21 Replies Latest reply on Sep 25, 2008 7:34 AM by (Randy_Bowser)

    .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista

      I have vid projects made in Premiere Elements 2. I've upgraded my computer, and of course was forced to now use Vista. I discovered Elements 2 didn't work on the machine - looked like it was working, but was unable to save.

      Fine, so I've upgraded to Elements 4. But I still have the same problem - The projects which worked perfectly well in Elements 2 do not work in Elements 4 on Vista. The vid files for the projects are .mov files. Just now I saw an error when trying to use a downloaded vid converter--it said no Quick Time codec was found. That was never an issue on my old computer--Vista doesn't come with .mov codecs?

      I've looked and looked, am confused, am very frustrated I can't finish my work on these projects. I MUST be able to open these again and continue work in Elements 4 on my new Vista machine.

      Desperate for solutions. Thank you.
      Randy B.
        • 1. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
          Best solution is to convert those MOV files to DV-AVIs before you import them into a Premiere Elements project.

          MOV files can be any of dozens of codecs, and many can very challenging for this program.

          YOu can do the conversion with Quicktime Pro from Apple or the free conversion software Super.
          http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html
          • 2. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
            Level 1
            Thanks for the reply, Steve

            Earlier today I saw that same advice posted at Adobe before I joined this Forum and posted.

            What makes no sense to me is that these .mov files worked perfectly well on my XP machine with Premiere 2. Now that I've had to upgrade both the computer and the program--it's a step backwards? Those .mov files were of pristine, beautiful quality. I don't want to degrade them with a conversion unless I'm forced to, and I'll never be very pleased about it.

            But I tried the SUPER link since it was posted. I looked and looked through all the long pages there and couldn't find a workable link. Lots of info about what the program does, but each Download link only took me to more pages of info, plus ads from Google for similar programs. Never could find "Super." Had to give up.

            I almost upgraded my Quicktime to Pro - but was faced with a huge and very negative list of user responses. People who can't make it work on Vista, and people who said it's very limited in what file types it can convert to--all of the portable toy variety rather than substantial formats like Avi or Mpeg 2.

            I'm talking about a 2 hour video project with hundreds of edits. I can convert the original master .mov files to Avi and it won't mess up my complicated edits which took me months to develop? I won't have to re-direct each tiny clip to new files?

            Randy B.
            • 3. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
              Level 1
              Randy,

              Did you install Quicktime on your Vista system? You need to install the
              current version of Quicktime to get the codecs. And, yes, the current
              version is compatible with Vista. I have Vista Home Premium with Quicktime
              installed and have no problems editing mov files in Premiere Elements.
              • 4. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                Level 1
                Forgot to supply the download link: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/
                • 5. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                  Level 1
                  That's so good of you, Robert--Thank you for the responses.

                  But I knew I had to install Quicktime on the computer. I thought that's all I'd have to do. I'd already gone through that on my previous machine.

                  That's why I said I considered upgrading to Quicktime Pro, in case it had a different codec that I needed, but all the horrible user reports on Pro have discouraged me from trying that. But I put Quicktime on the Vista machine the same day I brought it home.

                  It's very odd. The Quicktime player on the Vista machine can't play these .mov either. BUT the Windows Media Player does play them!

                  I tried a vid format converter, but it didn't work, saying there wasn't a Quicktime codec on the computer--while Quicktime is sitting right there. And obviously the right codec has to be Somewhere, or the Media Player wouldn't be playing these.

                  Can I find its codec somewhere on the computer and move it to where Premiere can use it?

                  I've searched all over for more codecs, but it's so confusing--and I certainly don't know why I should be having to add more. Especially not when these files worked instantly on my old XP machine with Premiere Elements 2.

                  It has to be an issue with the computer and/or Vista. It seems strange Adobe has that disclaimer which Steve quoted, saying that Elements 4 can have a tough time with .mov files, when right in the program .mov files are listed as compatible formats to import. That's why I don't think it's a Premiere issue, and your post confirms that.

                  Awful to be at a stand still after all this work. I'd try to continue on my old machine with this big vid project, but it didn't have the horsepower to allow me to do any more editing.

