10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 11, 2009 11:58 AM by New Improved Chuck Engels

    Beat Markers

    Ed.Macke Level 3
      Can anybody explain (or point me to an explanation) of how beat markers work? I've search the help files, this forum, the web... and nothing really except how to create them - which I already know.

      Specifically, I'm looking for how clips behave when they are under or close to a beat marker.

      Last night, I created a beat marker above a clip, and it almost seemed as if the clip was anchored to the timeline - I tried moving it but instead got some sort of dragging function? It was weird. In and out point handles might have been different, too.... not sure.

      I didn't have a lot of time to play around, but Premiere definitely acted differently on clips under beat markers than on other clips. Or maybe it's something else I was doing? Dunno. I tried to do some research but came up empty.

      ETA: PRE7
        • 1. Re: Beat Markers
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
          Well, I do cover it in my book, step by step. ;)

          If by beat marker, you mean the little musical notes that appear when you use Find Beats on a music clip.

          Those markers can be used manually, as you create your timeline. Or, if you use the Create Slideshow feature, you can set the program to add clips and automatically change them at each beat marker.
          • 2. Re: Beat Markers
            Ed.Macke Level 3
            Yes, the little blue notes!

            I created them using the Find Beats (sub-par results, but I haven't given up tweaking settings to see if I can get better results... seems like it would be a cool feature) and manually. I haven't used the Create Slideshow.

            I can get the little buggers generated, but clips on the timeline underneath them seem to operate under a different set of rules than clips under any other marker!

            So question #1 is: am I truly seeing different clip behavior under a beat marker, or is that due to something else (I wasn't drinking, but it was pretty late so maybe punch drunk?)

            And question #2 is: if it is different behavior, is that behavior what you're saying is covered in your book?
            • 3. Re: Beat Markers
              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
              You won't say any special behavior because there's a beat marker or unnumbered marker on your timeline.

              They're just there as bookmarks, for your reference. (If you right-click on the tic marks along the top of the timeline, you can select the option to jump from marker to marker.)

              About the only time they're truly functional is when you use the Create Slideshow feature.
              • 4. Re: Beat Markers
                Ed.Macke Level 3
                >You won't say any special behavior because there's a beat marker or unnumbered marker on your timeline.

                Hmm. Well, let me go back to the drawing board, because I had both unnumbered and beat markers and I could have *sworn* I saw different behavior with clips under the beat markers.

                For example, I tried dragging the clip to a new location, and it wouldn't move... instead, a kind of "vertical bar" cursor appeared and dragging caused the clip to lengthen on one side. It was not the usual "bracket" cursor used to stretch the clip.

                Just to be clear, you're saying that a beat marker should function no differently than an unnumbered marker, right?

                Like I said, let me try again....

                Thanks!
                • 5. Re: Beat Markers
                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                  They're identical. Adobe just made beat markers cuter in version 7.
                  • 6. Re: Beat Markers
                    Ed.Macke Level 3
                    OK, here's the behavior I'm seeing.

                    I have a DV-AVI clip that's 23 seconds long. I start a new project and put it at timeline position 0.

                    I put the CTI at 1;00;02, and manually place a beat marker. So now I've got a 23 second clip, about 40 seconds of nothing, and then a beat marker. So far, so good.

                    Now, I start dragging my clip toward the beat marker. Just a normal click + drag. At some point, the right edge of the clip hits the beat marker and "snaps" to it, as indicated by the black vertical line.

                    But here's the weird part...if I don't release the mouse and keep dragging, the right edge stays snapped to the beat marker but the left edge (indicated by a white vertical line) continues moving - meaning the clip is now being shortened!

                    At some point, the clip reaches some magical length and all of a sudden the right edge "unsnaps" (i.e. becomes unlocked from the beat market), and the right edge jumps to the right on the timeline and the clip is now back to its original length.

                    I played around, and if I released the mouse after the clip shortening started but right before the right edge unsnaps (i.e. maximum shortening effect), I find the clip has been shortened to 0;0;18;06 (from 0;0;23;02). The only thing I did was drag the clip!

