26 Replies Latest reply on Sep 13, 2008 7:24 AM by the_wine_snob

    Audacity

    Bruce Chastain Level 1
      Does anyone have any Audacity running tips? When I export a WAV from PE 4 and try to open it with Audacity on my XP SP3, the program instantly crashes with an exception. MP3s open ok, but not WAVs. I've tried 1.2.6 and 1.3.5. I've seen the program recommended here a few times so I'm wondering if anyone else is having more luck with it than I am.

      I guess you get what you pay for with free software.

      Bruce.
        • 1. Re: Audacity
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
          On the contrary! Audacity is one of the best audio editors available -- and the fact that it's free is just an added bonus. There's nothing sub-standard about it.

          But, if you're having trouble using MP3s in your project, this is more likely a sign that you've got something wrong on your system -- maybe lack of hardware resources, outdated drivers, an improperly tuned system. There's certainly nothing wrong with the MP3s that Audacity produces.
          • 2. Re: Audacity
            Bruce Chastain Level 1
            I can open MP3s just fine. It's only the WAVs exported from PE that cause Audacity to instantly crash just trying to open them.

            PE 4 doesn't seem to export MP3s, so WAV is my only option.

            Bruce.
            • 3. Re: Audacity
              Robert J. Johnston Level 2
              This has come up before and some have blamed Audacity for not updating their software so it works with Adobe and some have blamed Adobe for incorrect headings in the WAV files.
              • 4. Re: Audacity
                Bruce Chastain Level 1
                Thanks for confirming it Robert. I downloaded a random WAV file from the internet and Audacity opens it just fine. Only the PE generated WAV files cause Audacity to crash.

                And so ends what I was trying to do. I was attempting to export the audio from a video clip, clean it up in Audacity, and then reimport it back to PE. That doesn't appear to be possible now, at least not with Audacity.

                Bruce.
                • 5. Re: Audacity
                  Level 1
                  Nowt wrong with audacity the cause is PE wav is a 48000 sample as opposed to 41 you could try changing the mple rate in audacity but tried that and it did.nt work but if you can downsample first youarehome and dry
                  • 6. Re: Audacity
                    Bruce Chastain Level 1
                    I tried playing with the PE export sample rate and compression type and no change. Audacity still blows up the second the WAV is opened.

                    If anyone knows of a audio editor (except Audacity or Nero) that has about the same features for a reasonable cost, and can read PE WAVs without puking, I'd sure appreciate the suggestion.

                    Bruce.
                    • 7. Re: Audacity
                      Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                      How about Cool Edito Pro?
                      http://www.oldversion.com/program.php?n=coolpro

                      Sony Sound Forge Audio Studio
                      http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/audiostudio?
                      • 8. Re: Audacity
                        Bruce Chastain Level 1
                        Thanks Steve, as best I can tell, Cool Edit Pro was sucked up by Adobe and is now Adobe Audition, which sells for a ridiculous sum of money. The latest Cool Edit 2.1, also goes for $300, far more than I'm prepared to spend for some minor audio editing.

                        As for Sony, to make a long story short, I had some horrible experiences with Sony and have sworn off their products for life.

                        Thanks anyway.

                        Bruce.
                        • 9. Re: Audacity
                          Level 1
                          Well if I export as 41 from elements to audacity there is no problem are you using audition stable or the beta I use the stable version
                          Just change the sample why mess about with compression
                          • 10. Re: Audacity
                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                            Bruce,

                            I just looked at two WAV files (one from the PE Tutorial and the other Exported from PE, which also contained the first WAV) in G-Spot. The first opened fine in Audacity 1.2.3, the latter killed it dead.