                  Randy B.
                  • 6. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                    Level 1
                    Adding this - Apparently there are a large number of different flavors of .mov files, and so a lot of different codecs. I think these .mov files must be of a more unusual kind, because when I first started working with them, I discovered that in a folder of approximately 20 files, there were actually only 4 master files which worked. The rest had numbers, like 1 through 5.

                    They came straight from the camerman's camera for this project. All of the files are the same size, large, but the numbered ones aren't able to be played - just the master file which has a shorter name. I tried deleting the non-playing other files, but that made the master files inoperable. What is all that? This camera, whatever it was, apparently generates some unusual kind of files which are difficult to work with.

                    But, as I said, I had no problem before, once I figured out which files actually played--they worked fine on XP with no special attention given to them, and I could edit them in Elements 2.

                    I should probably track down that photographer, find out what the camera was, and go from there, finding out from the manufacturer what kind of special .mov files these are.

                    I know the Quicktime works on the new Vista computer. I grabbed a public domain .mov file at random from the web, and it played fine the player.

                    Randy B.
                    • 7. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                      Level 1
                      "I discovered that in a folder of approximately 20 files, there were
                      actually only 4 master files which worked. The rest had numbers, like 1
                      through 5...They came straight from the camerman's camera for this project.
                      All of the files are the same size, large, but the numbered ones aren't able
                      to be played - just the master file which has a shorter name. I tried
                      deleting the non-playing other files, but that made the master files
                      inoperable. What is all that? "

                      Quicktime has the capability to encode a movie in segments with some
                      segments encoded separately from the rest. Those 4 master files are the
                      main movie files and the numbered files are external segments of those
                      movies. You need all the segments to play the movie.

                      "The Quicktime player on the Vista machine can't play these .mov either. BUT
                      the Windows Media Player does play them!"

                      That is odd.

                      Quicktime mov is a container format. That is, it defines how the movie is
                      stored in the file, but doesn't define how the movie is encoded. The codec
                      determines the encoding. You might want to download GSPOT and see what it
                      says the codec is. http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

                      "Can I find its codec somewhere on the computer and move it to where
                      Premiere can use it?"

                      If the codec is installed on the computer, Premiere can find it. There are
                      two major classes of codecs on Windows. VFW, which is the older type, and
                      DirectShow, which is the newer. Microsoft wants to phase out VFW. I don't
                      remember off the top of my head whether Premiere Elements supports both or
                      not.

                      "I tried the SUPER link since it was posted. I looked and looked through all
                      the long pages there and couldn't find a workable link."

                      The download link for the setup file is at the very bottom of this page:
                      http://www.erightsoft.com/S6Kg1.html which links to
                      http://www.erightsoft.info/GetFile.php?SUPERsetup.exe And, yes, it's very
                      annoying to click through all those pages to find the actual download link.
                      No excuse for that, IMO.

                      I have never used Super, so I can't say anything about it.
                      • 8. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                        Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                        As for not wanting to convert the file because you're afraid it will degrade the quality -- remember that Premiere Elements uses a DV-AVI workflow, so that MOV is going to get converted anyway by the program, even if you ultimately output an MOV from it. And the program won't do nearly as good a job converting the file as you can with Super or, especially, Quicktime Pro (an excellent program, no matter what you've read).

                        If you want to keep the MOV in its original format, edit it and create a high-quality MOV from it, then (short of buying a Mac) your best solution is definitely Quicktime Pro. Not only is a program a great converter, but it also natively edits Quicktime files.
                        • 9. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                          Randy,

                          One thing that QuickTime (QT) allows one to do is use "reference" files. Basically, one will have a MOV file, with is only a proxy and requires the actual files (from which it was created) to be available. This is *probably* what you have with the MOV and the "numbered files." The MOV is the reference, or proxy, and the numbered files are what it references. I'll often see a folder with 1 MOV (small in comparison) and then dozens of larger MP4 (or other MOV) files, that the proxy MOV file references and needs to play. Without them, it has nothing to reference.

                          Point two: on a Mac, QT has a "professional" CODEC (forget the exact name of it now), which is often used by Final Cut Pro (FCP, Apple only). This CODEC is not available on PC. When a file has gone through FCP, it needs to be Exported to a format that is cross-platform. A lot of FCP users do not realize this and just do as they normally will - Export to the default. Unfortunately, PC users cannot use these files, because the CODEC is not even available for the PC.

