1 2 Previous Next 47 Replies Latest reply on Sep 28, 2009 6:33 PM by the_wine_snob

    SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!

    fuaho Level 1
      After using AVID Express Pro for tape-based DV format, I moved into a Hi Def, Tapeless 1280x720p MJPEG format. Installed an old version of Premiere 6.0, made a custom project, imported footage and successfully edited and exported. Playback was a little choppy, but not bad. Renders took awhile but completed successfully and exports using the LEAD MJPEG codec were fine, played well in Windows Media Player and looked great.

      Laid out $3000 for a brand new computer - Q9550 quad processor @2.83GHz, 8GB DDR3 RAM @1.333 GHz, 1 TB Raid 10, Intel DX48BT2MB, nVidia GTX 260XXX CPU, etc and upgraded to Production Premium Pro CS4.

      What a waste of money!!!

      If I open a previous project, Premiere does some conversion to it - there is no choice to skip the conversion - that first of all shifts the reds about 300 pixels to the right. There is the red line indicating that the entire timeline needs to be rendered. After rendering, the image in the program window is about half the height that it should be with everything squashed down. I have set up a custom project that is 1280x720p, 30fps as the default new project, but that makes no difference.

      If I simply import a file, it plays fine and looks fine.

      OK, so I opened a project, deleted all the media and relinked all the files. It still indicated that it needed to be rendered and did the same thing - squashing everything to half height.

      Apparently, all the work done previously is useless because I've tried opening and importing and nothing works!

      I opened another project I had done that is not 16:9 and was able to get it to import the files. In this case, they were all stills cut to music - sent it to Encore and was able to make a Flash file, but it would never build for a DVD even though there were no errors listed when the file was checked. Clicking "Transcode Now" caused Encore to crash!

      I opened a new 1280x720p project and created a new Universal Counting Leader. Tried to export the media as 1280x720 and AME crashed.

      I'm always willing to give a new piece of software the benefit of the doubt because of the inevitable operator errors and learning curve, but not in this case because there is no reason for these things to be happening! I've successfully done projects in AVID without incident for years and Premiere 6 recently, and the new computer has been rock solid with other applications like Photoshop.

      If anyone has any insights into why there are all these problems, I'd appreciate their expertise. All the stuff about latest drivers, etc has no bearing because the machine is less than a month old and CS4 is the only thing on it other than the drivers for the Blu-Ray disk, AVG Internet Suite and Microsoft Office, USB keyboard & USB trackball.

      TIA,
        • 1. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          MJPEG may be your problem.
          • 2. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
            Curt Wrigley Level 4
            I wouldnt base your opinion the importing a project from SW 5 releases old.

            Try it out with some new projects.
            • 3. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
              runamokusa Level 1
              Can't you just keep 6 on your system for your older work and go forward with CS4?
              • 4. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                juskocf Level 1
                Hi, William, in your case of squashed down preview, I suggest you select Microsoft Video 1, uncompressed UYVY.. etc in the video preview codec. (i.e. Sequence-Sequence Settings-Video Preview-Codec-)
                The culprit may be the default DV(24p Advanced) codec.

                CS4 ppro will crash when I edit my Panasonic 720p Mjpeg movie just by some playing and scrubbing of the timeline. But it has never been a problem with CS3.
                • 5. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                  fuaho Level 1
                  @jusko:

                  Thank you that did indeed solve the squashdown problem.

                  Why that is a separate item that does not appear when a project is initially setup makes no sense at all! Everything else is set to 1280x720p, 30fps, 16:9, square pixels and the sequence video preview defaults to DV???? Hello!

                  FWIW, you might want to check out the LEAD MJPEG codec. It's only $10 and gives a load of control over the avi files it creates. It might help with your problems. There is a demo so you can try it for free:

                  http://www.leadcodecs.com/Codecs/LEAD-MCMP-MJPEG.htm

                  HTH

                  @Runamok:

                  I'd love to, but Premiere 6 will not install on a 64-bit machine. Returns a message saying "This is a valid copy, but it is not for this machine" and install stops.

                  @Curt:

                  I don't know of any projects that stop long enough to just quit working on them and start up a new one. There is no reason why there should not be backward compatibility for a simple "cuts only" transition to a new version of this software. And trying to maintain multiple computers/software/projects is truly a recipe for additional brain damage!