                            Here are the differences:
                            File 1 (worked in Audacity fine)
                            File Type: WAVE(WAV)
                            Mime Type: audio/wav
                            User Data/Metadata: empty
                            CODEC: PCM Audio @ 48KHz 96 kb/s total (2 chanls)

                            File 2 (killed Audacity)
                            File Type: WAVE(WAV
                            Mime Type: audio/wav
                            User Data/Metadata:
                            [ICRD]
                            [IART]
                            [INAM]
                            [IGNR]
                            [ICMT]
                            [IENG]
                            [ICOP]
                            [ISFT]
                            CODEC: PCM Audio @ 48KHz 80 kb/s total (2 chnls)

                            Other than the kb/sec difference, the big thing that I see is the Metadata. This is just a guess, but I'd suspect that these are "placeholders" for Metadata to be used in Organizer. Maybe someone can confirm. As I do not use Organizer, I have no experience with it. I also do not know what those abbreviations translate to.

                            It might be a workaround to "convert" the PE WAV files in another program, to "strip" the Metadata placeholders. I'd try something like QT Pro to see if you could load and save with all other specs intact. For me, I'd do a batch process with a program like Digital Media Converter, and just set the output to PCM/WAV 48KHz 16-bit, saving to another folder.

                            Good luck,

                            Hunt

                            [EDIT] Just ran my "killer" file through Digital Media Converter and it did, as per above. Opened Audacity, loaded the file... and guess what? I opened perfectly! G-Spot shows NO METADATA - clean as the other test file. I'd wager that that is where the problem is. For what it is worth, the "killer" WAV opened fine in Audition. Probably an incompatibility with Audacity.
                            • 11. Re: Audacity
                              Bruce Chastain Level 1
                              Jon, I don't know what you mean by 41. I don't see a 41 setting anywhere.

                              Hunt, thank you so much for your investigation. As usual I'm having to learn more about audio/video files in order to try and resolve these.

                              You may be right about the meta data. However, it doesn't seem quite as simple as that. As with you, here's a "killer" file: Note that when I saved this WAV, I set "Embedding Options" to "None". I don't know what the option means, but I thought that might minimize the META data. But I got these anyway.

                              [ICRD]
                              [IART]
                              [INAM]
                              [IGNR]
                              [ICMT]
                              [IENG]
                              [ICOP]
                              [ISFT]

                              Next I checked my one of my test files that works perfectly with Audacity, and got these:

                              [IART] Mitch Rouse & Masi Oka
                              [ICOP] "Get Smart's Bruce and Lloyd Out of Control" (2008)
                              [ICMT] Snagged from The Daily .WAV -- www.dailywav.com
                              [INAM] nanorobots.wav

                              That file works fine with Audacity despite the presence of meta data. So this must be more complicated that just the presence or absence of META data.

                              Thanks very much for the reference to Digital Media Converter "repairing" the files. I'm not sure I want to fix this bad enough to spend $40 for yet another program I need just to use PE, but I'll look around to see if I can find something along those lines.

                              Thanks.
                              Bruce.
                              • 12. Re: Audacity
                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                Thanks for the report. Obviously, Audacity can handle some Metadata. There must be one in the "killer" file list that throws Audacity for a loop.

                                You might want to look around for some freeware file conversion programs that will strip the Metadata.

                                Another thought would be to Export your WAV, as normal, but check Add to Project. Then look at it in Organizer and add Metadata to just the parameters that you list - nothing else. Place it at the end of your Timeline, move the WAB (Work Area Bar) over just it, and Export once more. Might remove the blank fields?

                                Good luck and thanks for following this. Audacity is a good little program, even though I don't use it all that much. Things should work, and maybe you're really close.

                                Hunt
                                • 13. Re: Audacity
                                  Bruce Chastain Level 1
                                  Hunt, it looks like it's not the META data, at least obviously so. I did as you suggested, exporting and adding to the Organizer. I then put that on a track and using the work bar, exported it yet again to another WAV. NOW Audacity opens the second WAV just fine! The extra step fixed something, but I know not what, because if I look at the new file with GSpot, it shows all the same META data! Visually I don't see any difference, but it sure makes a difference with Audacity.