                          I'd ask that the files be re-Exported to DV-AVI and your problems will very likely go away. If this cannot be done, then ask that they be Exported to "self-contained" MOV files, hi-rez, but with a universal CODEC, not something like H.264, which is very popular but the file will be highly compressed, to start.

                          As for the MOV files playing in WMP, something is wrong there, very wrong. WMP does not play MOV files. Now, some other players, like VLC Player, and Media Player Classic, might be able to play some, but not all. What version of QT do you have? I just upgraded to 7.5.5 (249.13), which was the latest as of last week. I do have the QT Pro version (on all machines), but I noticed that 7.5.5 included a few CODECs that my older version (about 7.3) did not. These were automatically installed on the system (more on that later). The problem versions seem to have been around 7.4.1. They gave all Adobe programs fits, not just PE. It *seems* that Apple has fixed, whatever was broken. Main things that the QT Pro version allows is rudimentary editing (basically file joining, with just a very little more), and Export to various formats and various CODECs. Regular QT is just a player with a bunch of advertising hung on it. Unfortunately, the Pro version does not dispense with that advertising [sigh].

                          Now to CODECs. These are little appelets (often .dll's) that need to be installed on the system and registered. Once done, they are available to all programs, that use CODECs. You don't need to move anything. However, some CODECs will establish a "priority" for their use. While they do not overwrite other CODECs, they will set their priority higher, and this can fritz with some programs, which expect b THEIR
                          CODECs to have priority for certain formats. This can get tricky to go in and re-set these priority flags. There are some utilities, that can do it, or one can hack the Registry - not a good thing, unless one knows exactly what they doing and have a backup of the Registry.

                          This is one reason for only installing CODECs that are needed, as some can mess up existing CODECs. CODEC "packs" are notorious for ruining good ones. Also most of the CODECs contained in the packs are hacked, or reverse-engineered versions of real CODECs and are often poorly implemented. Some CODEC packs even contain malware.

                          Now back to the Reference (Proxy) MOV files. These are often used in NLE's, that support them, as a way to edit by proxy, so that the changes can be made to the full version, when done. This method requires few resources, because the files being edited are just placeholders for the real data. Adobe NLE's do not allow Proxy file editing.

                          In your case, I think you need to go back to the camera person and ask for the footage to be Exported to something that all NLE's, and all platforms, can use, like DV-AVI with 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV Audio. That will solve your problems with these files. Next would be to get the latest QT, and upgrade it to Pro (~US$40). Unless the QuickTime Professional (not inculded, or available for any PC) CODEC was used, you should be able to handle/Export them. If that one CODEC was used, you're hosed. Only a Mac with that CODEC can work with the files. You might find a post-production facility locally, that has it, and can make the conversion for you to DV-AVI. DV-AVI is
                          i "virtually"
                          lossless. It certainly beats having files that cannot be edited on a PC.

                          Good luck,

                          Hunt

                          [Edited to add] If you old system worked with these files in PE2 perfectly, but your new system (Vista) with PE4 does not, it probably rules out the QT Professional CODEC (wish I could recall the name). What it does mean is that your old system had the proper CODECs installed, and your new system does not - very common occurance. Try the newest QT version 7.5.5, or greater, and see if it installs the proper CODECs. Next make sure that you do
                          b NOT
                          delete any files from the folders with the reference files. It is but a shell, a little database, a proxy and does not contain any Audio, or Video, data. It absolutely needs the rest. If you upgrade to QT Pro, you can launch your reference file in QT Player, and Pause it. Then Export, and at the least choose a Self-Contained MOV file,
                          b NOT
                          a reference file.
                          • 10. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                            Level 1
                            You guys are great - Robert, Steve and Bill, your replies are really appreciated. I've been involved on musician bulletin boards, helping people out the way you guys are doing here, so I'm always glad to see folks like you helping out in their areas of expertise.

                            Replies:

                            --The link posted for the "Super" download still didn't take me to their actual download. That page opened up to Google ads for a Super Mario download, and another for Tips and Tools for Windows. ----no go.

                            --I downloaded the Gspot codec analyzer and ran it. Results say "codec status undetermined." And in the lower boxes for rendering it said, "Gspot is not yet capable of attempting to render this video type" and "rendering failed-Direct Show says 0x80004005: (unknown." So, no help there.