                  @Harm:

                  No MJPEG is not the problem because the LEAD Codec is installed and recognized. Source and (now, thanks to jusko) Program monitors display fine and I was finally able to create a test DVD from the HiDef material, though the "stills-with-music" project still does not transcode.

                  @Everyone: Thanks for your input. I'm trying to work through the crashes and glitches, but unfortunately there are real world considerations that make extensive beta testing and R&D non-cost effective. This platform has been around long enough that it should not be having these kinds of issues in 2008. I haven't had a crash in Photoshop since version 2.5!

                  TIA,
                  • 6. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                    Curt Wrigley Level 4
                    Please consider the possibility that the sw, though not bug free- as any complex product is not) is working pretty well, that it is simply a matter of understanding it that is the problem. If Pr was as bad as you claim, it would not even be a product.

                    By making wild blanket accusation you paint yourself into a bad corner.
                    • 7. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                      >I moved into a Hi Def, Tapeless 1280x720p MJPEG format.

                      What video camera uses that!?
                      • 8. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                        juskocf Level 1
                        Hi, Jim, usually, video camera will not use 1280x720p MJPEG format, but some digital cameras do use this format for movie recording. My Panasonic DC also uses such format and I used to edit the video in CS3 ppro without any problem. But now cs4 doesn't support that format.

                        I wonder why even such formats as ipod, cif etc for mobile devices are listed as available presets, while the quite popular mjpeg is not accepted.
                        • 9. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          I'm guessing those presets are for final output, not input sources.

                          But in this case, the old saw about using the right tool for the job may be useful advice. Shoot video with a video camera. Shoot stills with your Panasonic.
                          • 10. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                            juskocf Level 1
                            But isn't the Sequence Presets are for input file format ? Why the presets of "Mobile and Devices" are for final output while other presets are for input sources ?
                            • 11. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                              I could be guessing wrong.
                              • 12. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                fuaho Level 1
                                From wikipedia MJPEG:

                                "Motion JPEG uses intraframe coding technology that is very similar in technology to the I-frame part of video coding standards such as MPEG-1 and MPEG-2, but does not use interframe prediction. The lack of use of interframe prediction results in a loss of compression capability (meaning that there is less compression applied, therefore better image quality), but eases video editing, since simple edits can be performed at any frame when all frames are I-frames.

                                ...

                                Digital Video (DV) adopts a similar method by compressing video frames individually.

                                ...

                                MJPEG is an outdated and inefficient codec (as far as maximum compression is concerned), whose main advantages are low processor overhead, ease of editing, ease of implementation by developers using existing JPEG algorithms or libraries, and broad compatibility."

                                Yeah! Can't imagine why anyone would want to use that for acquisition.
                                • 13. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                  VideoDerk
                                  I agree this version of Premiere sucks
                                  On a Mac it cannot even import/open older versions of Premiere
                                  Completely crazy
                                  Furthermore 6 was a lot better with less stupid restrictions. (for example I could change important project settings
                                  Looks like Adobe does not use their own software. Getting as bad as Microsoft
                                  Feel very bad having bought this
                                  As far as your issues. Nothing to do with you. Just bad software
                                  • 14. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                    >Furthermore 6 was a lot better with less stupid restrictions. (for example I could change important project settings

                                    Create a new sequence that has the settings you want.
                                    • 15. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                      fuaho Level 1
                                      @Harm:

                                      Thanks for your creative insights and helpful information.

                                      Now, what have we learned that brings something of benefit?

                                      Curt Wrigley has mentioned that he works in DV & HDV and successfully creates Blu-Ray, DVD and web-based projects. And that is exactly my point. If you are working in 720x480 output for DVD types of projects, or smaller, or crushing your output, AME will export OK.

                                      However, that's it. It will not Export a HiDef avi file unlike Premiere 6 where you could Export to whatever you wanted.

                                      As a control, I loaded the same piece of footage into both Premiere CS4 and After Effects CS4. Used exactly the same settings with exactly the same encoder - LEAD MJPEG - at 1280x720p 30fps, 44.1kHz, etc, etc, etc to make an avi file.

                                      After Effects "Make Movie" did exactly that. It made a high quality, 1280x720p avi file. AME CRASHED.

                                      This is totally repeatable, so it is not the hardware, it is not some conflicting something or other, it is not the soundcard or any of the other things that people point the finger at.

                                      It IS AME!