                                  While I was thinking about this I did some more exploring in VirtualDub (a program I am slowly becoming competent at), and it has a feature to export an AVI audio track to a WAV. So I tried that on one of my original camera AVIs and bingo, it creates a WAV that Audacity handles perfectly. I can then clean up the audio with Audacity. Even better, VirtualDup lets me also recombine the original video and the cleaned up WAV file. Pretty cool.

                                  But I'd have to do that on a video clip by clip basis, not the whole PE project at once, but at least it's another option.

                                  Thanks for the help.

                                  Bruce.
                                  • 14. Re: Audacity
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                    Bruce,

                                    You're saying that the second version has the same empty Metadata files, as the first, bad one, but it works? OK, blows my theory.

                                    Since I use Pro and Audition, and work with elemental streams most of the time, I'm not up on Audacity and out of ideas. I wish that Audacity threw some error message to point us in the right direction, but it just crumps and the Windows report does not give any indication of what is going on.

                                    Maybe I can hunt around Event Viewer and find something of use, but I doubt it.

                                    At least you're on you way with freeware, so that is what is important. Thanks for your research.

                                    Hunt
                                    • 15. Re: Audacity
                                      Level 1
                                      Bruce sorry meant 44100 it then opens in audacity without any other faffing around.Just export >audio>then 44100 from the drop down box.
                                      • 16. Re: Audacity
                                        PeterFDuke Level 1
                                        >How about Cool Edito Pro?
                                        http://www.oldversion.com/program.php?n=coolpro

                                        Just for the record, only the last named is the Pro version which is multi-track. The one listed as Cool Edit Pro 2000, for instance, is actually Cool Edit 2000 v 1.1.

                                        The restrictions on the unregistered non-pro versions are good. You can only have two functions active at a time, but otherwise works normally. You have a choice on which two functions are active.

                                        Cool Edit prior to the 2000 version (cooledit96) had intermittent resave errors in 32 bit versions of Windows (Win NT and later, including XP). (You had to delete the old file first or save to a new file name). Syntrillium told me they didn't know why, but that it was fixed in the 2000 version.

                                        Cool Edit 2000 is still my audio editor of choice. The audio restoration program iZotope Rx is the best I have tried and it uses an interface based on Cool Edit 2000.

                                        Edit

                                        I was wrong. Only the 2000 version is labelled incorrectly.
                                        • 17. Re: Audacity
                                          Bruce Chastain Level 1
                                          Jon, 44100 made no difference. Audacity still pukes on the file.

                                          Bill, yes, the act of exporting, importing, and then exporting again somenow made the WAV file readable to Audacity despite still having all the same META data. So now I don't think the problem is related to Meta data at all. I've now seen 2 files with lots of Meta data that are both read fine by Audacity.

                                          Yeah, I'll look for some freeware, something that can copy a WAV to WAV, reformatting as it goes. In the meantimes, I do now have the option of using VirtualDub to export the clip audio to WAV that Audacity handles fine.

                                          Bruce.
                                          • 18. Re: Audacity
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                            Bruce,

                                            The one difference that I saw with my test files was that in the direct Export from PE, the Metadata list was empty. When I did the conversion, the headers were all cleaned out. When you did your test file, some of the Metadata headers were there, but had values. The empty ones were gone. Is this correct, or did I misremember something? Still a curiosity to me. Since we can easily only look at certain aspects of the files, many things could be going on under the hood, and we don't have ready access to those.

                                            At least you have a workaround for now.

                                            I'll also run some tests with WAV files from Audition and PP, just to see if they cause any problems. As I use Audacity infrequently, I really had not experienced this problem. I did verify it, just as you said, however.

                                            If I run across anything of use, I'll post it.

                                            Hunt
                                            • 19. Re: Audacity
                                              Level 1
                                              Bruce thats strange still you could try Super that will convert just about anything
                                              http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html
                                              • 20. Re: Audacity
                                                Bruce Chastain Level 1
                                                Bill, the metadata that had values were from a randomly downloaded WAV file from the internet. I did not attempt to process that file further, other than to verify it opened fine in Audacity, despite having metadata.

