26 Replies Latest reply on Dec 5, 2008 11:27 AM by rechmbrs

    Disc capacity too small

    rechmbrs Level 1
      I use "fit contents to available space" to either write a DVD or to save DVD data to harddrive. I now get "Disc capacity too small" error when writing to disk directly or using Nero to write from HD, I get the same.

      I have PE4 on an XPsp3-32bit, quad cpu and 1tb hd.

      Just installed Nero9. Could it have changed a routine or something?

      Thanks,
      RON C
        • 1. Re: Disc capacity too small
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
          Definitely could have.

          Have you checked with the manufacturer's web site to make sure you have the latest firmware for your drive?
          • 2. Re: Disc capacity too small
            I am having the same issue and i can not figure out why. I have done everything I can think of. I hope sombody can help....
            • 3. Re: Disc capacity too small
              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
              Have you checked with the manufacturer's web site to make sure you have the latest firmware for your drive?
              • 4. Re: Disc capacity too small
                rechmbrs Level 1
                I have latest firmware for DVD player.

                The size is only a few bytes too large when this happens. Seems like it might be a truncating type error in the math.

                Does the disc (TDK 4.7) or the drive (LiteOn IHAS120) determine the actual size? Neither have changed in the last while.

                This problem sure wastes a lot of time.

                Thanks,
                RON C
                • 5. Re: Disc capacity too small
                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                  With "Disk Capacity Too Small," is *should* indicate that the Project is just too large to fit on a DVD-5 (or that one's hard disk is too full).

                  I'd start by telling more about the respective projects, their Assets, Durations/runtimes, etc. Next, some specs on the computer, especially the I/O end (hard disks, size, number of physical drives, how they are used, and most importantly how much defragged free space is available, would be very useful.

                  That is after you follow Steve's initial advice.

                  Hunt
                  • 6. Re: Disc capacity too small
                    rechmbrs Level 1
                    Bill,

                    From above, the system is PE4 on an XPsp3-32bit, quad cpu and 1tb HD total (2 500gb SataII). Over 500gb free on HDs.

                    Videos are around 1:30 or less in length. Output is NTSC/Dolby 720x480.

                    The complaint does not show until I attempt to write the DVD and in either PE4 or Nero.

                    I tried to set the Quality instead of the using Fit to available" and the size before the yellow warning is 4.3gb. Help any?

                    This has worked many times before as I burn videos once or twice a week. Just started this week with problem.

                    RON C
                    • 7. Re: Disc capacity too small
                      Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                      A Google search indicates that this is a common bug in Nero 4.7.0.7.

                      Is that what you're using?

                      Have you downloaded the latest patches?
                      http://www.nero.com/enu/support-downloads.html
                      • 8. Re: Disc capacity too small
                        rechmbrs Level 1
                        From first post, I have Nero 9 (latest updates also) but same problem happens when I write directly to DVD in PE4.

                        RON C
                        • 9. Re: Disc capacity too small
                          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                          It could still be related to Nero -- particularly since Nero is experiencing the same problem.

                          Premiere Elements is probably using drivers that Nero installed to do its burns.
                          • 10. Re: Disc capacity too small
                            rechmbrs Level 1
                            Steve,

                            That is the question I asked in the beginning. Have any idea to find out what might have been changed?

                            Nero is ZERO in tech support but their BurningRom is excellent.

                            RON C
                            • 11. Re: Disc capacity too small
                              rechmbrs Level 1
                              Found his on NERO: http://forum.my.nero.com/index.php?showtopic=104&hl=dvd+size

                              PE4 is creating output that is greater than 4.37GB or 4483mb. One output using default method is 4.7GB. This was produced with the write to folder option. Writing directly to DVD also failed.

                              It seems that PE4 has a bad computation for length and the compression type used.

                              RON C
                              • 12. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                                That would explain a lot. But then couldn't you get it to fit to disc by manually adjusting the quality level?
                                • 13. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                  rechmbrs Level 1
                                  When I went back and used the quality level option, PE4 showed the yellow triangle above 4.3 or so. The automatic scheme made a 4.7 dataset.

                                  Someone needs to review the PE code.

                                  This probably happens very seldom where the size is at the boundary. It using DL disks, the limit is so much higher and many are most likely saved by that also.

                                  RON C
                                  • 14. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                                    Of course I'm no expert, but there is also this strange bit of math -- and if anyone can explain it, I'd like to hear.

                                    "A DVD is an optical disc with 4.7 GB (4.377 GiB) of storage capacity (more precisely, 2295104 sectors of 2048 bytes each)."

                                    Does this mean that a DVD can really only hold 4.3 gig?

