17 Replies Latest reply on Dec 3, 2008 11:05 AM by Jim_Simon

    Thought I would have worked this out by now....

    shooternz Level 6
      I have done five or six projects now in CS4 and thought I would have worked this out by now....

      Track Targeting.

      Well I havent and dont think I ever will!

      It seems to have control and undesired effect over paste functions as well as Pg Up/Pg Dn.

      For me this is a fiddly and time consuming way to do what was so easy in CS3.

      Still want to know who asked for this, why it was needed and who beta tested it.

      Does anyone prefer it over CS3? (Beta testers obviously did)

      BTW - I also think the whole CS4 timeline interface is no where near as responsive and smooth as CS3.

      and - I have discovered that occasionally trimming a clip in the timeline plays back differently between Spacebar and scrub. eg scrubbing the clip plays more or less frames than those that play if "spacebar" is used.
        • 1. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
          Level 1
          >BTW - I also think the whole CS4 timeline interface is no where near as responsive and smooth as CS3.

          I can't compare to CS3 but to CS2 I totally agree! Especially when you try and move the timeline with the zoom bar at the top. In cs2 this was easy as butter. With CS4 it is hard to tell where you are moving to. It is either way to slow or it moves way to far to fast. It seems like there is no control. Very frustrating!!!
          • 2. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
            joshtownsend Level 2
            They had to add some extra features so they would have an excuse why CS4 can't preform as well as the latest CS3 does.

            I wonder who asked for speech analysis? You'd think little things like getting the updater to work would trump any new features like this.

            Adobe seems to throws in useless stuff to get people to upgrade. Then you come here and wonder why a brand new CS4 can't even do stuff that CS3 can't.

            Well it works 'better' with Vista 64 now even though it's a 32 bit program. You'd think Adobe could at least release a white paper about this. Nobody can give a straight answer. AE spawns a program for each core you select and each can use up to four gigs. But that doesn't happen when you use premiere and AME.

            Same as the three different Mpeg 2 presets 29.976 and 29.97 drop frame and 23.976 progressive. They all end up the same size so whats that difference? Point me to a link that explains it.

            Having CS4 PAR issues with Premiere? Here's a link to AE help and an AE video about PAR. Makes complete sense. NOT.

            Sorry for complaining and all I know the Adobe apologists hate me for complaining but damn is it to much to expect a program that's been around forever to be as stable and usable at the .0 release?

            I can name over a dozen pro apps that at least work as good as there last release as they do with a new .0 release.
            • 3. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
              Curt Wrigley Level 4
              Josh, Most of these items adobe has responded to including a detailed post on these fora about the PAR change. Adobe has produced more free tutorials for this release than any other and there are plenty of 3rd party tutorials as well. So, what is your question? The fora is for asking for help, or providing it; ranting is for myspace.

              Craig; Track targeting is Im guessing for most folk more troublesome than helpful. I believe it is an attempt to provide more detailed control for media types with multiple audio tracks and complex timelines. Im not abig fan of the implementation myself as it requires (IMHO) a pretty specific circumstance where it is useful. More often it is annoying.

              Curt
              • 4. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                shooternz Level 6
                You are right Curt - "troublesome"

                Track Targeting would be great for maybe 1% of the edits I do. (and my editing really does stretch Premiere at times eg keying, compositing,graphics, synch sound, DL etc..)

                The other 99% of my edits were easily managed by CS3 "track system".

                My feeling is that for 99% of my edits I have lost speed, flexibilty and efficiency. The 1% has no value and I could easily work around it.

                CS3 is very fast edit system. CS4 is now a bit like FCP (slower and more mouse driven) I am speaking from some experience with both NLEs.

                BTW - this is not quite a show stopper for me but it is a major dissapointment that it got introduced without rhyme or reason.
                • 5. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                  I'm still at a loss here. If the new system has a default that does not need to be touched and which which works for probably 99% of edits, then what are you doing that makes it a pain for 99% of your edits?
                  • 6. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                    shooternz Level 6
                    It does need to be "touched" if you move around the tracks (layers).

                    Try it and see if you like how it works Jim.

                    Particularly ... checkout pg dn/up as it relates to Track Targeting. (It gets real crazy to manage when there are J or L cuts in the timeline)

                    The new system is set up for complex targeting. eg Lifts and Overlays. It is very unsuited to simple edits of which 99% of mine are.
                    • 7. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                      "Touched" if you move them, or if you add edits to other than the default track 1? I'd expect the new scheme is irrelevant when moving clips from one track to another, no? And I'd expect most edits are to the default track 1, no? This is why I'd expect no difference for 99% of edits.

                      (I'm still awaiting the funds for the upgrade. All three of my computers had to be rebuilt recently. "When it rains, it pours.")
                      • 8. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                        shooternz Level 6
                        Editing to track one Video and track one audio although not the same as before, is as easy as before but who does that.

