12 Replies Latest reply on Jun 6, 2008 7:12 PM by Joey Morelli

    24p and After Effects...

    (Michael_Martorella) Level 1
      So I'm thinking about buying the hv30 for some awesome progressive 24p video. However, I use FCE4 to edit my projects and thus have run into a problem, as FCE does not support true 24p (only FCP does). I was wondering; could I import raw footage into AE, change it to true 24p and then render it out; followed by bringing the render in to FCE to edit? Or will I run into the same problems regardless?

      I'm quite new to 24p and would love some extra insight as well. I've read a few wikipedia articles on it but I'm still unclear with the 'pulldown' and exactly how it converts to 60i or vice versa.
        • 1. Re: 24p and After Effects...
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant
          Well, I'm not sure which options FCE provides for handling 24p, but getting a clean pulldown in AE would be possible...

          Mylenium
          • 2. Re: 24p and After Effects...
            (Michael_Martorella) Level 1
            I know, but can I then render that in AE and import that render into FCE for edit?
            • 3. Re: 24p and After Effects...
              Jonas Hummelstrand Level 2
              It's been reported that AE's automatic 3:2 pulldown works great with the US version of Canon's HV-20. I have a PAL-version that records clean 25p, so I wouldn't know.

              Render the result as a QuickTime PhotoJPEG at 95%-100% or QuickTime Animation @100%

              - Jonas Hummelstrand
              http://generalspecialist.com/
              • 4. Re: 24p and After Effects...
                (Michael_Martorella) Level 1
                would I then be able to pull those results into FCE4 or will it change it back to an interlaced 30 fps format? (I'm pretty sure FCE will view the quicktime mov as 30fps unless otherwise specified (I'm not entirely sure about that export quality and codec stuff) but will it retain its 24p quality when pulled into FCE, if even possible)
                • 5. Re: 24p and After Effects...
                  Andrew Yoole MVP & Adobe Community Professional
                  Yes, if you do a full conversion of 24p to 30i in AE, there's no reason why FCE won't read the file as such. But note that editing the converted 30i footage in FCE will require true interlaced monitoring to ensure you don't cut on a mixed-field frame, as the FCE/FCP canvas does not display true two-field images.

                  I recommend as often as possible that you are much better off shooting at 30i and down-converting to 24p in software (Magic Bullet, for example), rather than the other way around. Best of both worlds, more control, more temporal information captured.

                  And maybe off topic, but a really great article about the merits of 24p (and other stuff) here:

                  http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_item.php?articleId=196604001
                  • 6. Re: 24p and After Effects...
                    (Michael_Martorella) Level 1
                    If I shoot at 30i will I have the same FCE interlacing problems as 24p after pulldown? And how hard is it to transfer 30i to 24p in AE?
                    • 7. Re: 24p and After Effects...
                      David Wigforss-Hv1BNN Level 2
                      If there's no edits, it's very simple to convert 30i to 24p in AE. If you're trying to convert edited footage, it's a pain in the but, since the pulldown order gets changed. In that instance, I import 5 versions with all possible pulldown methods, and then keyframe opactiy on each layer 0 or 100% (depending on which has clean frames), with HOLD keyframes.
                      • 8. Re: 24p and After Effects...
                        (Michael_Martorella) Level 1
                        So assuming I shot in 30i (BTW is 30i ntsdv? I know that means 30 interlaced but I thought NTSCDV was always 29.97 interlaced.. If not is it available on the hv30?) un-edited. Then I pull it into AE and do the pull down and THEN render to FCE to edit is that a difficult process? and how would I go about doing that..

                        If I have to edit FCE first; If I export each sequence as one clip (they will have been edited) is that still difficult? Another words will I have to watch for duplicates or anything?
                        • 9. Re: 24p and After Effects...
                          A. Cobb Level 3
                          David is using 30i as shorthand for 29.97. 24p isn't even necessarily 24fps on NTSC equipment, but rather probably 23.976.

                          And as I understand it (and I'm open to correction, since I'm not speaking from personal experience), you can't edit 24p in FCE. So removing the pulldown in AE simply won't help you out. You might be able to edit your footage in FCE with the pulldown intact, which will result in mixed-cadence footage, or you can get an editing app that can edit in 24p, but it sounds like what you want to do isn't possible with your present setup.
                          • 10. Re: 24p and After Effects...
                            (Michael_Martorella) Level 1
                            I've explored doing 24p in FCE and your right, I'll end up with some duplicates and it will just convert it to regular interlaced footage. Is there anyway to do the pull down after I edit or will the cuts make it impossible? I have to do my color corrections in AE after my editing in FCE anyway.
                            • 11. Re: 24p and After Effects...
                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                              >Yes, if you do a full conversion of 24p to 30i in AE

                              That's been said a couple of times in this thread, but no one says how.
                              • 12. Re: 24p and After Effects...
                                Joey Morelli Level 1
                                Sounds like time for an upgrade. The upgrade version of FCP (Final Cut Studio 2) requires a valid serial number from a commercial version of Final Cut Studio, Production Suite, or Final Cut Pro 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5. Academic and not-for-resale versions are not eligible for this upgrade.

                                Buy any old version of Final Cut Pro (v.1 through v.5) on ebay for pennies just to get a serial number (non-academic) and get a full Studio 2 Upgrade from Apple for only $499.00 (all apps included!). That's less than half the retail price of $1299.00.