                                    (A gibibyte, by the way, (a contraction of giga binary byte) is a unit of digital information storage, abbreviated GiB.)
                                    • 15. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                      New Improved Chuck Engels Level 1
                                      From Muvipix.com :)

                                      By the time you include the system/disc files you can really only get about 4.25GB of video, then you have to take into account the menu as well which can be calculated separately. Most likely you could cut 30 seconds or less from the project and it would all work fine. Must be right at the brink of the single layer/dual layer border.

                                      To make it easy - it's usually somewhere around 4.3GB using Base2
                                      (1024 * 1024) as noted in the above example. The 4.7GB number is a
                                      Base10 (1000 * 1000) misnomer.

                                      A single layer DVD will only hold 4.3GB of anything, there are also files that are put on the disc that the player uses to determine format, audio, menu and other things about the DVD and how to play it. Those files also take up space. You cannot fit 4.3GB or more onto a single layer DVD, you either need to lower the quality (if it can be lowered anymore), change to a dual layer DVD or, cut something out of your video project, about 30 seconds or so would probably be enough.
                                      • 16. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                        Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                                        Well, if there's an answer to be found, the folks at http://www.muvipix.com will find it! Thanks, Chuck!

                                        I'm just surprised Adobe didn't make allowances for this. Shouldn't "Fit to disk" actually create files that fit on a disk?
                                        • 17. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                          Ed.Macke Level 3
                                          A DVD holds 4,700,000,000 bytes.

                                          But, there's confusion as to what a "gigabyte" actually is, basically due to whether you're using base 10 (human) or base 2 (computer binary) terms.

                                          Base 10 (human) math means a gigabyte = 10^9, or a billion bytes.

                                          Binary math (base 2) means a gigabyte = 2^30, or 1,073,741,824 bytes. Trust me on this.

                                          IOW, a "gigabyte" can either be 1,000,000,000 or 1,073,741,824 bytes.

                                          Human Math: Take 4,700,000,000 bytes and divide it by 1,000,000,000, you get 4.7.

                                          Binary Math: Take 4,700,000,000 bytes and divide it by 1,073,741,824, you get 4.377.

                                          So although a DVD will hold 4,700,000,000 bytes, whether this is called 4.7GB or 4.3GB (actually more like 4.4GB, but who's counting?) depends on how you define a "GB".

                                          FWIW, storage medium like hard drives, DVDs, CDs, memory sticks, etc. use human math. Computer memory uses binary math. Confusing, no?

                                          The term "gibibyte" was developed to avoid just such confusion. I suspect it hasn't caught on mostly because it's a stupid-sounding word.
                                          • 18. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                            rechmbrs Level 1
                                            I understand the difference berween base 10 and base 2 math but that dosen't solve the problem. I just want it fixed so I don't have to redo the compilation after it fails. I purchase Adobe products because I have been told that I can depend on them to make doing things easier. Adobe should fix it in PE4 and 7.

                                            RON C
                                            • 19. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                              New Improved Chuck Engels Level 1
                                              You can only compress files so much, the problem is that the software cannot calculate how much space will be necessary until it is finished transcoding and encoding the files, including the menu. This is no different from any software package including Premiere Pro and Encore DVD. The best thing you can do is to make sure you do not come that close to using the full disc, a one hour project is really pretty long, 1.5 hours is a lot, 2 hours is just plain crazy 8)
                                              • 20. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                Ronald,

                                                Two thoughts. Now, others might have to make a correction, or two, to some of what I'm going to say, because I use PP and Encore, not PE to create/author my DVDs.

                                                Audio on NTSC DVD's must be either PCM/WAV or DD AC3. When I am creating the Assets for the DVD's, I use the DD AC3 for two reasons:
                                                I'm always doing DD 5.1 SS, so I need AC3, but the other is that it is much smaller than an otherwise equal PCM/WAV.

                                                Now the part that I do not know. If you CAN select the Audio Transcode settings in PE, and it's on PCM/WAV, try DD AC3. The resulting file will be smaller. This selection might not be available, or you may already have the Audio Transcoded to AC3, rendering my thought moot. If it is NOT available, I'd guess that PE uses DD AC3 for Audio.

                                                Next, you might try a program, DVD Shrink. You'll need to Burn to your HDD (but you can even lie about the final DVD size, just to get it to go through the motions and get your DVD structure. Then, run that through DVD Shrink. It has some pretty powerful compression alogrithms, and might be able to get your data down to size.

                                                Chuck is right in that data can be compressed only so far. At some point, critical mass has been reached. Still, different algorithms can sometimes work better. (I use Photoshop to re-size all still images, because I like its algorithms, better than Premiere Pro's.)