                                      So, my question is:

                                      How do I bypass AME as the Export choice from Premiere Pro CS4 when I need to create a High Definition avi file?

                                      Exporting from the timeline is not the final step in my workflow, merely one step and the following ones need the best resolution I can provide.

                                      I do not see individual programs listed in the Add/Remove Programs section of Control Panel.

                                      Can I use the installer to remove individual components?

                                      Is there some switch/command line syntax that will bypass AME?

                                      Or...????????
                                      • 16. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                        akribie Level 2
                                        Since you use a third-party CODEC and the crashes occur whilst encoding with it, maybe you should look to LEAD, not here, for inspiration.

                                        Or maybe change to an alternative output format?

                                        Or perhaps go back to Premiere 6 if you think that workflow suits you better.

                                        But since we are users on this forum, not Adobe developers, and no-one else on this thread so far uses your workflow, I suspect you are wasting your time getting angry here.

                                        Time for a feature request/bug report at http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform ?
                                        • 17. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                          >How do I bypass AME as the Export choice

                                          Perhaps bring the project into AE for export, since that seems to work for you with your intended settings.
                                          • 18. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                            fuaho Level 1
                                            I don't know about my workflow, but if you look at the forums, you'll see that no one is having any luck exporting anything other than 720x480 in CS4. At least no one is reporting otherwise if they are.

                                            The LEAD codec is not the problem as I have explained in previous posts. Having done extensive research into codecs and output quality vs. encoding time vs. audio synchronization, the LEAD codec is the fastest and best quality I've found when exporting a HiDef avi file. The only alternative output format would be uncompressed and I only have a terabyte of storage, so that would get eaten up pretty quickly, not to mention the extensive waste of time to do all the exports/conversions while working with massively overblown files for no particularly good reason.

                                            I'd love to go back to Premiere 6, but, as I've explained before, it will not install on a 64-bit machine. If I try to run it from a previous install on a removable drive, it keeps reporting that memory is extremely low and will not run properly.

                                            Exporting a single clip through After Effects is fine. I haven't had a chance to test what happens with an imported timeline from Premiere yet. But, why can't Premiere simply export the same way as After Effects to begin with???

                                            As it seemed that there were Adobe folks that kept an eye on this forum, I am surprised that there have not been any "official" responses to this. Yes, a feature request now seems warranted, but I could not do that until I had satisfied myself that there is a problem. Since no one has responded with an actual solution other than work arounds or "OE" or "wasting your time" it is obvious that AME only does what it does, not what it should and needs to be modified to permit additional export formats such as were available in earlier versions of Premiere.

                                            I have already submitted one feature request because neither Premiere nor Soundbooth read Broadcast Wave Format metadata even though Audition does.

                                            Please, somebody prove me wrong and show me how to export a high quality, 1280x720p, 30fps avi file with a reasonable size!!!
                                            • 19. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                              shooternz Level 6
                                              >Please, somebody prove me wrong and show me how to export a high quality, 1280x720p, 30fps avi file with a reasonable size!!!

                                              I have no problem achieving this in CS3 (both avi and .mov) and expect to be able to do the same in CS4 without issue.

                                              AVI is simply an export movie workflow and .mov I encode thru AME. Both are full size uncompressed as per the timeline.

                                              I do not know why you would use the mjpeg codec if you want high quality! Even so, I can export all manner of compressed movies and achieve my image as 16:9. (ie I am not restrticted to SD at all).

                                              You are setting something wrong in the Encoder.
                                              • 20. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                                > I don't know about my workflow, but if you look at the forums, you'll see that no one is having any luck exporting anything other than 720x480 in CS4. At least no one is reporting otherwise if they are.

                                                Just made a wmvHD 720 25p, wonderfull quality.
                                                • 21. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                  joshtownsend Level 2
                                                  Not every codect is supported by cs4 yet. Like the Black magic codects. If you want to use those you have to wait until blackmagic makes them compatible with cs4.
                                                  • 22. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                    Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                                    > if you look at the forums, you'll see that no one is having any luck exporting anything other than 720x480 in CS4.

                                                    That is a wild baseless statement.

                                                    Do you expect someone who is doing their job routinely exporting media to take time to come to a user forum and say; Hey i just exported a movie successfully! Its happening 1000s of times a day. Why would someone report that on a forum.

