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Well Mr. Bomer that is good news. ;-)
Yet another version to add to your collection. LOL
You can check out my review. It's a free download at Muvipix.com.
Steve's review made it sound more like a bug-patch than a new version. ...At least from version 4.
But the upgrade sounds worth it from earlier versions. However, I'm a little confused about the upgrade requirements. Adobe says "To install this upgrade successfully, you will need a licensed version of any version of one of the products listed above on the same platform as this purchase".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but "on the same platform" makes it sound like you need to have the old version loaded for the upgrade to install. I'm currently still running v.2 on XP (since it won't run on Vista). Assuming I qualify for the v.7 upgrade, can I load it directly to a Vista computer (...which won't have v.2 installed)?
So the big question from me is will version 7 of both products fully support Vista 64-bit?
You will not need to have a previous version of the software on your computer in order to install you "upgrade", Jim. You get a full version of the software -- but at an upgrade price, if you currently own a version.
And, no, Chad, it is not 64-bit compatible. Although, as with previous versions, you can run it on a 64-bit machine in 32-bit compatability mode.
>Steve's review made it sound more like a bug-patch than a new version. ...At least from version 4
I would buy it for that reason alone if the bugs that bug me are gone, particularly poor stability with complex projects.
Why has Adobe ignored the need to support 64-bit OS's? Most new PCs (including the one I just purchased) come with 64-bit as the only option if you get 4GB of RAM or more. I love the Adobe products and want to continue to use them but if I have support issues I do not want to simply be given the line "we don't support 64-bit Vista."
I have been running Photoshop Elements 6 and Premiere Elements 4 on my new 64-bit Vista and they run fine until I start rendering a project in Premiere. That's when the system decides to blue screen. Of course Vista installs Premiere in 32-bit compatibility mode but I still have problems. I haven't tried changing the compatibility mode to "Windows XP SP2" yet just running it with the out of the box install. Does anyone know if using "WinXP" compatibility mode will solve some of these problems?
Not much extra info in that article Steve. It is disappointing that Adobe isn't keeping up with the hardware technology and providing official support for 64-bit (even in 32-bit compatibility mode). Ulead and I am sure others already support their products in full 64-bit mode. I guess I will look into those products instead of wasting $$$ on something that might work but without vendor support.
Support for AVCHD is mentioned, but in the context of reading the files and editing them. I didn't see any mention of being able to write AVCHD to DVD+R discs at full 1920x1080 resolution (assuming the camcorder recorded in that resolution). Several other products can do this so I hope Premiere Elements 7 can too.
The program will output a BluRay disc in AVCHD with full 1920x1080 resolution, Dale. But not, as far as I can see, a standard DVD.
Though, as I've said earlier in this post, for these high-level technical questions, it might be best to wait until the program's actual release date -- at which point an Adobe rep will likely appear on this forum to answer these kinds of questions.
Having read Steve's take on the 'new' version 7, it would seem as suggested by one of the earlier posts that the 'new' version is a patch for the truly abysmal version 4. Version 4 was put out to fulfill commercial conditions and not the needs of the end user. Version 7 should be better as they have had enough time to work on version 4, to put right the obvious bugs (there are enough, see the work around's in this and other forums) and then send it out as a new (old) version. It's not a rant. Even in Steve's write-up he says it's more stable and doesn't crash when making text animations in titles which is exactly the problem I had. Plus the hours upon hours waiting for the system to render, only to see it crash. Adobe should be ashamed of version 4.
I am truly looking forward to producing HDV to the same easy way as I used to when producing SDV in version 3 which was an absolute joy to use.
You'll certainly have the best success with any version if:
a) You've got a well maintained, up to date system
b) You've optimized your operating system so that it's not wasting resources
The more intensive work you do (and HDV is pretty darn intensive!) the more any imbalance in your system (or out of date firmware) is going to cause problems.
I can't guarantee version 7 will solve all of your problems. Version 4, after all, was very stable on my computer. That's why we always say, Your mileage may vary.
