12 Replies Latest reply on Apr 13, 2009 6:16 PM by Adolfo Rozenfeld

    fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!

      I have a serious grain/noise problem in some footage that I can't reshoot and tried to fix in FCP (my usual editing software).

      AE seems to do a fantastic job of cleaning it up...much better than any FCP plug-ins or native filters I've tried.

      If I want to edit in FCP, is the best workflow:

      1. Finish editing in FCP.
      2. Export complete QT file.
      3. Apply grain/noise filter and any color correction in AE.

      Or is there some reason to fix the noise in the raw QT files using AE, and then import them into FCP? (Obviously, this would take a long time, as I have about 10x more footage than I'll use.)

      Thanks!
        • 1. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
          Level 1
          You should be able to send a clip from within the FCP timeline to AE, if AE is set as your default editor in FCP, then you can save time by only fixing those clips that are used, and not have to export them the long way.

          Set AE as your External Editor for Video files under Final Cut Pro menu>System Settings...>External Editors, then select and Ctrl+Click a clip in the timeline of FCP and choose Open in Editor from the context menu. I haven't done this personally, but it should work. I'm not sure if AE needs an "FCP" plugin to support communicating back and forth with FCP, i.e., sending the edits back to FCP via a save or export operation, or something, but FCP can send files to AE this way. Check FCP help for specifics.

          Photoshop CS3 Extended can also edit video, but I hear PS CS4 has much more ability.
          • 2. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
            Level 1
            Philip_Fass@adobeforums.com wrote:
            > I have a serious grain/noise problem in some footage that I can't reshoot and tried to fix in FCP (my usual editing software).
            >
            > AE seems to do a fantastic job of cleaning it up...much better than any FCP plug-ins or native filters I've tried.
            >
            > If I want to edit in FCP, is the best workflow:
            >
            > 1. Finish editing in FCP.
            > 2. Export complete QT file.
            > 3. Apply grain/noise filter and any color correction in AE.
            >
            > Or is there some reason to fix the noise in the raw QT files using AE, and then import them into FCP? (Obviously, this would take a long time, as I have about 10x more footage than I'll use.)
            >
            > Thanks!

            I would think that as long as your exporting a lossless QT format out of
            FCP, that doing your cutting in FCP before shuffling off to AE will not
            give you cause for regret.
            • 3. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
              Level 1
              Thanks. And my instincts tell me that color correction should come before grain correction, with the idea that AE wants to "see" the final colors it's applying the grain filter to.

              The other complication is that some pieces are exposed normally -- we have an intro animated title, some photos, and a few clips shot previously.

              Can I round-trip the grain-corrected footage so I:

              Edit and color correct the bad sections, and export those as lossless QT files of several shots each.
              Fix grain in each QT file with AE.
              Bring fixed files back into FCP, to place among the normally-exposed elements.
              Export final project for delivery.
              • 4. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
                Dan Jacobsen Level 1
                hi.

                the only bad thing about exporting your seq to AE to finish it is if you need to make changes. these obviously can be done easily though, but you'll have to do most of the export importing again.

                if you're 70% sure there aren't changes i'd keep it simple and export the whole seq into AE.

                how long is it? and how many sections do not need to be altered?

                I work on short form, usually less than 1min so i'd just import the entire seq.

                but it's a matter of taste if you export sections or the whole thing to AE.

                I tend to put the whole seq in a comp, then 'split layer' on the edit points where i need to treat things differently. then export the whole thing again and stick it on a new video layer in the editor.

                I'd agree regarding CC first then grain, mainly due to what i like to see when i'm grading. but you can simply swap the CC and grain fx over on the layer and see if there's a difference. i doubt if there is.
                • 5. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
                  Level 1
                  Exporting the whole thing to AE would be easiest, and I could just re-export if the client wants changes. But I should probably test to see what happens to the non-grainy parts when the grain filter's applied.

                  The whole thing is about 5 minutes, and maybe 1.5 minutes of that (in bits and pieces, some with V.O. from the grainy stuff) is correctly exposed. I have opening and closing titles (animated open, scroll against black close), plus some photos and maybe a brief shot or two that we did outside before the doomed shoot.