                                                Instead, I used one of my camera AVIs as the source for the WAV export, import, and then re-export. While the first WAV would crash Audacity, the second export would not. Here is the metadata from the second export:

                                                [ICRD]
                                                [IART]
                                                [INAM]
                                                [IGNR]
                                                [ICMT]
                                                [IENG]
                                                [ICOP]
                                                [ISFT]

                                                That looks identical to the first WAV export, so the re-import/re-export doesn't seem to have changed the metadata at all.

                                                BTW, the "damaged" WAV files play just fine in Windows Media Player and Windows Movie Maker. Only Audacity crashes upon opening.

                                                I've posted a sample file on the Audacity forum to see if anyone there has any comments.

                                                Bruce.
                                                • 21. Re: Audacity
                                                  Bruce Chastain Level 1
                                                  Jon, thanks for the link to Super. It seems to cover everything, including the kitchen sink. :-)

                                                  I did try "converting" a crashing PE generated WAV file, from WAV to WAV, and the resulting new WAV file does not crash Audacity.

                                                  The only file I've found that crashes Audacity is the one created by PE.

                                                  The conversion also strips the file of all metadata, though I have no idea if that's important or not.

                                                  Bruce.
                                                  • 22. Re: Audacity
                                                    Level 1
                                                    Bruce I dont know about metadata I use adobe audition I just know that always tells me the WAV from Pe needs to be downsampled as PE uses 48 by default
                                                    • 23. Re: Audacity
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                      Jon,

                                                      I use Audition also, though have not done much with PE WAV files. When I am creating musical compositions, I always Export from the other programs as 48KHz 16-bit PCM and Audition has never balked. I do this because my end use will be DVD, so I'd just as soon keep the files in their final form.

                                                      I'll have to do an Export from PE and Import to Audition. Since I use PE so very little, I may just not have noticed a problem, but 48KHz files from many other sources work fine in Audition 2 & 3.

                                                      Let me go check...

                                                      [EDIT] Exported from PE and Imported into Audition. Everything fine. Checked File Info and it was 48KHz 16-bit, just as I had intended to Export/Import. Not sure why your copy of Audition wants to downsample PE Audio files. None of my versions do. The conform and generate a PEK file, and all is there and well. Odd?

                                                      Hunt
                                                      • 24. Re: Audacity
                                                        Level 1
                                                        Bruce no It does'nt want to downsample for editng individual files just if you happen to be in multi edit and go to use a 44 and a 48 or 98 it will tell you to down sample the 48/98.I use 98 for editing sometimes .Thats what drew my attention toit in the past.It never baulks just informs you you to make a copy then gives you the samplerate box to ok. Going to cd with odd size sample files files it down samples itself
                                                        • 25. Re: Audacity
                                                          Ozpeter Level 1
                                                          I have no idea about how these might work with the files you have, but apart from Adobe Audition I use these -

                                                          Wavosaur - www.wavosaur.com - freeware stereo editor. Very light on its feet but it can use VST effects to add to its inbuilt functions.

                                                          As with any destructive stereo editor, use it on a copy of your file, or be very sure to use "save as" and give a new filename, rather than over-writing your original.

                                                          Not freeware but remarkable value for money, and a tiny non-invasive install - Reaper, www.reaper.fm - multitrack 'digital audio workstation' - which can be used as a stereo editor because it has an optional 'ripple edit' mode (so if you delete something from the middle of a file, everything to the right moves left to fill the hole). It also has a video window and can open some video files so you can work on the associated audio. But it can't save the revised audio back to the video, you'd have to use Elements for that part.
                                                          • 26. Re: Audacity
                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                            Ozpeter,

                                                            Thanks for the suggestions for other Audio-editing tools.

                                                            Over the years, your many posts to the Audition forums have been very helpful to me. As I only use it for my Video production, there is always a lot, that I do not understand. Your articles and replies have helped me to use it better for my purposes, and have given me an education in general Audio, at the same time.

                                                            Hunt