                            Bill, your patient explanation of some details was enlightening, thanks. And I'm glad you came back with an edit, because I could see you had missed it that these particular .mov files had worked perfectly on my previous XP machine.

                            It also remains that the Windows Media Player on my Vista machine also plays these files with no problem, when I open one of the master files.

                            I'm going to take the advice on QuickTime Pro - I think the negative reviews I read were from impatient iPod users who just didn't get it. I can see the grayed out menu items that will be activated when I upgrade - I can't see where I'll be able to get the results I need, but I'll just need to try it. As you said, Bill, the hope is that the codec for these kind of .mov files will be included.

                            MAJOR CONCERN HOWEVER - I've already done months of editing on this project. My timeline in Elements is full of hundreds, who knows, maybe thousands of edits. Scores of sometimes tiny clips of one second in duration - With newly converted video files for the clips to point to, won't I need to go through and re-direct every single clip to the new source? - That would be an incredibly involved process to say the least. Or will they automatically point to newly imported master vid files?

                            In any case, going back to the cameraman and asking for the files to be exported as DV-AVI - That would be completely starting over, and after 4 months of editing, just isn't an option.

                            I have the latest version of QuickTime, by the way. Thinking I may have a funky install of QT, yesterday I un-installed and re-installed a brand new download from Apple, the most current version at their site.

                            Final note, answering you again, Bill - I've kept this massive folder of files intact. Your description of how the "master" files are only referencing the actual, numbered, vid files is exactly what I discovered as I started to work with these. I experimented once to see if I could thin the folder out--and of course that didn't work. This multi-gig folder has to remain as it is.

                            I'll go get QT pro - But am very concerned that even if I get the unedited files to play properly on the laptop, that my Elements project file won't work, what with this extremely detailed editing I've done. - ? -

                            THANKS AGAIN. You guys are doing a Super job.

                            Randy B.
                            • 11. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                              the_wine_snob Level 9
                              Randy,

                              Yes, I had not read your initial post today and did not retain that info from yesterday, or before. I did re-read, and thus the Edit. Sorry about that.

                              One great thing about Premiere (Pro and Elements) is that they will go out and find your Assets. Now one big caveat. The .PREL and .PROPRJ Project files are basically XML databases. They are filled with Links. To keep from having to manually Link all of your Assets, you will want the folder structure to be exactly as it was, when you were working on this Project. The HDD can be different and the upper hierarchy of the folders can be different, but the sub-folders need to be exactly the same. If that is the case (and ONLY if that is the case), the PE will ask for the first linked file, that it cannot find. You will have to navigate to that folder, containing that file and choose Open (or dbl-click). If all other sub-folders are exact, PE *should* just go down its list and find all, or most, of the linked files. Depending on how you have structured your folder, it should be easy, say: Video (all Video in here), Audio (all Audio in here), Still (all stills in here), etc. You may have to point PE to the first encountered file in each group, but it *should* find all of the rest.

                              I am puzzled that G-Spot cannot handle these MOV files, but WMP can play them. That does not make sense to me in any respect, but maybe I am about to learn something new!

                              I see what you mean about not going back to the original camera footage. Too late for that now.

                              If you'd like to ZIP one of your MOV files (including the reference and primary files) and e-mail it to me. I'll be glad to look at it and see how it performs with QT Pro and Premiere (Elements 4 and PP2). You can click my Profile in the Adobe forum and get my e-mail address. Please choose one of the smaller groups of files, though I have pretty high capacity. Also, in the e-mail Subject, put Premiere Elements 4. Now, I have XP-Pro, but a lot of CODECs. This will not be a full test, as you are on Vista, but might help us find out what is happening.

                              Based on your description of where you are in your Project, I not retract my suggestions for conversion of file formats. The challange will be to get THESE Assets to work in PE4 on Vista.

                              Maybe some of the Vista users will have ideas, that I flat missed, being an old guy on XP-Pro. Right now, I'm stumped, but would be glad to explore one of these MOV files for you. Who knows what will pop up.

                              Good luck,

                              Hunt
                              • 12. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                Level 1
                                Hello again, Bill

                                That's a very generous offer, to analyze what I have here via email. I don't think it's practical though, because the master files are 1 and 1/2 hours long each. Mega gig size. Highest resolution possible, without interlacing. Beautiful in their original form.

