11 Replies Latest reply on Sep 17, 2008 8:06 PM by OsakaWebbie

    Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...

    OsakaWebbie Level 1
      I have owned AE 6.0 Windows (Japanese version, but that's irrelevent) since it first came out years ago, having upgraded to the Video Collection that included it. But although I have relied heavily on all the other software in the collection, AE always sort of intimidated me, and I never had a specific need for it, so I just did everything in Premiere Pro until today, when I decided to launch into the AE world (I have mostly worked with footage rather than animation, but that will change soon). Adobe tech support will no longer talk to me about this old version of the Video Collection, so you are my only resource. (Please don't tell me to upgrade - if I could afford to, I would.)

      For my very simple first task, I thought I would use AE to make a Flash version of a 25-second video I made in PPro. I opened AE, imported the AVI file, created a new composition, and put the video in it. So far, so good (that kind of thing is like PPro anyway.) Hit the space bar - it played, but there was no audio. So I tried just double-clicking on the AVI file in the project window - it popped up a footage window, but not only did I still not hear anything, but the video played at about half speed. The help files give no clues, nor did searching this forum. Can someone help?
        • 1. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
          Level 1
          Karen_Ellrick@adobeforums.com wrote:
          > I have owned AE 6.0 Windows (Japanese version, but that's irrelevent) since it first came out years ago, having upgraded to the Video Collection that included it. But although I have relied heavily on all the other software in the collection, AE always sort of intimidated me, and I never had a specific need for it, so I just did everything in Premiere Pro until today, when I decided to launch into the AE world (I have mostly worked with footage rather than animation, but that will change soon). Adobe tech support will no longer talk to me about this old version of the Video Collection, so you are my only resource. (Please don't tell me to upgrade - if I could afford to, I would.)
          >
          > For my very simple first task, I thought I would use AE to make a Flash version of a 25-second video I made in PPro. I opened AE, imported the AVI file, created a new composition, and put the video in it. So far, so good (that kind of thing is like PPro anyway.) Hit the space bar - it played, but there was no audio. So I tried just double-clicking on the AVI file in the project window - it popped up a footage window, but not only did I still not hear anything, but the video played at about half speed. The help files give no clues, nor did searching this forum. Can someone help?

          Search this forum for "Audio" or "Cannot hear audio" and you will get
          lots of hits. It is one of the more common questions.

          Also, previews of AE timelines are often not at real time unless your
          computer has the processor and ram to support it.
          • 2. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
            David Wigforss-Hv1BNN Level 2
            In short, you need to ram preview everything in order to see video in realtime and hear audio. hit 0 on numpad.
            • 3. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
              OsakaWebbie Level 1
              Raymond: I did searches similar to that before posting, and tried even harder after your comment - I found some mention of rendering composed timelines, but nothing about the inability to hear audio in the footage window, where no rendering is needed (it's just the imported asset). In that window it's clearly not a problem of an underpowered machine, as it's just an AVI file. And even in the timeline, I am doing no editing, so I wouldn't think it would have any trouble previewing in real time. And on top of that, in the timeline it ran at something close to normal speed; it was in the footage window that it ran at half speed (go figure)!

              David: thanks for the more concrete suggestion. The first time that I tried hitting 0 instead of the spacebar, it ran it at normal speed but still no audio (I was confused because it didn't play it all - I learned later that you only get 10 seconds of timeline unless you ask for more). I did it again and it ran extra fast! The third time it ran at normal speed again and played the audio. I guess the learning curve for AE is going to be pretty steep...
              • 4. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
                Level 1
                Karen_Ellrick@adobeforums.com wrote:
                > Raymond: I did searches similar to that before posting, and tried
                > even harder after your comment - I found some mention of rendering
                > composed timelines, but nothing about the inability to hear audio in
                > the footage window, where no rendering is needed (it's just the
                > imported asset). In that window it's clearly not a problem of an
                > underpowered machine, as it's just an AVI file. And even in the
                > timeline, I am doing no editing, so I wouldn't think it would have
                > any trouble previewing in real time. And on top of that, in the
                > timeline it ran at something close to normal speed; it was in the
                > footage window that it ran at half speed (go figure)!

                Sorry, It should have had lots. In fact, there were two on this exact
                thing just yesterday.

                For a start up the learning curve. Dig into the help files to get an
                understanding of Ram Previews.


                > David: thanks for the more concrete suggestion. The first time that I
                > tried hitting 0 instead of the spacebar, it ran it at normal speed
                > but still no audio (I was confused because it didn't play it all - I
                > learned later that you only get 10 seconds of timeline unless you ask
                > for more). I did it again and it ran extra fast! The third time it
                > ran at normal speed again and played the audio. I guess the learning
                > curve for AE is going to be pretty steep...
                • 5. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
                  Mylenium Most Valuable Participant
                  Well, what is the CoDec(s) you are using? If even the RAM preview goes out of whack ,then it must use an odd interleave or channel mapping or is of a variety that your outdated version of AE cannot handle properly to begin with. It not playing sound in the inline AVI-handler window mustn't mean anything. This happens with QT formats and other media as well, if they are handled natively (but incorrectly) by AE and don't use the system-wide components of these media architectures.

