't heard anyone talking about a difference in speed for handling of AVCHD files in a "Mac vs. PC" context.
                                                        • 25. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                          Level 1
                                                          > Not sure anyone's trying to mitigate the facts surrounding original
                                                          > intent...we're all just trying to get some work done, and for some of us,
                                                          > the best way may be AVCHD.

                                                          Hey, if editing AVCHD works best for you, that's great. Others who are
                                                          trying same will ask questions about your workflow, and no doubt your
                                                          responses will be most helpful for them.

                                                          That said, I predict a wave of complaints of the form, "CS4 is too slow or
                                                          crashes etc when editing this or that delivery codec", and I think it's not
                                                          only fair, but also quite useful to suggest they consider conversion to a
                                                          codec specifically designed for editing.

                                                          Best,
                                                          Christopher
                                                          • 26. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                            >which doesn't mean it can't be used for something else.

                                                            True, but like the ferris wheel analogy, you must accept whatever inherent limitations exist when using something for purposes it wasn't designed for. Or you must figure out a way to overcome those limitations (Cineform).

                                                            >Not sure anyone's trying to mitigate the facts surrounding original intent

                                                            I interpreted King's comment as heading in that direction.

                                                            >Adobe wouldn't have gone to the trouble of implementing AVCHD if there wasn't a sizable demand for AVCHD as a source format.

                                                            I agree. I wasn't arguing that point. But I would add that consumer demand for a bad idea doesn't necessarily then make it a good idea.

                                                            > would expect AVCHD playback on a PC to be smooth and fluid as well. I don't recall claiming otherwise...?

                                                            Harm said in another thread say that he saw some examples of AVCHD editing on an 8 core rig at IBC and even that was sluggish.
                                                            • 27. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                              Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                              Actually Jim, I did not see it. I specifically asked the Adobe rep at IBC about his experience with AVCHD and he told me that he has been testing it extensively on an 8-core Mac and he found it very sluggish. He gave a very distinct impression he would stay far from editing that kind of material personally. He only edited AVCHD because it was part of his job to test it, but it was no pleasure he admitted.
                                                              • 28. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                Thank you for the correction.
                                                                • 29. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                  Level 1
                                                                  comments were directed at Jorge, sorry Christian :-) I don't see a way to "quote" on the ADobe forum website here where I type and had to scroll back to see who had made the comments.

                                                                  Now, that said, I have not purchased CS4 yet, and so, I should try the product for myself, on my own system and then judge. I realize that there are so many factors which are present, which can results in problems for users.

                                                                  Dave.
                                                                  • 30. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                    Level 1
                                                                    > If a product tells me that it supports AVCHD, I should be able to drag and
                                                                    > drop it, like any other video, and I should never even notice that it is
                                                                    > AVCHD footage.

                                                                    Support should not be interpreted to mean excellent performance. If you
                                                                    think "supports AVCHD" implies you will never notice a difference in
                                                                    performance compard to say, a Cineform codec, I predict you are going to be
                                                                    very dissapointed.

                                                                    Best,
                                                                    Christopher
                                                                    • 31. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                      TradeWind Level 3
                                                                      > ...consumer demand for a bad idea doesn't necessarily then make it a good idea.

                                                                      Sure it does...just look at Taco Bell. It makes your body do strange things, but it does taste good. Sometimes.

                                                                      I wonder why we put such things in our bodies, must be repressed self-loathing that rears itself around 1:30am. Maybe part of me knows that I'll never finish reading all the books on my nightstand unless I have nothing else to do but sit and read.

                                                                      In all seriousness (mostly), when I consider AVCHD products in my purchasing decision, I am readily accepting the reduced quality when compared to the myriad superior options, while also accepting the generally lower price tag. But that's just me...clearly the world is not short on folks who jump into a wood chipper feet first only to discover the inevitable result. Which is...well, Taco Bell meat, I suppose.
                                                                      • 32. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                        Level 1
                                                                        > the world is not short on folks who jump into a wood chipper feet first
                                                                        > only to discover the inevitable result.

                                                                        That explains the loud screaming when users edit clips with GOP compression.