But, at least from what I can see, the team has really worked hard to chase the bugs from the program this version -- and add some nice new features too!
Many thanks for the response Steve. I poured over this forum to glean any information that I could. I performed the tasks in a) and b) including defragging the harddrives. You also posted a sort of step by step set of procedures that included trying to isolate a bad driver. I even addred a 500GB external harddrive to give the software 'space', but unfortunately to no avail. I didn't indicate my system setup, but I prefer to run XP Professional with service pack 3 rather than Vista. I have a GigaByte X48-DQ motherboard, an Intel 2.66ghz Core2 Quad Q9450 with 4GB ram and an ATI Radeon HD 3840 graphics card with a Creative Audigy Z2 audio card and based on your recommendations via the above all the drivers are up to date.
Anyway, I will of course read this forum with interest once the version 7 starts shipping as it really is a great piece of software when it works. It's just everything about it that makes it a pleasure to use. The guys at Adobe have had enough time to get 7(4) right...
Thanks, Steve, for the information about the new version 7. I'm still in doubt to spend money to buy this new version, because these "new" features really seem to be bug-fix. Despite my PC has a dedicated partition for video editing, without internet connection, defragmented every week, etc etc., I can confirm that PE4 is currently very unstable. You can verify it by the huge amount of posts during this year, regarding i.e. the scrolling clips, the title editing, the rendering that stops, the video porting to tape that suddenly stops before ending, the burning failure.....and so on.
IMHO, the "lesson learned" is: PE7 may appears as a bug-fix of the previous PE4. For this reason I believe that the users are not happy to pay to have a bug-fix, when they expected that ADOBE released it for free.
I'm convinced that the users will pay only to have more "value added" features! I bought an ADOBE product to have more quality and stability than Pinnacle Studio, but with PE4 I realized that it was not true...
This is disturbing.. I've been seriously considering dropping Studio for PE
due to all the problems I have had with it. However I am willing to see if
PE7 will be a lot better - personally I will take rock-solid reliability
over fancy features that do not get used much any day..wish the Vista team
thought that way..sigh.
quote:considering dropping Studio for PE....
You should do that. I had Studio 10 and every day I think why I didn't changed years before...
While PE4 provides a lot of improvements over PE3, it's certainly NOT very stable at all when working with HDV files. Despite what Steve Grisetti says, I've done ALL those suggested system tweaks and have ALL the latest drivers. While the improvements in rendering time and quality of effects make it a worthwhile package to use, to suggest it's even REMOTELY as stable as it should be is misleading at best. It crashes frequently when you try and apply text via the T icon or titles. It often has sound burps even using the latest Creative drivers with my X-Fi soundblaster card, and this seems to be project dependent, some projects ALWAYS have it even from a clean boot, others never have it.
It's just flakey, you have to save often, it will tend to crash for no good reason, and adding text or titles after you've been working in the software a while is a virtual GUARANTEED crash. All I can think of is the people testing never had a large-ish HDV project they ACTUALLY did any work on.
Having said that, it still provides the best effects, although they will also stop rendering after a while in large projects necessitating a reload, and the load time on projects with lots of HDV files is HORRENDOUS on ANY system.
AND YES I DID ALL THE OPTIMZATIONS SUGGESTED BY THIS FORUM AND ABOBE'S INFORMATIVE RELEASES AND TECH SUPPORT, including all those pointed to by Steve Grisetti above. It makes a slight difference but it's not that significant, load times and time to get back to the Adobe window when you switch to another window are VERY VERY LONG for HDV projects with many files.
I am ordering PE7 and hoping for the best, PE4 is full featured and offers fantastic control and gives great results, it just fights you with instability every inch of the way on ANY system I've ever tried it on. I have a 4GB system that is COMPLETELY stable, it never crashes on other software. Using a Quad Core Intel CPU, an Nvidia 8800 GTX video card with their latest release drivers, and a Sounblaster X-Fi Platinum sound card with their latest drivers, on 32-bit Vista.