                                                    Forums are where people come who need help with a problem they cant figure out. If you would stick to accurately reporting what problems you are having rather than baseless incorrect speculation, people might be a bit more inclined to want to help you.
                                                    • 23. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                      joshtownsend Level 2
                                                      Yep that's a bit over dramatic. Even though premiere screwed up with the 24pa pulldown I have rendered out dozens of HD .mov, mp4, dvd, blu-ray and they all work just like cs3.
                                                      • 24. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                        fuaho Level 1
                                                        @Craig Howard:

                                                        Expectations are not a valid response to my question. CS3 is not CS4.

                                                        It appears that you are not even using CS4 yet, and you obviously have no idea what the quality of a lightly compressed MJPEG is.

                                                        @Ann Ben:

                                                        Was that a 1280x720P, 25 fps, or a 720x480, 25p?

                                                        At any rate, .wmv is a highly compressed final release format like .mov, .mp4, MPEG-2, H.264 (Blu-Ray) etc. I have repeatedly stated that that is not the problem for me. I too can export a DVD at 720x480.

                                                        @Curt Wrigley:

                                                        I have reported everything I've done very accurately with no "wild, baseless statements." Look back through the forum. 720p is causing problems.

                                                        Everyone is starting to get into a flame mode here without knowing what they are talking about.

                                                        I asked a simple question: How do I export a 1280x720p, 30fps file from Premiere CS4 with a minimum of compression, e.g., using my codec of choice? Every time I do this from AME, it either crashes or looks dreadful.

                                                        No one has an answer so far. Every response is trying to convince me that it can be easily done and that people are doing it all the time, but no one is telling me how they've done it. What they ARE doing has no bearing on my question.

                                                        When you are looking at an upconverted, letterboxed 480i DVD encode you just made, on your 52-in plasma, you are not even close to what I am talking about.

                                                        We are projecting dual, Polarized 3D videos onto 35-foot wide screens from 2560x720p, 30fps, MJPEG avi files. At those sizes, high compression artifacts look like cinderblocks and encoding differences between the left & right images cause flicker and sizzle in the stereo image. If I used any of the available compression schemes in AME, the final imagery would be unwatchable.

                                                        So, please, people, don't escalate this into stupidity based on what you think "could" or "should" or "ought to be." I have done the tests. I have reported the results and I have yet to have anyone provide a functional, tested, technical response that resolves the problem.
                                                        • 25. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                          Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                                          Hmmm, a wmvHD 720x480?
                                                          • 26. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                            Eddie Lotter Level 4
                                                            I'm with you Ann, I'm beginning to see why he's having so many problems. :P
                                                            • 27. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                              joshtownsend Level 2
                                                              Here's a link to a 720p video I exported with cs4. http://www.vimeo.com/2074897.

                                                              I wouldn't compare mpeg and .mov The .mov is a wrapper and it supports uncompressed video. I've seen blue ray projected on a bigscreen at a few festivals. No bricks at all. Hell 1080 bluray done right looks less compressed than uncompressed 720p.

                                                              Why don't you try another codect or go uncompressed?
                                                              • 28. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                juskocf Level 1
                                                                I think William has problem working with MJPEG 720p in CS4. I also encounter crash problem in CS4 with MJPEG 720p but not in CS3.
                                                                • 29. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                  joshtownsend Level 2
                                                                  Ohh you mean motion j-peg Why not just use apple animation codect, they are pretty similar.

                                                                  I'll encode a 720 motion jpeg clip and try it out. I have the rig you do for the most part but I'm running vista 32.
                                                                  • 30. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                    juskocf Level 1
                                                                    The problem is when the source clip is motion jpeg 720p, and not export to mjpeg.
                                                                    • 31. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                      joshtownsend Level 2
                                                                      I made a 1280 x 720 motion jpeg a clip then started a custom project like you did. Couldn't replicate your problem.

                                                                      my specs q9550 OC @ 3.7, 4gb ddr2 1066, nvidia 8600gt, raptor bootdrive, 2 640gb in raid 0, and a few other 640gb WD. Boot, cache and media all on different hardrives.
                                                                      • 32. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                        Dag Norum Level 2
                                                                        josh,

                                                                        Please tell the guy in your (vimeo) video that there are easier ways to open a ketchup bottle.

                                                                        Dag
                                                                        • 33. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                          fuaho Level 1
                                                                          @To ALL:

                                                                          Would someone with Premiere Pro CS3 please list what appears when you click on File\Export...?