                    I tried the same thing with an unnumbered marker and this definitely does NOT happen. The right side of the clip will snap to the marker, but as I keep dragging, nothing happens... the right side stays put, the left side stays put... until I drag far enough and then the whole clip (with intact length) jumps to the new mouse location.

                    Just out of curiosity, I tried the beat marker test by placing a clip to the right (i.e. past) the beat marker and dragging the clip left. Oddly, when the left side snaps to the marker, normal behavior occurs. The length remains intact until I drag far enough and then the clip jumps to the left to the new mouse location.

                    If I continue dragging left to the point where the right side now snaps to the beat marker, the second it snaps the clip instantly becomes 0;0;18;03 in length. If I continue dragging left, now the left side continues moving left while the right side remains put, in effect lengthening the clip.

                    Watching the behavior, I'm wondering if this is just a bug in Premiere.
                    • 7. Re: Beat Markers
                      In case of beat markers, if you move or place set of photos/videos on timeline they tend to snap to the beat markers, so that you get the cut at the beat locations.
                      • 8. Re: Beat Markers
                        the_wine_snob Level 9
                        Ed,

                        It appears from your tests, that Snap gets really "strong" with regards to Beat markers, and adds an additional "feature." What I would do is turn Snap off, Timeline>Snap, until you had your Clip(s) in the general area that you want them, then turn it back on to Snap [to the Beat].

                        When syncing Audio to Video, I always work with Snap off, but remember to turn it back on, when I am done with that edit.

                        Last note: if you have "spaces" in your Video, I'd go back and add Black Video (Project Panel>New>Black Video) and size it to fill the gaps. Many have experienced problems (often Failed to Return Frame errors), when there are gaps in the Video. Some, however, do not seem to encounter any problems. I still fill gaps religiously with Black Video, using Dip-to-Black (or Cross-dissolves) as Transitions.

                        I'll have to explore Detect Beats, because I have not used it in PE. I'll usually use the * key (numerical keypad) to set these and manually edit to them. Thanks for pointing out the behavior of the Beat Markers, as it would have thrown me too. I can see why it does what it does, considering that the user has already said, "detect the beats, because I wish to edit to those." Still, I would not have expected it to be so "strong" about it. Your observation is appreciated.

                        Hunt
                        • 9. Re: Beat Markers
                          Ed.Macke Level 3
                          > that Snap gets really "strong" with regards to Beat markers, and adds an additional "feature."

                          Yes, very well put! I'm still not sure whether it's intentional on Adobe's part, or a bug, but either way, there's definitely some different/odd behavior associated with beat markers.

                          Another thing to note about this behavior... my tests used a single clip with a single beat marker to illustrate the problem, err, I mean feature. :) But where it gets REALLY weird is when you have multiple beat markers close together (as you would for music).

                          Oh well. I'm glad I did the test to figure out what was going on, at least now I know what it's doing (although I'm not sure *why*) and how to work around it.

                          Re: black spaces. I never leave spaces - at least not intentionally. That was only for my test. However, I had been adding the "black video" by just creating a blank title and sizing it - thanks for the tip about New > Black Video... that's MUCH easier!! :)

                          Also, thanks for the tip about the "*" key to manually set beat markers. I've tried about 6 ways from Sunday to get the Detect Beat to work, and have yet to get a result that's usable. What's really perplexing is how PRE creates randomly spaced beat markers... like the interval from #1 to #2 will be one second, then #2 to #3 will be 1.5 seconds, then #3 to #4 will be .5 second, then it skips 2 seconds... what in the heck kind of music does Premiere think we've created?!?! I would think that a default behavior would be to at least create consistently spaced intervals... generally speaking music has a fairly consistent tempo beginning to end. Sometimes you may get a tempo change, but it's not going to change 4 times within a measure, you know? Well, a gripe for another thread! :)
                          • 10. Re: Beat Markers
                            New Improved Chuck Engels Level 1
                            Maybe this will help
                            http://muvipix.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=39663#p39663