PE4 was never very stable, despite what people on the boards here have suggested, but it's also the most full featured editor out there in this class by far, so it's sort of a love-hate thing. If PE7 addresses the stability concerns it will be well worth the price.
Sorry for the delay in responding, but I simply can't accept the note you made in your response that, "Version 4, after all, was very stable on my computer. That's why we always say, Your mileage may vary". If I can make a comparison, say you bought a Ferrari, you went to the dealer to pick it up and the salesman, just as he's handing over the keys says "Great choice sir, it works brilliantly on the forecourt, however, if you take it home, it may not start...". I don't buy a software so that "my mileage may vary", I buy a software so that I get the milage stated on the package.
Anyway, it's water under the bridge. Version 4 for the average man in the street did not live up to expectations. I'm sure 7 will be better. If I don't read anything about it in this forum, I know it will be.
The product's box touts the unqualified claim that the user will be able to create DVD's in 20 minutes. I bet I'm among the majority that says they can't come anywhere near that claim w/v4. Even loading small files took so much longer than in other similar programs I've used. I wanted this for the VST compatibility, yet several I want to use aren't recognized even though they are in Audition 1.5 and other hosts. I'm not at all unfamiliar to editing audio/video and my system is quite adequate. Doesn't matter, water over the bridge. The feedback here confirmed I'm not alone or in minority and it's been uninstalled and sits in the box. Not one to easily accept defeat after paying $99 for the disappointment, I returned to the forum to see if I could find solutions that might inspire me to re-install, but not only saw a new version being released, but that it seems to be the solution to the issues in v4, which is very disconcerting as I just recently bought it. Version 4 is still offered for purchase through the Adobe store (I purchased mine from Staples). Are there considerations for people that recently bought v4 and what might they be? Thanks.
Another interesting point about these wonderful Adobe people is that when they announce a product, you can't actually go into a shop to buy it. What actually is the point in actually announcing the 'availability' of a product when it's simultaneously not actually available. I want to be able to get it when they say it's available (to see if it's any better than that PE4 piece of rubbish). OK, for you guys in the States you should get your copies (if you want one) within a couple of weeks. Here in Hong Kong, I rang round a number of re-sellers and was quoted 2-3 weeks, which makes approx 5 in total the number of weeks since the announcement. That's also taking into account the probability that the guys in the respective shops were probably giving me the run around (a traditional Hong Kong trait I hasten to add).
In fact, I've heard a rumour that PE 9 is available...
..something I forgot to mention in my last post. The marketing men have announced the availability of a software again probably before the programmers are ready. We'll probably end up with another C: partition filler...
Guess it's up to you who you believe, Makiru. You can believe the stuff on the side the box, and probably be disappointed, or you can get real world advice from people who are successfully using the program.
Because I come from an advertising background, I view things like the marketing department's press releases and even the text on the boxes with interest and curiosity.
One observation that I have made over, and over: people will read the puff on what a program can do and take it as gospel. People will never read the "System Requirements/System Recommendations," or even the Read_Me file - ever!
What happens with the data on the side/back of the box are a set of "bullet-points." For the instances cited on the box, marketing has usually seen results, that mirror their statements. However, these results were obtained with perfect Assets on clean systems in the R&D department. I feel that the statments, based on the control tests, are possible. In the real world, users will throw all sorts of mixed Assets at the program, which is running on an ill-prepared, or marginal system, and expect the same results.
The majority of problems with most NLE's will be Assets. Next will be system problems. How many times have people tried to troubleshoot some Project, only to find that the OP really had basic I/O problems with their system - no free space, 10 year old processor, no RAM, all sorts of malware, etc.? Next, many of the problems are OE, or the operator expecting one thing, and not bothering to read and learn how to do it. Last, come the real bugs, but they are way down the list of problems. They DO exist, but in such tiny numbers as to be almost ignored. Usually, there is also a workaround available, if troubled users wish to finish their Project.
Excellent points, Hunt.
