8 Replies Latest reply on Jan 29, 2003 3:18 PM by (Read_Roberts)

    unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list

      Maybe for the future - MakeOTF should order all unicode glyphs not be
      specified in the adobe glyph list by its unicode values. I have done
      roman numerals and if I use the "insert glyph" dialog from InDesign the
      glyphs are unordered. So I have to do it manually. Think the application
      should order the glyphs - but to avoid any problems it should be done in
      the production. Or is it possible with the current build of MakeOTF?

      Andreas Seidel
        • 1. Re: unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list
          Level 1
          This is an interesting suggestion. It seems as reasonable to order non-AGL glyphs by UV values as anything else. However, I would not want to make this option the default setting, becuase glyphs can usefully be manually ordered in ways that differ from the Unicode value order, when trying to optimize lookups, or group glyphs in other logical orders by semantics. If anyone else expresses interest in this, I will put it on our wish list for MakeOTF. However, since this would require several days work, it is not likely to happen soon.
          • 2. Re: unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list
            Thomas Phinney Level 3
            Also, note that you can control the glyph order for non-AGL glyphs manually by editing the glyph ordering and aliasing file. (Unless you're very sure of yourself, you may want to leave the master version of the file intact, and use a local copy to override the file, for that particular font.)

            T
            • 3. Re: unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list
              Level 1
              "Andreas Seidel" <andreas.seidel@grundsatz.de> wrote in message<br />news:3D2E00E6.3F30@grundsatz.de...<br />> if I use the "insert glyph" dialog from InDesign the<br />> glyphs are unordered. (...) Think the application<br />> should order the glyphs - but to avoid any problems it should be done in<br />> the production.<br /><br />Andreas,<br /><br />glyphs are always ordered. Not necessarily in the order you'd like to have<br />them, agreed. But they are ordered.<br /><br />This is why I think the aplication should not re-order anything. From the<br />application's point of view, it is impossible to determine of a particular<br />order of glyphs in the font was intentional or accidental.<br /><br />Adam
              • 4. Re: unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list
                Level 1
                > Andreas,
                >
                > glyphs are always ordered. Not necessarily in the order you'd like to have
                > them, agreed. But they are ordered.
                >
                Right Adam,

                but most - unicode values have an logical order - it made not sense
                to let an unordered glyph range in a font file. And my suggestion was
                only an option in MakeOTF to order all unicode glyphs (glyphs with an
                unicode value in production state - like roman numerals) what not be
                specified in the adobe glyph list should be ordered like the unicode
                convention. So for example small and big roman numerals be in an
                logical, accessible way to use. I think this would be an very useful
                option for me. But for an single request Read Roberts would not invest
                any time in such a feature. :-)


                Andreas
                • 5. Re: unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list
                  Thomas Phinney Level 3
                  Glyphs that are not specified in the Adobe Glyph list, and are not in the glyph ordering and aliasing file, are ordered in alphabetical order. If you are using Adobe's glyph naming conventions for things like roman numerals, they will have names like "uniXXXX" and will therefore end up in Unicode order.

                  Now, admittedly, some glyphs will have other names, and not end up in their Unicode order, but it does work for a lot of them. And you can always force the ordering.

                  T
                  • 6. Re: unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list
                    Level 1
                    Thomas Phinney wrote:
                    >
                    > Glyphs that are not specified in the Adobe Glyph list, and are not in the glyph ordering and aliasing file, are ordered in alphabetical order. If you are using Adobe's glyph naming conventions for things like roman numerals, they will have names like "uniXXXX" and will therefore end up in Unicode order.


                    I would be luky if this would work like you said Thomas.

                    I have checked it again. If I insert some roman numerals into the font
                    in the following order: II uni2161, III uni2162, I uni2160 the reslut
                    after generating the font files is still the same.
                    • 7. Re: unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list
                      Thomas Phinney Level 3
                      That is odd.

                      Antoine, can you look into this?

                      T
                      • 8. Re: unicode glyph ordering for glyphs not specified in glyph list
                        Level 1
                        Have been reviewing old postings, in preparation for a new release of the FDK in a few weeks. Thomas was incorrect. Glyph names that are in the AGL v 1.2 get put in the font first, in AGL1.2 order. Thenall glyphs covered by the GlyphOrderAndAliasDB file are added, in GOADB order, and then all other glyphs are added, in the order of the source font. To order your glyph names, add them to the GOADB file.