18 Replies Latest reply on Apr 3, 2009 7:09 AM by the_wine_snob

    Menu background loop problem

    Level 1
      I have burned my first DVD with PRE 7.
      In the main menu and sub menu the loop (the background music) does not play entirely. For at the end of the loop it jumps about 200 ms earlier to the start. A pity.
      But when previewing the menu's (in the Disc Menu monitor), the loops play perfect.
      [Loops made with Audition 3].

      With Cyberlink DVD Suite this jumping is a bit more notacible then when playing with Windows Media Player 11.
      I did not test it with a standalone DVD player yet.

      In the Project window the duration of the loop for the main menu shows
      00.00.17.126 ms. But in the Disc Menu window it shows, right after inserting the wav file (the loop), 00.00.17.0 ms.
      And you can not make this larger, only smaller. It's the same thing with the sub menu.
      But when previewing the menu's (in the Disc Menu monitor), the loops play perfect.

      Does anybody knows a solution, please?
        • 1. Re: Menu background loop problem
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
          So are you saying that your music loop is ending 1/5 of a second too soon?
          • 2. Re: Menu background loop problem
            Ed.Macke Level 3
            So are you saying you have a video clip and a separate audio clip?

            * What are the In Points for each clip?
            * What are the durations for each clip?
            * Do you have "Apply Default Transistion" set?

            I had a similar problem, although I'm scratching my head trying to remember exactly what was wrong.

            Also, I always take what's shown in the "preview" with a grain of salt. Half of the time the video doesn't even play, but it works fine on the actual DVD. I think the "preview" is meant to be more of a rough approximation that exactly what you'll see, or at least it works out that way.
            • 3. Re: Menu background loop problem
              Level 1
              Yes, Steve. That happens on the burning DVD. But when previewing the menu's (in the Disc Menu monitor in PRE 7), the music loop plays perfect.

              With Cyberlink DVD Suite it is a bit more notacible then when playing with Windows Media Player 11.
              Thus when playing with Windows Media Player 11 the music loop is ending let's say 1/6 of a second too soon.

              And when playing with Cyberlink DVD Suite, you can see how the navigational slider is jumping too soon to the beginning. Then you can see the same thing when you watch the collapse time and the duration; collapse time jumps from 16 to the beginning, while duration is 17 seconds.
              • 4. Re: Menu background loop problem
                Level 1
                Hi Ed, I don't have a video clip in the main menu, only a JPG image and the music loop.

                1. All In Points are set to 00:00:00.000 seconds.
                2. Duration music loop is 17.126 seconds, but in the Disc Menu window it shows 00.00.17.0 seconds.
                3. I don't have "Apply Default Transition" set.
                • 5. Re: Menu background loop problem
                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional
                  But, again -- just to be sure -- we're talking about 1/5 of a second.
                  • 6. Re: Menu background loop problem
                    Ed.Macke Level 3
                    Dang. That rules out my ideas.

                    So you're saying that the menu loop plays for 17.0 seconds and immediately starts over at the beginning. Meaning it's cutting off the last .126 seconds of your audio clip?

                    And you're saying that even though you know for a fact the audio clip is 17.126 seconds long, the menu editor is saying it's 17.000 seconds long and not letting you increase that value?
                    • 7. Re: Menu background loop problem
                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                      Ben,

                      The Menu is likely looping on the Video (Motion Background Video), and is not taking into account the few extra Ms of time, that the Audio file exceeds this. I'd do one of two things:

                      1.) shorten the loop by the amount of time needed to match, or come in just short of the Video

                      2.) Import the Motion Menu Video Asset into PE7 (separate Project), and extend it by a couple of frames. One could use the Time Stretch Tool, or could simply dupe the last frame, as a still and have it's Duration of only a couple of frames. If this still image is noticed, I'd go back to method #1.

                      There is also a Duration limit with Motion Menus. I *think* that PE's is less, but Adobe Encore's is 30 sec.. Maybe someone will give you the exact Duration allowed in PE.

                      Because what we know as "DVD" is really DVD-Video, it's also not a good idea to have any Audio Asset whose Duration exceeds that of the accompanying Video Asset's Duration. The tiny difference is probably getting you by, without a crash on Burn.

                      Good luck,

                      Hunt
                      • 8. Re: Menu background loop problem
                        Ed.Macke Level 3
                        I'm pretty sure PRE also has a 30-second limit.

                        Hunt: I think the OP said he just has a JPG with audio, no video. I've never done this, so I'm not sure how you would specify the loop length - maybe you don't?
                        • 9. Re: Menu background loop problem
                          Level 1
                          Steve, I'm not sure if it is exactly 1/5 of a second, because the collapse time only shows in hours, minutes and seconds, not milliseconds.

