27 Replies Latest reply on Jan 27, 2009 2:11 AM by Robert J. Johnston

    Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"

    Ed.Macke Level 3
      Previously, when I scene-detected (by content... it's an old analog tape) "tape7.avi", it created:
      *a folder named "tape7",
      *each clip named "tape7-0000", "tape7-0001", etc.

      I believe that was done in PE4.

      Now, in PE7, I do the same thing: import a "tape8.avi" and scene-detect. But now it creates
      *a folder named "tape8.avi"
      *every clip is named the same thing: "tape8.avi".

      Obviously, having 100 clips all named the same thing is less-than-helpful.

      I keep thinking this is a setting somewhere that I'm missing, but I can't find it.

      How do I get my scene-detected clips to have unique names (e.g. tape8-0000)?
        • 1. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
          That's definitely not my experience, Ed. It works the same way in both versions 4 and 7, whatever title you give the captured video is amended with a number as each scene is captured.
          • 2. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
            Ed.Macke Level 3
            So I wonder what I'm doing wrong?

            Does it make any difference whether I do the scene detect as part of the capture, or later by right-clicking the AVI?

            I notice during capture, I get the option of by timecode or by content analysis (since it's analog original, I can't use timecode).

            Right-clicking the AVI only gives me the content analysis option (along with every x seconds or x # of scenes).

            Color me confused.
            • 3. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
              Ed.Macke Level 3
              One other thing that seems odd: the folder name is "tape8.avi 01", not simply "tape8".

              Also, I've deleted everything for tape8 except the tape8.avi. When I right-click on the AVI (Edit > Project) and say "scene detect", it creates all the duplicate "tape8.avi" clip names, but it does so almost instantly... given the speed, I know it can't actually be doing a scene analysis and has to be using something cached......????
              • 4. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                Ed.Macke Level 3
                I started from scratch, just to make sure...

                I deleted *everything* having to do with tape8.

                I used PE7 Capture, settings:
                Capturing Source: Microsoft DV Camera and VCR, Full Motion
                Clip Name: tape8.avi
                Save To: c:\documents\my video\home movies
                Capture Video
                Capture Audio
                Do not capture to timeline
                Split scenes, By Content
                No smart tagging.

                Under general Capture settings,
                Don't abort capture on dropped frames
                Don't report dropped frames
                Don't use device control timecode

                I push "Capture" and it captures a 27GB .avi (about 2 hours), does a scene analyze, and creates "tape8.avi 01" folder, with around 250 clips *ALL* named tape8.avi.

                What the...?
                • 5. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                  Robert J. Johnston Level 2
                  You show the ".avi" as part of the name. Which column are you looking under, Media File Path?

                  Anyway, all mine show zoo-0001, zoo-0002, zoo-0003... under the Name column in the zoo01 folder.
                  • 6. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                    Robert J. Johnston Level 2
                    Okay, now I see the problem. Forget my previous post. I don't have an answer either.
                    • 7. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                      Ed.Macke Level 3
                      I wish I could post a screen shot.

                      I add the AVI to the project, and go to Edit > Project. The recently added item says "tape8.avi" under the Name column, and "Movie" under media type.

                      If I right-click on the "tape8.avi" and do "Scene Detect", it creates a folder called "tape8.avi 01".

                      Expanding that folder shows oodles of clips all called "tape8.avi" under the Name column, Media Type = "Movie"

                      In my previous projects (tape7), I see the same thing as you: tape7.avi, a "tape7" folder, and clips names tape7-0001, tape7-0002 with Media Type = "Movie". FWIW, that was imported with PRE4. The problem tape is my first import with PRE7.
                      • 8. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                        Ed.Macke Level 3
                        I give up!

                        I've tried troubleshooting this, and still get the same result no matter what I do.

                        *I rebooted.
                        *I caputred the AVI using WinDV and using built-in Premiere capture.
                        *I tried scene detect as part of Premiere capture; separately after Premiere capture; separately after WinDV capture
                        *I've tried different names for the capture AVI
                        *I've cleared out every reference to the captured AVI (cached files, autosaves, etc.)
                        *I've started new projects and added the AVI and did new scene detect (according to Adobe doc, scene analysis is by project)
                        *I let PRE finish its "creating peak file for tape8.avi..." and I've started the scene analysis before it finished the peak file generation

                        No matter what I do, every single "detected" clip is named exactly the same. No sequence number.

                        I keep looking for a checkbox that says "Append sequence number for scene detect" that's not checked, because that would explain things, but I haven't found it yet!

                        Frustrating beyond belief, and I'm out of ideas short of re-installing PRE7. I would do that if I had even the slightest hope that it would fix it. But since I just recently installed PRE7, I highly doubt re-installing it will fix anything.