Hi guys, yes they are excellent points, but somewhat irrelevant. I work in the aviation field and when my operator comes in and says that the navigation lights or the toilets don't perform as per the spec, imagine how pissed off I get when the guys back in the office say 'well the design office says that in a laboratory environment they demonstrated the stated reliability'. Try explaining that to an airline that's just done a 13 hour flight with half the toilets inoperative (or the passengers).
A little info, long time ago I bought PE2, put it on my wife's laptop which had what ever the best specs were at the time. It worked beautifully and I made loads of great movies. PE3 came out, and from this very forum there were complaints that some of the really good stuff had been removed, undo, etc., so I missed that version because I really liked the stuff that wasn't included. Without any shadow of a doubt the interface and what PE can actually do are the best. Bar non. I even bought a copy of PowerDirector because I was so upset with PE4, but it's so amateurish and the interface so bad that I can't bring myself to use it. But, at least it didn't crash the couple of times I used it.
As you state, some people have so much other junk on their computer that they are lucky to get anything out of it. This was probably my case, as my 'old' pentium 4 hyperthreader on an Abit IC7 motherboard with a Radeon graphics card and 4GB ram with 800GB of disc space, probably upset the delicate balance of the software. I was running Windows XP, not that useless Mac op sys clone, Vista. So I actually went out and bought a new computer (to help PE4 as much as I could), well the components at least and had the guys in the shop put it all together with a brand spanking new Windows XP Professional with SP3. So I had an uncorrupted (nothing yet put on it) Gigabyte GA-X48-DQ6 motherboard, a pentium core 2 quad Q9450 processor with 4GB of ram and a Radeon HD 3840 graphics card. The soundcard was the admittedly 'old' Creative Audigy Z2 Platinum. And a wicked Blu-ray disc burner. The 800GB hard drive (two 400's in fact) had be formatted and so the system was 'squeaky clean'. It was, however, partitioned for other stuff, but I had a couple of partitions with at least 100GB free as I'd only just put the thing together. I installed McAfee (yes, I know, sorry) and really would only visit sites for official downloads. I have a laptop with just the op system for other types of download. So no malware. In fact, based on some of the advice in this forum I went out and bought a 500GB external WD hard drive for PE4 to 'use', re-installed PE4 and...the same.
The spec exceeded the requirement on the box (I didn't note however if it was required to use it in an oxygen tent) so I thought I was OK. The fact that I am writing this (as normally I am a reader of forums) means that I was at the and of my tether reading how to make it work after doing E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G Steve and the other equally frustrated people (well, except Steve, as he probably got Adobe's PE4 development cast off computer) wrote in this, and don't get me wrong, brilliant forum. Where else would I go to even remotely get the depth of information that is available here. So, please, do not give me 'System Specification' because it's only somewhere nice to hide. These people who programme should know what their end user is like, aren't they really one of us?
I really do not have the time to spend in forums. I want to create something. I want to transfer my HD data into a great looking movie. I don't have the time resource that people like yourself and Steve has. In fact I'm a bit like you Bill, I never read the stuff on the side of the box. And until PE4, I've really never had to. It's the first time, the first time, that I've had so much trouble with a software. And I'm not alone, I'm sure. So I have given up on PE4.
Anyway, my real point was that I know have to sit and wait until PE7 is available even though the Adobe website says it is, it's all about the definition of available...I guess we'll get 'Adobe announce the availability of PE36 in the programmers head', no good for me If I can't go straight out an buy it...
While Bill Hunt has a valid point, the implication that this is what causes instability and dissatisfaction with PE4 is absurd. I have a rock solid system that far exceeds the system requirements of PE4, and I have done every tweak advised on this forum and the Adobe links. It's just unstable at any speed, even on stable systems. Save often and expect 5 min load times with large HDV projects that have a lot of clips.
As Makiru said, those are good points, but completely irrelevant to this thread and PE4's stability and useability issues.