                                Meanwhile--I bit the bullet and upgraded to QuickTime Pro. I'm very unhappy to report that exactly Zero happened as a result. $30 later and I can't see anything in the player which will help me. It's the current 7.5 version, and the upgrade definitely took - all controls are now available.

                                But the results are exactly the same--QT seems to open a master file, but no video plays. The progress bar moves as if it has Something, but there's no display.

                                I went ahead and tried to export anyway - The same error message came up that I get in Premiere "File "'" cannot be found. Without this file, the movie cannot be played properly."

                                I see no controls for converting file type except the export button--That's it I guess?

                                In Premiere, exactly the same behavior. I'll have the master folder open, and the program keeps saying it can't find the files.

                                Very sorry I paid money I couldn't afford on this. I was convinced last night there was nothing there that would help--and, here we are.

                                I need to find the magical codec which was mysteriously already there in my old XP machine. If I could get these massive files to you, I am sure, based on my own experience, that they would work for you.

                                I'll try to clear out room on my old XP machine, upgrade the QT on it, and try to convert files there, then bring them over to the Vista machine via USB drives.

                                What you're saying is encouraging though--That if I keep the structure of the Premiere project the same on Vista, after pointing the program to where the new converted files are, then my edits should play properly with the new files--I think that's what you're saying.

                                --OH man. ANother day of Video Hell. arrrrrrgh.

                                Thanks again. Truly appreciated.

                                Randy B.
                                • 13. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                  Randy,

                                  Before you do anything with your PE2 and your PE4 .PREL files, make plenty of backups. The reason that I say to do so is that most Project files are not backwardly compatible to previous versions, i.e. if one Opens a PE2 file in PE4 and Saves it, it is not likely to ever Open in PE2. Always work from your copies, never the original .PREL files.*

                                  I always try to finish all Projects in the version and on the OS, that they were started. Seems to just work better that way. If I need to finish in another version, I'll Export from earlier version as DV-AVI to then finish. This does mean that one no longer has the Clips separate, but if you have not applied Transitions, you can use the Razor to restore the Clips. With Transitions, a lot more cutting is required, and you may have to give up footage, that you wanted. Given a state, where I had Transitions, and saw the need to move the Project, I'd remove all Transitions, before doing the Export.

                                  At this point, all I can offer is a lot of "good luck."

                                  If you do find the missing part/CODEC, please post it, as it might help someone else in the future.

                                  Pesonally, I stay away from MOV files of all flavors, if at all possible. I use QT for Export almost exclusively. I always seem to find little problems with the Apple formats, except as delivery formats.

                                  Hunt

                                  * By accident, I Imported an Encore CS3 Project into my Encore CS2 (testing for a user with problems) and it worked about 99%. May have worked 100%, but I only had his .NCOR file, and not his full Project folder structure. This surprised the heck out of me. If I had really thought about it before doing it, I possibly would not even have tried, because PP-CS3 to PP-CS2 doesn't work. Now, I have Imported P6.5 (Mac) Projects into PPCS2 (PC) with no problems. It's going the other way that causes grief. Now I have found a certain backward compatibility with Encore Projects, at least CS3 back to CS2.
                                  • 14. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                                    Like Hunt, I'm concerned that even Quicktime Pro isn't working for you. That program should handle any MOV file in existence! So I'm stumped too.

                                    Meantime, I'd like to suggest a great codec tune-up tool. The K-Lite Codec Pack installs all the major codecs on your system and fixes any that are damaged. It may or may not solve this particular issue, but it's a great way to tune up things, video-wise. And it's free!
                                    http://www.download.com/K-Lite-Mega-Codec-Pack/3000-13632_4-10794603.html

                                    Meantime, I'd just recommend making sure your Vista SP1 is up to date (Go to the Windows Update site; don't trust automatic updates to catch all the updates) and keep watching for the latest RealTek, Quicktime and firmware updates. Hopefully, we can snag what's going wrong on your system.
                                    http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c057647
                                    • 15. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                      Level 1
                                      "The link posted for the "Super" download still didn't take me to their
                                      actual download. That page opened up to Google ads for a Super Mario
                                      download, and another for Tips and Tools for Windows. ----no go."