                  BTW, can you tell me what the white box is in the preview window. I thought it was only to save processing when you preview the effect before rendering, but when I left it alone (covering the middle 3/5ths of the window) and rendererd, the test clip only had the effect in that center area. Hard to imagine that only part of the image would ever be grainy.
                  • 6. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
                    Dan Jacobsen Level 1
                    hi,

                    don't put the grain filter on the non grainy parts, it'll soften it and there's no reason to.

                    just split up your seq into separate layers in AE and only put effects on the layers you need to.

                    white box sounds like the preview area for the grain effect. i know 'grain' has one. probably remove grain too. i haven't used the effect.

                    these effects slow things down so AE defaults to giving you a preview area to test it before you render the full frame.

                    bring up the effect controls and at the top you should see

                    viewing mode: preview

                    change this to final output when you're happy with the level of effect.
                    • 7. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
                      Level 1
                      Do you mean one shot per layer? Because the editing will be done in FCP. I was thinking that it could be like this:

                      1. Opening title (OK) - don't move to AE.
                      2. Shots A and B - (bad) - export sequence as QT from FCP, fix in AE.
                      3. Shot C (OK) - don't move to AE.
                      4. Shot D (bad) - to AE.

                      Etc. So each set of bad clips I have between my good footage is a sequence I export from FCP, fix in AE, and move back to FCP. (Prefer to do most of the work in FCP because I'm an AE novice.)
                      • 8. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
                        Dan Jacobsen Level 1
                        > Do you mean one shot per layer?

                        I didn't mean one shot per layer, i meant one layer for each section that had the same requirements. ie if the first 3 shots are good, they'd be layer 1. then if the next 2 shots needed work and the same grade worked for both, they're layer 2. but if those 2 shots needed different grades, layers 2 and 3.

                        this can give you a lot of layers. using hold kfs instead might be better.

                        what CC are you using in AE? isn't FCP supposed to have a good CC?

                        > Because the editing will be done in FCP. I was thinking that it could be like this:


                        > 1. Opening title (OK) - don't move to AE.
                        2. Shots A and B - (bad) - export sequence as QT from FCP, fix in AE.
                        3. Shot C (OK) - don't move to AE.
                        4. Shot D (bad) - to AE.

                        yes, that sounds good.

                        it just comes down to how many differing sections there are.

                        if there are only 2 sections that need AE as you say above then just export those 2.

                        I was thinking if say the first 3 shots were good, then 2 shots were bad, then 4 good... and this carried on for ages so perhaps you had 20 sections i might consider exporting it as one file to keep things neat.

                        it's really just down to how you want to work.

                        although one advantage of exporting with sections you don't actually have to change, is that you will then have them in AE as a reference for grading.

                        if i am grading i absolutely need to have the surrounding shots in the same system to grade to. i take a snapshot of a good shot, then pull the dodgy one in to match checking it constantly until they're as close as i can get them.

                        also, a thought, be careful of what degrain does. watch it carefully. i haven't used it for ages, but when i did (on an editbox) it just blurred the picture too much for me, i ended up leaving it grainy.

                        good luck.
                        • 9. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
                          Level 1
                          Dan, I tried degraining a small clip in AE, then watched in it QT Player. It looked really good.

                          Ultimate use will be on the web, at 320x240, converted to WMV, and for users with slow/med DSL, so it doesn't have to be great, just acceptable.

                          At first I thought that just scaling it down would make the grain less obvious, but it was still very bad.
                          • 10. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
                            Dan Jacobsen Level 1
                            that's good to know. i'll try it next time i have a grainy shot.
                            • 11. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
                              Treza500

                              I figured it out, now I am trying to get the link to be full size...

                              http://www.cdvinc.com/partners.php#

                              click on Texas Instruments...

                              • 12. Re: fixing dumb, dumb, DUMB mistake!!
                                Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                                Evidently, we're getting posts in this forum that are meant for other forums.