                        BTW, I did check and verify that this is the first AVI I've captured with PRE7. The last AVI I captured was with PRE4 and everything was fine.
                        • 9. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                          Robert J. Johnston Level 2
                          You don't need to reinstall Premiere Elements. The same thing happens to me when I follow your steps. It seems that "detect by content" is broken regarding numbering. If you use one of the other two means to break up the clip into scenes then the sequence numbers are there.
                          • 10. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                            Ed.Macke Level 3
                            Robert,

                            Thanks for verifying my results!! It's nice to know I'm not going crazy! :)

                            Of course, not so nice is that sequencing is broke - my workflow really depends on those sequence numbers.

                            You mention "one of the other two means..." What would those other two means be?

                            I'm guessing that one of them is "timecode", but I can't do that because the original tape is analog.
                            • 11. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                              New Improved Chuck Engels Level 1
                              Ed, Doesn't the WinDV capture work for you? WinDV lets you select the way the clips are named and numbered, it even works correctly unlike Premiere Elements numbering system which has been wrong since the beginning.

                              Windows Movie Maker would be another option.
                              • 12. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                Robert J. Johnston Level 2
                                One of the other two means is creating scenes by specifying how many scenes you want total. The other means is specifying an interval. For those I get sequence numbers.
                                • 13. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                  Ed.Macke Level 3
                                  Yes, the WinDV capture worked fine. But for that matter, the Premiere capture worked fine, too.

                                  The problem appears to be strictly with Premiere's Scene Detect By Content.

                                  I really want/need to split the video by content. As I understand, WinDV's options will only divide clips by size (frames, file size, etc), and Premiere's "other" options are variations on that (interval does the same thing as WinDV, and presumably scene-split by number of scenes would compute the total length of the clip and split it into X number of equal size pieces).

                                  In other words, scene detect is broken (no sequence numbers) and all the other options are just different methods of breaking a video into equal size chunks.

                                  If I want scene detection, it seems my options (unless I'm missing something) are:
                                  *Live with the scene detect sequence problem until Adobe fixes it
                                  *Get Scenalyzer Live or something similar

                                  BTW, is this an issue with just split by content, or does the PRE7 split by timecode have the same problem?
                                  • 14. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                    New Improved Chuck Engels Level 1
                                    RJ said that the other capture options work fine, it is just the split by content option.

                                    Have you checked Windows Movie Maker? Does it have a split by content option?

                                    In my testing the Premiere Elements split by content capture never worked very well anyway, I was always having to tweak the clips anyway.

                                    Capture by Timecode has always been what I consider the best way to capture, what is it about splitting by timecode that you don't like?
                                    • 15. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                      Ed.Macke Level 3
                                      BTW, thank you everybody for the suggestions.

                                      I thought my previous post might have sounded unappreciative, so I wanted to specifically say thanks.

                                      I'm just a little frustrated with Adobe because their little sequencing bug makes for a huge problem with my workflow. Doubly irritating is that this is a feature that was working in prior releases. Arrgh!

                                      I've divided videos using the "chunk" approach before, and found that, well, less than useful. But I *do* appreciate the ideas!!
                                      • 16. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                        New Improved Chuck Engels Level 1
                                        Looks like Windows Movie Maker would work just fine

                                        >To create clips for an existing video clip
                                        In the Contents pane, select the video clip for which you want to detect clips.
                                        On the Tools menu, click Create Clips.

                                        >Note
                                        The video clip is divided into clips according to the video source. If the video clip is from a DV camera, clips are created based on the time stamps inserted by the DV camera. If time stamps or other file markers are not present, clips are based on each significant frame change in the video. If the video clip is from an analog source, clips are created based on each significant frame change in the video.

                                        The analog captures will not have timecode so the program will automatically split them by scene detection. The exporting of them all might be a problem however unless it creates separate files for each, not sure about that.
                                        • 17. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                          Ed.Macke Level 3
                                          Chuck,

                                          No, I haven't tried Movie Maker. I certainly can. My only question is how that would work... Premiere's split by content actually just creates in-and-out markers for the original video, and those markers are part of the project.

                                          So if I use Movie Maker, will that actually create separate AVI files? If not, how would I get Movie Maker's analysis into Premiere?

                                          I would *LOVE* to use split by timecode! The problem is the tape I'm capturing doesn't have a timecode... they were shot on an analog 8mm camcorder (they are from 1992). My Sony 8mm digital camcorder can read the analog 8mm and output them on iLink but they're still analog source. My newer videos are DV-AVI, and I always split by timecode for them.
                                          • 18. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                            New Improved Chuck Engels Level 1
                                            >I would *LOVE* to use split by timecode! The problem is the tape I'm capturing doesn't have a timecode... they were shot on an analog 8mm camcorder (they are from 1992).