                          Ed, yes it's cutting off the last .126 seconds of the audio clip and it's really not letting me increase that value, but only decrease it.
                          But when previewing the menu's (in the Disc Menu monitor in PRE 7), the audio clip loops perfect.

                          Bill, I don't have a Video (Motion Background Video) in the main menu, only a JPG image and the Audio file.
                          But talking about " DVD" is really DVD-Video, my project is in .m2ts format.
                          • 10. Re: Menu background loop problem
                            Level 1
                            And I also have an audio clip in the sub menu, the audio clip duration is 21.438 seconds, but in the the Disc Menu window it shows 21.1 seconds and I can't increase that neither.
                            • 11. Re: Menu background loop problem
                              the_wine_snob Level 9
                              Ed,

                              Thanks. I'm not sure where I got the idea that there was a Motion Menu with a Motion Background. It's late enough in the day, that I should be awake.

                              In that case, I'd set the Audio Loop up in Audition and use the appropriate SMPTE Timecode, so that one has a Duration that equal to Hr:Min:Sec:Frame, and not Audio Units. My guess is that the SMPTE Timecode stops just short, hence the truncation.

                              Hunt

                              [Edit] Ed, you are correct on the 30sec. Duration in PE. In Encore it's 40sec. I knew that there was a difference, but could not pull the exact Duration times up.
                              • 12. Re: Menu background loop problem
                                Level 1
                                Yes Bill, I'll try that SMPTE thing, but first I'm going to sleep , because it's sleeping time here in Holland.

                                Now another weird thing. I just replace the menu template for a HD one, and now I can hear the last .126 seconds of the audio clip is cutting off.
                                But when using a non-HD one and previewing the menu (in the Disc Menu monitor in PRE 7), the audio clip loops perfect.
                                • 13. Re: Menu background loop problem
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                  Boy, that last paragraph has me stumped. Other than the obvious size and PAR differences, I cannot imagine why one would play completely, but the other would not. Something for me to ponder.

                                  Good night, and good luck. If I find anything of use, I'll add to the thread.

                                  Hunt

                                  PS there is a poster, most often on the Adobe Encore forum, Neil Wilkes, who is the guru on DVD audio. I'll post there (though it's not an Encore problem), and see if Neil has any ideas.
                                  • 14. Re: Menu background loop problem
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                    Is the final disc audio being converted to .ac3? Because if it is, then Dolby recommends that you give the AC3 decoder as much as 2 seconds of, as Neil calls it, "audio black" in order to lock on to the audio stream.

                                    It seems from the discussion so far that not giving the decoder enough time to lock on to the stream is the problem.

                                    The way to beat this is to put a short fade up at the start of the loop, and a short fade out at the end of it.
                                    • 15. Re: Menu background loop problem
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                      Jeff,

                                      Thank you for weighing-in on this one.

                                      Hunt
                                      • 16. Re: Menu background loop problem
                                        Level 1
                                        Now I tried another HD template, and now it's perfect again (in the preview).

                                        I tried something with SMPTE in Au 3 in File Info section and use the Save Sample option. There I chose 24 ftp (film). But this did not help.
                                        Although I noticed that, when I choose SMPTE 24 ftp (film) in Au 3, it shows
                                        00.00.17.03 and this looks similar as 00.00.17.0, that shows in the Disc Menu
                                        window in PRE 7.

                                        I also tried the Dolby thing, what Jeff said, but also did not help.

                                        Then I remembered the word '1/5 second' said by Steve; and then I went to do some research about that. First I added 1/5 second at the end of the loop in Au 3.
                                        The result was that the timing was nearly correct, but you could 'hear' a very short gap ( I think 1/5 second silence). Then I copied the last 1/5 seconds of the loop and add it at the end of the loop. But then you hear a bit too much at the end of the loop (added piece).
                                        At last I tried to add just 5 ms at the end of the loop in Au 3, but the result was the same as adding 1/5 second, but the gap was shorter.
                                        This last try gave the best result.
                                        Strange everything, and I ain't gonna try nothing anymore.

                                        Thanks for all the hints, everybody!

                                        Ben
                                        • 17. Re: Menu background loop problem
                                          Level 1
                                          One last try with DVD Architect Pro Trial version.
                                          The same thing ...
                                          I think it's a AC 3 problem, for the loop file is a PCM format.
                                          • 18. Re: Menu background loop problem
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                            Ben333,

                                            Here is another suggestion: Link Here. Look at Neil Wilke's post.

                                            Maybe Neil's comments will help.

                                            Good luck,

                                            Hunt