16 Replies Latest reply on Dec 16, 2008 7:20 PM by (tlc51369)

    HDV workability in CS4

      Hi all,

      I'm interested to know if PPro CS4 handles HDV more efficiently than CS3.

      My experience, particularly with large HDV files (long captures of theatre shows, conferences, timelapse meaning often around 12gig files), is that CS3 and CS2 both had seriously frustrating issues such as taking over 5min to simply open a project with many large files, and taking forever (again often over 1minute) when switching back to Premiere from working in AE or PS.

      Also importing HDV clips captured with any other program for scene splitting purposes (HDV Split, Sony Browser/Capture utility) takes a very very long time in indexing/conforming.

      Can anyone say whether HDV is now finally as smooth as DV editing, and whether the indexing/conforming time has improved?

      My hardware:
      Core2Duo 8200
      Vista Ult 64
      Nvidia 9800GT
      4g Ram
      Sata II drives
        • 1. Re: HDV workability in CS4
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          > Can anyone say whether HDV is now finally as smooth as DV editing, and whether the indexing/conforming time has improved?

          No.
          • 2. Re: HDV workability in CS4
            For me it works better, but i heave problem to export back to tape with sopme dropped frames etc.
            Will instal back CS3 and than will compare if this is a CS4 problem or something with my project/computer/camera.
            • 3. Re: HDV workability in CS4
              Level 1
              People,
              I solve the problem :-)

              I install CS3 and export to tape and there was no problem.

              So the solution for that is:
              1. Did everything (editing etc.) on CS4
              2. Export to uncompressed avi
              3. Load CS3
              4. Import this avi file
              5. Export to tape (works fine).

              I don't know if other has the same problem, but i get it.

              I've got quad 2,4 Ghz processor, 1 disk for OS, 2xRAID0 (2x2 disks).
              My camera is Sony HC3.
              • 4. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                Level 1
                > I solve the problem :-)

                Well done. I'm truely amazed at the lenghts people will go to avoid
                converting a long GOP codec to a codec better suited to edting.

                Best,
                Christopher
                • 5. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                  Level 1
                  Christopher,
                  You sugest that there is better solution?
                  Can you give us a tip?

                  I'm just confused why it's not working on CS4 and it's working on CS3.
                  • 6. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                    Level 1
                    > You sugest that there is better solution?
                    > Can you give us a tip?

                    Sure. I've posted on this topic numerous times so you might try a search as
                    well. "Better" is a matter of opinion, and YMMV. HDV uses long GOP
                    compression that was designed for delivery, and not specifically designed
                    for editing. Many consumers (and no doubt some pros) don't want to spend
                    money for codecs and other applications to improve the workflow and are
                    willing to put up with the inherent issues of editing a long GOP codec.
                    Some editors prefer to convert HDV to a codec better suited to editing (e.g.
                    Cineform CFHD) before importing into Premiere or AE. Cineform offers free
                    trials so you can try before you buy.

                    Though some will disagree, I look forward to a release of Premiere that
                    works somewhat analogous to Photoshop. Photoshop can import and export a
                    myriad of formats, but supports one internal format. Perhaps CS5 or CS6
                    will use this architecture.

                    Best,
                    Christopher
                    • 7. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                      Level 1
                      Thanks a lot for that tip.
                      Will try it for sure.

                      I had problem when i export with speed like 3500% which i think it's what you talking about.
                      But i just choose in context menu -> Field Options -> Always deinterlace and that helps.

                      But i think with the problem which i had in CS4 it's just a bug in the software.

                      I import exported uncompresed microsoft avi file to CS4 and try to export to tape and still had that problem.
                      But when i did it CS3 i didn't had that problem.
                      It's something with recording to tape not with the GOP. It's just freeze recording for half secoond or something like that.
                      Strange.

                      Anyway it was nice to hear something from more expirence guy ;)
                      Thanks a lot.
                      • 8. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                        Level 1
                        Thanks for teh responses, I haven't posted here for a while. Not sure about jumping into the upgrade, though having separate settings for different sequences and batchable output is something I've been much looking forward to.

                        About the long GOP format, I guess this technology was never expected to last this long. It perhaps wasn't introduced as an editing format, but it wasn't introduced as a delivery format either, since we've never been able to 'deliver' a finished piece as HDV, unless it's back to tape which is rarely used I suspect for delivery. It certainly was brought in as an aquisition format though, as a step up to HD while still working in a firewire based workflow. It's just crazy that it's been around so long now and it still seems to be unworkable.
                        And with Sony bringing out new pro level HDV cameras with tapeless workflow, looks like HDV is here for a while.

                        Would be nice not to have to fork out $$ to do something the software itself is already designed to do. Storage is also a big issue.

                        Christopher, with cineform can you say how long it would take to convert a 12gig HDV file to something more editable, and how much space the new file would take up?

                        Thanks.
                        • 9. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                          Harm Millaard Level 7
                          Your best answer can be found by using the trial on your machine. That will show you the time and space required, but calculate around triple the original size.
                          • 10. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                            Level 1
                            > Christopher, with cineform can you say how long it would take to convert a
                            > 12gig HDV file to something more editable, and how much space the new file
                            > would take up?

                            Regarding performance, Cineform apps do really well on multiple CPUs, so
                            you'll have to run it on your system to get conversion times. Regarding
                            space, figure about 3x increase.

                            Best,
                            Christopher
                            • 11. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                              Level 1
                              PS: I don't have CS4 yet. Cineform has an excellent track record of
                              supporting new releases, but please kick the tires first or check their
                              website.

                              Best,
                              Christopher
                              • 12. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                                Level 1
                                Will do. Thanks for your responses.

                                frop.
                                • 13. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                                  Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                  Hmmm. Is Adobe going into a new venture in this economy?
                                  • 14. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                                    My workflow has always been to use the scene detect feature and work with individual clips. With hdv and CS3/4 this is not possible - you can only capture one huge file, or perhaps (haven't tried yet) you can manually set in/out points but what a waste of time when you're dealing with a four-camera project and two or three tapes per camera!

                                    Am thinking of buying Vegas 8 to capture with if it does scene detect and actually creates separate clip files (anyone know if it does?)

                                    As for those thinking of a cheaper way out, Pinnacle Studio 11 has scene detect but it's with virtual clip files - you still get one long physical file and it doesn't appear to be compatible with CS4.
                                    • 15. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                                      Level 1
                                      >As for those thinking of a cheaper way out

                                      HDVSplit. It's free and I've read it works great with Premiere Pro and it has scene detect.
                                      • 16. Re: HDV workability in CS4
                                        Level 1
                                        > With hdv and CS3/4 this is not possible -

                                        Scene detection is supported by Cineform. You can convert to CFHD and split
                                        on the fly. It's also multithreaded and performs well on multiprocessors.

                                        If you are trying to edit HDV on the cheap, there's HDVSplit, assuming you
                                        have the patience to edit the HDV codec.

                                        Best,
                                        Christopher