                                      You're right. Last night the link worked, today it didn't and I got the
                                      same thing you did. Going from the main page and following page by page
                                      through the links to that same location worked and I could get the installer
                                      again. Looking at the instructions again, I notice it says you can't block
                                      the http referrer, that means you have to get to that page from another page
                                      on the same site. You can't go directly to it. If your firewall is blocking
                                      the referrer info, you won't be able to get to it either.

                                      "I downloaded the Gspot codec analyzer and ran it. Results say "codec status
                                      undetermined." And in the lower boxes for rendering it said, "Gspot is not
                                      yet capable of attempting to render this video type" and "rendering
                                      failed-Direct Show says 0x80004005: (unknown." So, no help there."

                                      That's normal for mov. Gspot has the capability to show the decoder chain
                                      and render the video, but, it doesn't support that function for mov files.
                                      Right above the message in the upper right about status undetermined, it
                                      should tell you what codec was used. For example, I just looked at a mov
                                      file I had and it said codec jpeg and name Apple Photo JPEG. Also, on the
                                      left side, you will get container info which will confirm that it is
                                      quicktime and give you the frame size. If you go to the system menu in
                                      Gspot, there is a menu item to list all the codecs and filters installed on
                                      your system. It will also highlight codecs that it identifies as having a
                                      problem.
                                      • 16. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                        Level 1
                                        Gotta say it again--You guys are just the greatest.

                                        I'm sorry to report that nothing has changed. I've tried so many things, some crazy lame ideas of my own, and also everything posted here.

                                        I grabbed the K-lite bundle - I have no idea what I'm doing with it. Nothing happened automatically. Windows of choices and too scary to make choices since I don't understand what 95% of the things are in the lists. The program's installed--and I don't understand what to do with it.

                                        The Gspot analyzer only says that the codec involved is Unknown. The possibilities you listed, Robert, aren't appearing on my screen. It just seems to look at my file and come up with a big question mark.

                                        Meanwhile, I am indeed keeping copies straight and working from prel copies, to keep what works on my old Dell still intact. Thanks for that warning, Bill.

                                        But the upshot as it is now is that it's all a bust. I did a big song and dance, justifying to my wife why I HAD to have a new computer and HAD to upgrade Premiere. And it's been a lot of money way over my budget with everything dead in the water - non-functioning. I cant keep throwing more time and money at it.

                                        I would finish the project on the Dell where I started it, but I maxed out that computer's capability. I upgraded the RAM as far as it can go on that machine. But I'm unable to do the final edits I need, since I can't get video to play back smoothly enough to see what I'm doing. It comes out as a series of stills, since the computer's power is maxed.

                                        The biggest issue is that the sound track was produced separately, and tons of editing has been needed to keep the picture synched with the audio. The majority of the time, I have the synch spot on. But there's a long list of moments where it's out, but I can't correct those moments when I can't get a smooth play back. Hence, the reason I bought a modern more power-packed computer. Never occured to me that an upgrade would result in a down-grade as far as available formats is concerned.

                                        It's just nuts to me that this lowly off-the-shelf Dell never had any issues with this kind of .mov files. And after all this experimenting yesterday and today, I'm convinced it's a Vista issue and not with Premiere or QuickTime. The essential and specific codecs are just missing, apparently, and nothing I've brought in has the codecs included, apparently. YEah--QuickTime unable to play its own format!

                                        I'm trying out a file converter, changing these files into AVI. I don't have much faith it'll help me, because if the image is degraded, I won't be able to use it. And after setting up a new project with the same folder set up, if my thousands of clips don't find these new master files, that's the end of that.

                                        And so forth. I just had to cry in public a little. lol.

                                        THANKS for all the attempts to help. Tis a mystery, and a very big blow to me and this project at this point. It's looking like one big huge chunk of my year's work down the tubes.

                                        I have no other clues what to try, and I feel I've exhausted the ideas here on the Forum--So, thanks again for trying.

                                        Randy B.
                                        • 17. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                          Level 1
                                          Quick footnote:

                                          --The file converter didn't work either. Only produced a scrambled file that can't be opened.

                                          My Vista machine is only days old. I guess I'll still try the advice of making sure it has upgrades. I'm keeping it totally offline, making it harder to shuffle things back and forth - but I'll try that--with little hope of magically finding what seems to be missing.