                                                                        Best,
                                                                        Christopher
                                                                        • 33. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                          Ulf Laursen Level 1
                                                                          I have both HDV and AVCHD camera, and I love both. I have accepted as a fact (for me at least) that editing native AVCHD is a big challenge.

                                                                          Therefore I convert to either AVI or HDV before editing.

                                                                          I know it takes a while (up to 1-to-1 in time on quadcore), but I put it into my workflow as I do with tape capture, and therefore it's no big deal for me.

                                                                          It seems like a big challenge to make smooth realtime playback of AVCHD, so instead of supporting natively import of it, I cuold surgest that Adobe could perhaps use the effort to make a good AVCHD to xxx converter, that would be fast and utilize multicores etc. Edius has a good converter that converts to Canopus HQ codec f.ex.

                                                                          At http://www.vasst.com/product.aspx?id=bf3e2d5a-7c2e-4969-a8dd-7cee2cefba30 you can get an AVCHD -> HDV converter for $49.

                                                                          In the perfect world it would of course have been the best to smoothly edit native AVCHD, but I haven't tried any NLE that does yet, even on quadcore PC.

                                                                          /Ulf
                                                                          • 34. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                            In a perfect world there'd be no cameras that use GOP compression.
                                                                            • 35. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                              For CS3 I got MainConcept MPEG Pro HDV.

                                                                              You could also try renaming your files and then importing into CS4 (assuming it supports them out of the box). Try putting an extension of .m2ts instead of .mts (assuming you got a Sony cam like I do ;)

                                                                              P.
                                                                              • 36. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                                Thrill Media Level 2
                                                                                Never seen a perfect world. ;) Things are changing quickly in the video world. The HMC150 does have it's merits, 1920x1080 capture and cheaper cards for example. I can see why people would want to skip the conversion step in a tapeless workflow. Also, I think if a product states it supports it then it should handle it seamlessly, as others are doing.

                                                                                I guess you have to pay somewhere... cheaper camera = more expensive computer? I think Adobe will get it ironed out but I do think you are gonna need a honkin' machine to get it done.
                                                                                • 37. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                                  Sheri Codiana Level 1
                                                                                  (Hi Jeff!) Things have been a little busy but I try to at least glance through the forums on a semi-regular basis.

                                                                                  I need to confirm this and find a place to post it on Adobe.com, but here's a UI perspective of what is different from Trial and Retail installations for Adobe Premiere Pro CS4:

                                                                                  - AVCHD, HDV, XDCAM sequence presets are not included in a trial install
                                                                                  - AVCHD, HDV, Sony XDCAM are not included as options in Custom Edit modes
                                                                                  - AME Export does not include {MPEG4, MPEG2, MPEDG2-DVD, MPEG2-Blu-ray} as export formats
                                                                                  - The file importer does not recognize file types that are not included in Trial mode (i.e. MPEG and XDCAM files)
                                                                                  - HDV is not included as a capture format (Mac)
                                                                                  - Title templates are included in Trial
                                                                                  - Speech to Text dictionaries are included in Trial
                                                                                  • 38. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                                    Arg... I just spent several hours to download the trial in an attempt to determine if CS4 would natively edit AVC files created from a Hauppauge 1212 HD-Pvr. Adobe advertises the trial as being everything, just limited to 30days. This forum is the only place I've heard that AVC support isn't in the trial. Can someone answer my questions that has the full version:

                                                                                    1. Can .ts, .mts, and .m2ts files all be imported?
                                                                                    2. Can these files be edited natively, where no conversion to another format is required?
                                                                                    3. Can the cuts-only edited footage be exported to the same format(saving to a .ts, .mts, or m2ts file) without re-rendering???

                                                                                    Thanks. =alanjudy
                                                                                    • 39. Re: CS4 & AVCHD
                                                                                      Havalilsi Level 1
                                                                                      I just downloaded the trial and a tutorial on AVCHD workflow only to realize there was no AVCHD support. I'm still waiting for my upgrade to be shipped so I guess I have to just sit tight. I'm glad for this forum, because at least it gave me insight into what is not included in the trial.
                                                                                      1 2 Previous Next