As Makiru and Roger said above, but they're not excellent points after all and it's an insult to the many who know exactly the requirements of software and their system capabilities. Basically, marketing of many of these products is very short of an outright lie. I read as many reviews of the product as I could find. There's every reason to be disappointed in not being able to do what it says it will do. I may have been deceived out of $100, but you can bet it sends a strong message about buying software. Shame on me this time, but it won't be at my expense in the future.
It is an insult to imply that PE4's problems are due to user system deficiencies. I have worked in the software industry for quite a while now, and unlike others here I use PE4 constantly. If you look at my VIMEO page, all of the videos there were done with PE4.
It's a great program feature and performance wise, giving fantastic results with a well designed workflow, that's also BUGGY AS HECK and frustrating to use. Projects take 2-3x longer than they should due to bugs associated with sound kicking out, with rendering no longer working, with titles/text causing crashes.
I use this software a lot, and while it's pretty decent for DV projects its HORRIBLE for HDV, especially when you have a lot of clips in the project. The results and design are great, the implentation was bug-ridden and remains so. This is on a ROCK SOLID stable platform that far exceeds the min spec, with all the Adobe tweaks and performance suggestions applied.
Vimeo page featuring PE4 project results -
Those are nice videos Roger. I watched a couple, and will check the others out later this evening. I just subscibed to your videos. What kind of waterproof system are you using?
As far as Adobe, I've often wondered why they don't include a utility that would check users codecs, specs, free space, and other potential issues and provide a check list for how to configure.
Thanks for the kind words. I use a Sony HDR-HC9 camcorder with an Ocean Images housing and Pro Watt Scuba lights. I just finished another one this week, of course it took about 2x as long as it should to edit due to constantly having to restart and reload the project because of PE4s flakiness, but it does get the job done better than other apps. Hopefully PE7 will be more stable and less cumbersome to use.
As stated in Premiere Elements 7 FAQ's under What's new in version 7?
The opening quote by grisetti steve is Version 7 is less an overhaul of version 4 than it is a refinement of it.
Does Adobe sincerely think its fair to charge what has been coined as being nothing more than a refinement to version 4, especially since Id bought v4 four months before the public announcement to v7? They knew it was a mess and was creating this update for it at the same time I bought it. Matter of fact, v4 is still alive and well on many retail shelves, so what will happen to those unsuspecting buyers? Regardless of whether Adobe can control that or not, its most often customary that a customer that buys a product within a very close range to a new version is granted that new version. And before this gets twisted into looking as though Im looking for something for nothing, the reality is I got nothing for something. Any rational thinking person will come to the conclusion, under these circumstances, that Adobe has no sense of fair play to those that play fair. Yes, Im quite perturbed and feel its appropriate to expect a response and for other readers to objectively come away with their own conclusion.
Needing to do something, and unable to find any avenue other than pay the upgrade price, I looked for another solution and prepared for another letdown. For the price Adobe expects me to pay to get the v7 upgrade (Im sorry, the v4 refinement) I bought Magix Movie Edit Pro 14 Plus, which has more than lived up to its claims. Very powerful and complete editing, snappy and responsive regardless of task Ive thrown at it and it has never closed once in the many times Ive used it. If Im so happy with it why am I here complaining? Because I have the self-respect to expect justification as to why Adobe doesnt provide reasonable consolation for those that have 1) recently bought a program that has been openly regarded as flawed and 2) openly said the new version is nothing more than a refinement. If Ive missed something, show me my mistep and if I'm off base Ill gladly apologize.
Good luck with Magix Movie Edit Pro 14 Plus. I have found it to be full of bugs, unpredictable and unreliable. I hop all goes well for you:
It probably would have been more accurate to say that "The Premiere Elements 7 interface is less an overhaul than a refinement of it."
The program offers a number of great new features as well as increased performance.
But, like any upgrade, it's only as valuable as those new features are to you personally. If not, stick with the version you have.
Regardless, I'm glad you've found a product that meets your needs, hi-fi. In the end, that's really all that counts.