                                          --Maybe I should try making the QuickTime player on the Dell "Pro" also, so I could theoretically convert these files on That machine, since it's able to read these .mov files. -Worry there is that by upgrading that QT, it'll lose its ability to read these!

                                          RB
                                          • 18. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                            Randy,

                                            Just so that I can be sure I have not missed something, let me ask a question, or two. Right now, you have PE2 on your older Dell. You have now reopened your Project (using the PE2 .PREL). The only problem on the Dell is that your playback is horrible. You are mostly done with the edits, but need to do some work with final sync to your music. Am I right so far?

                                            If I am, and I were you, I would Export>Movie from PE2 as DV-AVI (Video ONLY, no Audio) and then do it again, with Audio ONLY (no video) as a PCM/WAV 48KHz 16-bit Audio file. Youll now have two files, that you will Import into PE3. At this point, I think Id start a new Project. Use Get Media for these two Assets, and drag them to the Timeline.

                                            Now, with the Export of the Video, you will have combined your individual Clips, but the Razor can handle making the separations, where needed. Be big downside is that you have also lost your Handles on those Clips. With some little tricks, you might be able to fool the audience into *thinking* that things are flowing along, when they are not. A lot will depend on what sort of motion is in these Clips. You could dupe the last frame of the Clip, that needs to be extended,* and obviously move the In, or Out Point of one that needed to be shortened. Not perfect, but depending on how much re-syncing you need to do, might just get you by. Before the Export of the Video, Id remove any Transitions, so you have Clip to Clip. Yes, this can be a lot of work, as will adding them, when youre done. Without Handles, you may have to change your artistic decision on Transitions a bit. In general, I use only three: straight cut (not really a Transition), Dip-to-Black and Cross-Dissolve. Ninety-nine percent of the rest have never been out of the box.

                                            Now to your Dell. The lag in playback is most likely an I/O issue. You have maxed out your RAM, so youve hit the wall there. What sort of HDD setup does the Dell have? What size, how many (physical, and not partitions), what speed and how much free space on each? How large and where is the Page File located? The more that you can tell us about your Dells I/O system, the more we can suggest to cure this fault. If we can get it up and performing better, maybe you CAN finish in PE2. You can always show your wife all of the neat features in the Vista Aero interface - like a dog and pony show. BTW, shell likely not know on which machine you finished your Project, unless you tell her.

                                            Yes, its frustrating as hell, but dont give up yet. Youve put too much time into this to let it go.

                                            Hunt

                                            * Ive cut out up to four frames and just duplicated 2 from Clip A (tail) and 2 from Clip B (head) and I have to know where to look to tell. Ive never had a client pick up on it.
                                            • 19. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                              Level 1
                                              hehe, Bill, you're as bad as me, tenaciously trying to straighten this out.

                                              Very creative suggestion you outline here, but I honestly can't go through with that idea. To go in again with the Razor and then trying to disguise the gaps where I've had to drag clips for better synch--Well, I've actually already been through that.

                                              When the Dell couldn't keep up with the project's size anymore, I did a second version of the project, rendering the best version to MPEG, then I did ANother project with those MPEGs--The computer could handle that playback. But there was no hope of successfully doing the kind of edits you're describing. Where there were still moments out of synch, the gaps were too large to fake with frames. At least I couldn't make it work anyway.

                                              It's a bit more complicated than that also--I have four possible versions of the whole show. Where one clip doesn't work so well because of synch or whatever, I can choose from the other 3 versions--IF I'm able to see what I'm doing.

                                              What I have is a less than acceptable version of this video which is of a local theatre group's play production. They were all expecting copies of this back in June. They'll have to be given what I have, but of course I can hear the groans now--"HEY, can't you fix that? Why'd you use THat shot..." etc.

                                              The Dell's specs. Well, it now has 1 gig RAM and that's as far up as it's physically able to go. 150 gig hard drive, etc--blah dee blah. I already have the .mov files on an external hard drive, since the computer just came to a crashing stop when I was trying to play them directly on its drive.

                                              I'd give more details on the Dell, but I've already slimmed it so far down, it's primarily what I record my music on--or it was. There's really no hope of getting what's there up to speed for this.