                        Most of my edits consist of a minimum of 5 video and three stereo audio (and up to 8 or 9 video) tracks. Thats when it all gets interesting! It is significantly more cumbersome in CS4 than it is in CS2/3.

                        I switch between CS3 and CS4 (on a daily basis at the moment) so the differences are very highlighted to me. CS3 is mostly shortcuts and CS4 is a lot of Mr Mouse. (as in "Mickey")
                        • 9. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          >Most of my edits consist of a minimum of 5 video and three stereo audio (and up to 8 or 9 video)

                          Ah. That was the answer I was looking for when I asked what you were doing that makes the new system a pain for you, cause I do think that most edits overall will edit to the default track 1, where the new system makes little difference.
                          • 10. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                            shooternz Level 6
                            >cause I do think that most edits overall will edit to the default track 1, where the new system makes little difference.

                            Its not quite like that. Default would be the wrong term in this instance and not to Track 1 either.

                            Its impossible for me to satisfactorily explain it to you ...because I cant really fathom it myself. (I might need to go to Film School.)
                            • 11. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                              It's tough me not being able to see it in action. But I did get to see Avid in action, and I assume the Premiere method is similar if not identical.

                              In the sequence, V1 and A1 are targeted by default, yes? Then when you load a clip into the Source Monitor, the Source Track Indicator defaults also to V1 and A1 (assuming the clip has both video and audio), yes? So when you set the clip's In and Out points and add to the sequence, it adds video to V1 and audio to A1, yes?

                              Only if you need video or audio to other tracks do you need to interfere with the default behavior, yes?
                              • 12. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                                shooternz Level 6
                                There is no Default. ie. Targeted tracks remain where you last left them. (Remember this fact)

                                You will be surprised once you get your hands on it how clunky this targeting is in practice.

                                Targeting Tracks affects Insert/Overlay and other functions such as Pg Dn/ Pg Up (Go to Head/Tail of Next Clip).

                                Previous behaviour was no matter what track was targeted Pg DN/Pg Up would toggle back and forward to next end of a clip the CTI found.

                                Now if no Track is Targeted. Pg Up /Pg Dn goes no where. It needs a Target Set.

                                So an example : To paste a clip (eg a Title) directly above another clip (same start). You Target the lower Clip track and "navigate" to it then you un target that track and target another to paste to. You may need to untarget more than one.

                                So ..this behaviour is also the same for any Insert or Overlay editing from the source monnitor (I asked you to remember "Targeted tracks remain where you last left them.").

                                It is now easier and quicker to mouse drag stuff than to use KB shortcuts. That is less dependent on Track targets.

                                Hey Jim - why not get the trial vers. so we can hear what you think with a bit of hands on experience? You pushed for Pg Dn/Pg Up behaviour. You got it.
                                • 13. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                  >Targeted tracks remain where you last left them.

                                  Assuming you haven't moved them yet, that would be V1 and A1, yes? (Hence..."default")

                                  >Previous behaviour was no matter what track was targeted Pg DN/Pg Up would toggle back and forward to next end of a clip the CTI found.

                                  I actually didn't like that and changed the keyboard preference to move only to the next edit in targeted tracks, so it sounds like the default behavior is now just the way I like it.

                                  2.0 and CS3 had both options available. Is that not so for CS4?

                                  >To paste a clip (eg a Title) directly above another clip (same start).

                                  I guess I've just always used the mouse for that, which is why I'm not seeing the new scheme as a big deal for most editing conditions.

                                  I mean, you need the mouse to load the clip in Source. Using the mouse to navigate large moves is easier than using the keyboard. As long as my hand is on the damn thing anyway, why not make it easy and drag it down to the sequence?

                                  >You pushed for Pg Dn/Pg Up behaviour.

                                  Actually, I campaigned for the return of the Home/End "clip" shortcuts. (Start of clip if one is selected, start of sequence if no clip is selected.) Has that been returned as Wil said it would?
                                  • 14. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                                    Eddie Lotter Level 4
                                    >Has that been returned as Wil said it would?

                                    See Keys for the Timeline in the PPro CS4 Help.

                                    Read it and weep. (With joy)


                                    Cheers
                                    Eddie

                                    PremiereProPedia   ( RSS feed)
                                    - Over 300 frequently answered questions
                                    - Over 250 free tutorials
                                    - Maintained by editors like you
                                    Forum FAQ
                                    • 15. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                      Well, it's not quite there yet, but it's getting better. Ideally the modifier would be whether or not a clip is selected (as it used to be), rather than an extra keyboard button.

                                      I just don't understand why humans "fix" things that ain't broke.
                                      • 16. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                                        creig bryan-mUOxt4 Level 1
                                        > I just don't understand why humans "fix" things that ain't broke.

                                        Now, that sounds like Randy Pausch. But, have you read the book yet, Jim Simon?

                                        Keep Smiling
                                        • 17. Re: Thought I would have worked this out by now....
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                          I'm definitely more into fiction. My next book will be the newest Mitch Rapp novel by Vince Flynn.