                                                                          Is Movie one of the choices, along with Still, Audio and AME?

                                                                          @Josh Townsend:

                                                                          Could you please be very specific about what you did? Especially how you Exported the 1280x720p MJPEG clip? The problem is not getting a clip into a project, but getting one out. If you've managed to accomplish this, we'd be very interested in knowing what your AME settings were.

                                                                          TIA,
                                                                          • 34. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                            joshtownsend Level 2
                                                                            You said something about DVD so I just set the NTSC High Quality and made a without changing anything. I played fine. I even brought it in Premiere and set it next to the 1280 mjpep and scrubbed around. Also made a quicktime H.264 file. Set quality high, bitrate 5,000, square pixals and well it worked.

                                                                            Sorry it's not much help I tried it. I also made the 1280x720 m-jpeg file in CS4 so everything was done in CS4 for me. If you wanna put a file online I'll try it on my system.

                                                                            What is bitrate are your files? What camera or program did you use to make the files?

                                                                            What's the difference between motion jpeg A and B?
                                                                            • 35. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                              fuaho Level 1
                                                                              @Josh:

                                                                              Thanks for taking the time to look into this and do some testing!

                                                                              As far as MJPEG A & B, let me refer you to this:

                                                                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG

                                                                              Regards,
                                                                              • 36. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                                joshtownsend Level 2
                                                                                Oh yeah I'm not using Lead's codect just whatever Adobe uses. Maybe CS4 doesn't work with that 3rd party codect as well.

                                                                                Also reading the Lead website it works with DirectShow another possible 3rd party conflict. http://www.leadcodecs.com/help/LEADMCMP_MJPEGCodec/

                                                                                something to look into. Maybe you need to install direct show. What camera did you use to shoot this with?
                                                                                • 37. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                                  joshtownsend Level 2
                                                                                  Maybe you need to install direct show. What camera did you use to shoot this with?

                                                                                  Also used .mov wrappers for the MJPEG files I created the first time. I own a blackmagic Intesity card and have a Blackmagic Mjpeg codect installed and when I tried to make an .avi it was the only choice I had unlike quicktime where I could choose between a or be. Premiere won't let me drag it in my 1280 custom preset error "definitions (width/hight) too large too large"

                                                                                  But It works in AE and looks hella good. AE also confirmed that it was 720x1280 23.976 fps just like I exported it. I think this is because Blackmagic hasn't updated everything for CS4. In CS3 there specific presets for various blackmagic codect setting so I'm sure for me it's a matter of them updating them.

                                                                                  To make thing even wierder, I imported the the AE comp with dynamic link and put it in the same timeline 720 sq pic timeline and IT WORKED. I rendered out premiere and got good results with quicktime and dvd-mpeg.
                                                                                  • 38. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                                    shooternz Level 6
                                                                                    >Is Movie one of the choices, along with Still, Audio and AME?

                                                                                    Correct.

                                                                                    You also should have absolute control of your Export image dimension in AME including how it is on the timeline. ie full size.

                                                                                    Reading back it seems your issue maybe a combination of the CODEC and the way you are setting AME up to export. Customise the Setting forma base preset. View the Out put TAB in AME.
                                                                                    • 39. Re: SO MANY PROBLEMS... I'M HATING CS4!!!
                                                                                      fuaho Level 1
                                                                                      @To ALL:

                                                                                      After an extensive session with Adobe Tech Support, it was confirmed by them that:

                                                                                      Premiere Pro CS4's AME cannot, in fact, output a 1280x720p movie file;

                                                                                      there is no way around using AME in CS4;

                                                                                      both After Effects CS4 and Premiere Pro CS3 can export a 1280x720p movie file just fine using the same codec and settings that cause AME to crash.

                                                                                      @jusko:

                                                                                      I'm sure you won't welcome this information anymore than I did.
                                                                                      Thank you for your assistance and support as we worked through this.

                                                                                      @Josh:

                                                                                      Thank you also for your assistance.

                                                                                      @Craig:

                                                                                      Thanks for your input re: CS3.

                                                                                      I'll be returning CS4 and trying to find somewhere that still has CS3 available since, unfortunately, Adobe has liquidated all of their stock.

                                                                                      Goodbye!
                                                                                      1 2 Previous Next