                                              I'll set it all aside, come back fresh. I know there has to be a solution. My super whopping and fast laptop surely can't be left in the dust in this particular department. Maybe a techie from the camera company could help.

                                              But for now, I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm just not up for following this particiular re-do suggestion. It's much as I've already done, and it didn't work well for me. Also--that would be easily be another month's solid work, and I just can't afford to put that much more time into it.

                                              Randy B.
                                              • 20. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                Well Randy,

                                                We tried. I hate to see someone give up on a Project, that they have poured heart and soul into, but sometimes that is best.

                                                You did introduce some mysteries, like the MOVs playing in WMP, and G-Spot not being able to peg a CODEC for them. There ARE some anomolies there.

                                                If you do get back to it, please check back in. Otherwise, tell the performers that you exercised YOUR artistic license.

                                                Hunt
                                                • 21. Re: .move files no longer working now I'm in Vista
                                                  Level 1
                                                  --UPDATES--

                                                  This project is temporarily on hold since I still can't get it to work with all the new toys I invested in specifically to finish it - BUT it's not an option to give up forever on it. I was the director of the stage production, and I also wrote the show. Besides wanting the cast and crew to have DVD archives of their work, it would be out of the question for me to not have a decent video record of the biggest project of my life. - So!--This WILL be figured out.

                                                  I FOUND A CONVERTER which reads these files! "Any Video Converter." Both the regular free version and the "Pro" version instantly recognized and worked with this multi-file .mov folder.

                                                  BUT - No matter what settings I used in the program's interface, the results were totally unacceptable. The highest quality test was extremely low in resolution compared to the original, to the point that on a TV screen it looked like the worst quality low-speed VHS you can imagine. And the image had dropped frames, making the action jerky, and the entire playback seemed at a different rate, so that even when there weren't big, obvious jumps in the action, there was an unnatural stiffness to all of the movement.

                                                  Worse - The free version which isn't supposed to have any time restructions still only converted about 1/4 of the video's length.

                                                  The other tests with both versions of "Any Video" were even worse. No sound in those, extremely jerky and even fuzzier.

                                                  I ran into "Any Video" when I was actually looking for "Total Video Converter." I talked with a tech on the phone yesterday and he highly recommended it as the best converter available. Unfortunately, the link at their site is dead. Other pages that carry "Total" also had dead links, except for one--but the version they had didn't work. The program refused to do anything, closing with an error. So I'm waiting to see when and if "Total" fixes their link. They could be doing some upgrading on the program or something like that. Right now I anxiously await trying "Total" because it seems like about the only hope.

                                                  I ran a file through "Gspot" again (why the innuendo of that product's name, by the way?--puts me off)--Because you guys were so surprised it didn't know what to do with these files.

                                                  THIS TIME, Gspot came up with different and more information than when I first tried it. It still said that the status of the codec was undertimned, but it said:

                                                  codec: DVC
                                                  name: DV

                                                  Sounds pretty generic to me. But maybe that tells you more tech-savvy guys something?

                                                  One more thing - It was so tumultuous those two days I spent on doing nothing but trying to fix this problem. I was working back and forth between three computers, including the new offline laptop where I'm trying to get all this to work, and I got confused about what I'd seen on what computer at one point.

                                                  SO--It wasn't correct to say that the Windows Media Player on the laptop could play these files, but it IS correct that the WMP on my old XP desk top plays them without any problem. In "open file" I just click on one of the folder's master files, and it plays exactly right, smoothly, crisp picture et al. In fact, it looks better, MUCH better in WMP than it does in that machine's QuickTime player. Side comment--things always sound and look crappier in QT than WMP--why's that?

                                                  On the laptop, it still remains that QuickTime Pro was of no help, and that nothing on the machine can work with these files. The one exciting split second I had yesterday was when "Any Video" was at least able to recognize the files, even though its conversion results were abominable.

                                                  The one other idea I have right now is to upgrade the desk top's QuickTime to Pro so that it can convert the files for me, since that desk top's older QuickTime plays these files just fine. But I'm afraid that if I upgrade it, then it'll end up not recognizing the .mov files, like the newer QT on the laptop. I dunno!

                                                  There ya go--MORE than anyone ever wanted to know about my particular .mov file woes.

                                                  Randy