This really isn't a competition between users ("My brand is better than your brand"). It's just about everyone finding the product that best fits their workflow.
Adding AVCHD support was a huge step forward. But useless to anyone not using AVCHD clips, of course.
>The program offers a number of great new features as well as increased performance.
And with a review of the disenchantment in this thread alone (listed by a good number of others as well as myself) this is really the whole point. It's missing in v4 and those who posted their relevent issues would like to have that considering they thought they paid for it.
>Good luck with Magix Movie Edit Pro 14 Plus. I have found it to be full of bugs, unpredictable and unreliable. I hop all goes well for you:
If that's your experience, then PE4 must be a disaster because of those two particular programs MEP (at least in its most recent version, as they do provide updates as problems are reported) has been commendably well behaved. I hop it continues to go well too, thanks :-)
>Regardless, I'm glad you've found a product that meets your needs, hi-fi. In the end, that's really all that counts.
Hard to be gracious when it took roughly $100 (twice) to find that out, but that's not your fault. Thanks, you seem to mean it.
>This really isn't a competition between users ("My brand is better than your brand"). It's just about everyone finding the product that best fits their workflow.
No, it isn't about bashing one product for another. It's all about Adobe releasing PE4, consumers buying it and reporting a multitude of problems that can be rolled-up concisely into one very large thread, but instead of addressing any of those problems, they release PE7 and "allow" those customers to upgrade for another $100. Being an unacceptable proposal, I found another solution. I'm quite confident there's others that don't feel it appropriate to pay $200 for a $100 program. Such an example of inconsideration and greed does not deserve that kind of loyalty. That goes for any company choosing to do business like that, not just Adobe. So you're absolutely right gs, it's not a competition thing. It's an excercise in illuminating a problem and hoping others benefit than be taken advantage of.
I've made my last point and post about this. Not trying to be hated here, just understood.
>Adding AVCHD support was a huge step forward. But useless to anyone not using AVCHD clips, of course.
Ozpeter, always a gentleman and diplomat. You always look for bright spot in just about anything, even if there really isn't one :-)
>If that's your experience, then PE4 must be a disaster because of those two particular programs MEP (at least in its most recent version, as they do provide updates as problems are reported) has been commendably well behaved. I hop it continues to go well too, thanks
That statement is not justified. I used MEP14 Plus, which is the modt recent version. There have been no updates available. Thee is something out there for the e-version, but most folks use the CD version.
In addition, it is a stretch to say PE4 is a disaster. It is unfair and un-jsutified to make that statement. I used MEP14 Plus and created 3 DVDs with it. I got fed up with its various bugs, unpreditability and unrelialibility. I decided to go back to PRE4 because of its reliability. PRE4 also allows me to be much more creative then MEP14. I have far fewer crashes, and it does not do un-predictable things to my timeline, which messes upp effect I worked so hard on. For my worlflow, MEP14 Plus is the disaster.
That said, MEP14 Plus does have a place for my video editing. I do like some of the themes (or whatever they call it). I will be occcasionally mmaking short slide shows using some of their themes and import them into PRE. I also think MEP14 handles MPEG2s much better than PRE. I use MEP14 for creatind DVDs from my Hauppauge PVR.
Anyhow, I am impressed with some of the new PRE7 features and I have ordered the upgrade. The revised Organizer is very nice. The movie maker theme in the Trial is very nice and I can't wait to use it. I also like the photoshop.com idea.
Yes, not all features are important to all people. I do not need AVCHD, but there are many folks who are excited about this support.
Ireally can't wait to strat using PRE7. The Trial version has convinced me. The information I got from this forum as well as muvipix.com has also helped in my decision.
This is really not the place to discuss Magix MEP 14 Plus and how it compared to PRE7.
I invite you to join muvipix.com. This forum is primarily about PRE, however, there is a Video Editor topic area where you can post topics regarding any NLE. If you have any questions about Magix MEP14 Plus, fell free to post them there. I, or others, may be able to help.
There is also a forum over at Magix which is not too bad.