                                            Yup, sorry Ed I forgot for a minute that this was analog we were talking about.

                                            The only question left is whether WMM will actually create separate files from the scene detection, not sure. It does do scene detect by content on anything without timecode as I posted above.

                                            Maybe you can try a short clip and see what happens. If there aren't a lot of scene changes you can export them from WMM I suppose.

                                            Have you ever thought about just capturing the whole thing as one big clip and then splitting it up manually in the clip monitor? That's how I do all of my analog VHS tapes.
                                            • 19. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                              Ed.Macke Level 3
                                              >Have you ever thought about just capturing the whole thing as one big clip and then splitting it up manually in the clip monitor

                                              Yeah... and then I thought about the headache I'd get :)

                                              Seriously, yes, I had thought about that. I also considered just renaming all the clips PRE created to have sequence numbers. Seems like a lot of work, plus I have about 15 more tapes to go through...

                                              I'll try out the WMM idea. I hope it can output the files, and that it will output them in DV-AVI.

                                              If that doesn't work, I think I may investigate Scenealyzer. I D/L the trial and it seemed to work pretty well. The only downside seemed to be the $35 cost.
                                              • 20. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                                New Improved Chuck Engels Level 1
                                                It really isn't as hard as you might think to go through the one big clip. splitting it manually from the clip monitor and creating sub clips is easy. Set the In point, set the Out Point, save the sub clip.
                                                Do that over and over again, that's all.

                                                Depending on what I am working on it is even easier to add the whole thing to the timeline and just edit out what I don't want. An hour long tape usually only takes me about 20 minutes or so, sometimes not even that long. Just depends on how many scenes there are.

                                                Do you do anything with the individual clips, archiving purposes or something? That would make this process of little help to you then.

                                                The thing that the Movie Maker document says that worries me is that it splits 'after' capture, not during. That leads me to believe that separate clips are not going to be created, but you never know till you try.

                                                Be sure to report back the results :)
                                                • 21. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                                  Barb__O Level 4
                                                  >The only question left is whether WMM will actually create separate files from the scene detection,

                                                  I do not think that WMM creates separate files. However, I don't have a sample here on this laptop to verify, so Ed I will be interested in your results.
                                                  • 22. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                                    Ed.Macke Level 3
                                                    I will definitely try out the WMM approach and report back. In the mean time, I'm going to create a separate thread to see if Scenealyzer would be the best "Plan B".
                                                    • 23. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                                      Ed.Macke Level 3
                                                      Chuck,

                                                      To answer your questions, each tape is 2 hours. When Premiere does the scene analysis, it gets pretty close, and usually creates about 250 clips. Most of these tapes are of family parties and whatnot, and span multiple months. So there really are a lot of scenes to deal with.

                                                      I'm not sure what you mean by "what do I do with the clips". After they're created, I review them in the monitor to see if there's anything worth keeping (usually, almost every clip has at least a little worth saving). I'll then put the clip on the timeline and slice-n-dice as necessary... sometimes I'll just trim the beginning and end... other times I'll end up splitting the clip and using several parts of it. Does that make sense?

                                                      I've never really created subclips manually. I suppose I could try, but just thinking about trying to create 250 clips sounds like mucho worko. :) I would definitely have to go that route, as opposed to putting it on the timeline and editing out the crud.
                                                      • 24. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                                        Robert J. Johnston Level 2
                                                        Well, well, well, well, well. This is interesting.

                                                        Premiere Elements no longer physically splits scenes by timecode. And in order for PRE to mark the in and out points of the virtual clips, you need to select at least one item to analyze under Smart Tagging. Come to think of it, I haven't verified that PRE7 split the virtual clips by timecode correctly, yikes.

                                                        When you look at the way the scenes are named, they all have the same name. Booooo!

                                                        Windows Movie Maker in XP does not physically split scenes. Booooo!
                                                        • 25. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                                          Robert J. Johnston Level 2
                                                          In my previous post I noted that I didn't check to see if the detect scenes by timecode was marking the correct spots. Well, it's not.
                                                          • 26. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                                            Ed.Macke Level 3
                                                            >"...interesting."

                                                            That's one word for it. :)
                                                            • 27. Re: Scene Detect - Duplicate "Filename"
                                                              Robert J. Johnston Level 2
                                                              I think you can rest a little bit easier knowing that my cheap Samsung MiniDV camcorder records or maybe doesn't record something on tape that keeps Premiere Elements 7 and Premiere Elements 2 from detecting when the record button was pushed. Neither version physically splits the tape. Premiere Elements 2 never had scene detect by content. There definitely is timecode and datecode on the tape, but something is missing.