                                                Also, since PE uses 2-pass VBR to Transcode, it has no idea how good a job it's going to be able to do, until the end of the second pass.

                                                There are several commercial encoders that will get you 9-10 passes, thus squeezing even more out of a movie. Think Hollywood there. Also, these are run by people, who are highly-paid experts in their field and do nothing else all day, every day. I believe that MainConcept (just bought, by DivX) offers one with 5-pass capability, though it is not cheap. Really good Transcoding software can run up to US$50,000. Obviously not something that any of us is likely to have access to in our lifetimes. Even if I had it, I'd likely not live long enough to learn to use it effectively.

                                                Personally, I've gotten 2 hours of footage, with Menus and sub-Menus and DD 5.1 SS on SD DVD-5's with adequate quality. Any more, or if the quality of the footage is good enough to begin with, I just either edit for 2 - DVD-s's, or 1 - DVD-9.

                                                Good luck,

                                                Hunt
                                                • 21. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                                  rechmbrs Level 1
                                                  Guys,

                                                  If you look at what I said above, the program allows me to use a quality slider and tells me when the size is tooooooo large but the automatic way just creates what it decides. Seems to me the two should at least use the same logic - the automatic using inverse to the user method.

                                                  It is like two programmers worked on the two options separately.

                                                  Does Adobe have someone who will speak up?

                                                  RON C
                                                  • 22. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                                    Paul_LS Level 4
                                                    An old Robert J. Johnston post discussed this issue a year or so back... if you can find it.
                                                    • 23. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                                      rechmbrs Level 1
                                                      I'll just give up on this. I probably won't purchase PE7 as the price seems way high for what is gained over PE4.

                                                      RON C
                                                      • 24. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                                        Robert J. Johnston Level 2
                                                        Paul, That thread is now just on Elements Group Browser. You'll have to page through the posts till you get to post #17. Here is where it starts:

                                                        http://adobe.groupbrowser.com/threadpage194540-1-10-4.37.html

                                                        I'm not sure if the solution would solve Ronald's problem, but here is what I said:

                                                        Bingo!!!

                                                        There's a bug with Premiere Elements 3.0.2 when it calculates the disc space and bitrate requirements for projects over 1 hour and 15 minutes approximately. The problem seems to start where the maximum bitrate is lower than 8.00Mbps and the "Fit contents to available space" option is selected. If you uncheck that option and then move the slider to 4.37GB, well, if it's not available then you are subject to the error.

                                                        The trick is to add a matte or black video to the end of your movie so that when you do uncheck "fit contents to available space" you can select 4.37GB and same bitrate with the slider. A lot of times that is not available.

                                                        I'm sure there is a formula that could tell you where to end your movie so you don't get the error. I had to find the spot by trial and error. It's different for PAL and NTSC.

                                                        For the project you emailed me, I had to add black video to the end of the project so that when I pressed the "END" key, the CTI was at 01:46:00:00. The black video was 00:14:38:22 duration. I also put a stop marker at the beginning of the black video so the movie would not play into the black video. When I went to burn the DVD to folder, the 4.37GB and bitrate that PE automatically calculated was also available when I manually adjusted the slider. I was able to burn without error.

                                                        For some reason, I couldn't stop the error just by lowering the space requirements and bitrate.

                                                        Since you have the actual source media in your project, the duration of the extra black video to add to the end of your movie will probably be different. You can start with what I used, and then add or subtract one minute duration at a time from the black video until you narrow in to 4.37GB with the slider. Then to fine tune it, add or subtract one second at a time from the black video duration until you can select with the slider the same GB and bitrate the PE automatically calculated with the "Fit contents to available space" option checked -- all without getting the yellow exclamation point. This stuff has to be exact to within a few frames, like plus or minus 4 frames.

                                                        I hope you can successfully burn your project.
                                                        • 25. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                          Robert,

                                                          Thank you for putting an earlier thread into an abstract. I did not recall ever seeing that problem, or your post for a workaround. I'll bet that it helps others.

                                                          Your efforts are appreciated,

                                                          Hunt
                                                          • 26. Re: Disc capacity too small
                                                            rechmbrs Level 1
                                                            Robert,

                                                            My problem is simple and works fine if I use the slider and not the Fit contents to available space option.

                                                            You identified this problem in PE3. It was not fixed in PE4 and I'll bet in PE7. All Adobe has to do is also check the default method to the criteria with the slider. If it doesn't pass, don't procede and tell the user. I had one output that was 4.7gb using the default. I have one front page and no other menu stuff. Seems like they could get that correct.

                                                            Enough.

                                                            RON C