                  Mylenium
                  • 6. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
                    OsakaWebbie Level 1
                    > Well, what is the CoDec(s) you are using?
                    Microsoft DV, created by the same generation of PPro that my AE is (PPro 1.0, or Premiere 7.0, depending on what you call it). I suspect they are compatible, because that would have been the intent when they were developed side-by-side and bundled in the same package.

                    It only goes haywire at first after pressing 0 - when it gets done running it once at warp speed, it starts over at normal speed with audio. I can live with that, I suppose.

                    But I discovered that the Flash video format is HUGE, at least what AE is doing to my footage. It's only 25 seconds long, but when I created a comp at 15 f/s, 320x240 pixels, put the video on the timeline, shrunk it to fit the frame, and output as Flash with a JPG quality setting of 5 (medium), the resulting SWF file was 17MB! The same resolution of Real Player file is only 700kB, and I think that was even 30 f/s. Before I realized that AE could export Flash, I downloaded the trial version of an AVI-Flash converter tool, and it similarly made big files like that. I thought I'd use Flash instead of providing several different ways of viewing this video on a website (current location of the video links is http://oicjapan.org/about.html#video, although that will change), but it seems like Flash must be just making a JPG for each frame with no frame-to-frame compression, or something like that. So much for that idea. I'm still going to try to learn AE, for its more typical function of making special effects for videos, but this Flash idea doesn't seem to fly.
                    • 7. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
                      Level 1
                      Karen_Ellrick@adobeforums.com wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, what is the CoDec(s) you are using? Microsoft DV, created by
                      > the same generation of PPro that my AE is (PPro 1.0, or Premiere 7.0,
                      > depending on what you call it). I suspect they are compatible,
                      > because that would have been the intent when they were developed
                      > side-by-side and bundled in the same package.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > It only goes haywire at first after pressing 0 - when it gets done
                      > running it once at warp speed, it starts over at normal speed with
                      > audio. I can live with that, I suppose.
                      >
                      > But I discovered that the Flash video format is HUGE, at least what
                      > AE is doing to my footage. It's only 25 seconds long, but when I
                      > created a comp at 15 f/s, 320x240 pixels, put the video on the
                      > timeline, shrunk it to fit the frame, and output as Flash with a JPG
                      > quality setting of 5 (medium), the resulting SWF file was 17MB! The
                      > same resolution of Real Player file is only 700kB, and I think that
                      > was even 30 f/s. Before I realized that AE could export Flash, I
                      > downloaded the trial version of an AVI-Flash converter tool, and it
                      > similarly made big files like that. I thought I'd use Flash instead
                      > of providing several different ways of viewing this video on a
                      > website (current location of the video links is
                      > , although that will change),
                      > but it seems like Flash must be just making a JPG for each frame with
                      > no frame-to-frame compression, or something like that. So much for
                      > that idea. I'm still going to try to learn AE, for its more typical
                      > function of making special effects for videos, but this Flash idea
                      > doesn't seem to fly.

                      SWF? The Flash Video encodes typically have a FLV extension. So you
                      might want to double check.

                      The size sounds odd also. I do lots of flash video and five minute files
                      of the same basic size and frame rate end up being 12Meg. I usually use
                      the present for 512K
                      • 8. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
                        OsakaWebbie Level 1
                        Flash can be either extension - I looked up the difference once, but I forget at the moment what it was. The tool I tried from the Internet could create either type, but AE 6.0 only has an export option for SWF. I don't mind - either is fine for me. But that size is ridiculous. The tool I got from the Internet was a little better than AE (although it had other bugs), but still too big, and was mysterious in that changing the frame size or frame rate (both of which should dramatically affect the file size) did not significantly change the file size. In all cases, from full frame to postage stamp, the file size was in the range of 2.7 to 3.0 MB.

                        > five minute files of the same basic size and frame rate end up being 12Meg.

                        Actually, that still sounds a little big to me if it's really only 320x240 and 15 f/s. My 25-second video encoded by my old PPro version (so the codecs are probably not as good as nowadays ones) as Real Video, 320x240, 30 f/s with good audio is 700kB. Five minutes of that would be 8.4MB, but that's at 30 f/s, not 15 and on an old codec. Your Flash encoder is clearly better than mine, but it sounds like Flash is still an inherently bulkier format than Real Video. But we are off the thread topic, so we should probably behave ourselves... Meet you again someday on a different thread! :-)
                        • 9. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
                          Level 1
                          Karen_Ellrick@adobeforums.com wrote:
                          > Flash can be either extension - I looked up the difference once, but
                          > I forget at the moment what it was. The tool I tried from the
                          > Internet could create either type, but AE 6.0 only has an export
                          > option for SWF. I don't mind - either is fine for me. But that size
                          > is ridiculous. The tool I got from the Internet was a little better
                          > than AE (although it had other bugs), but still too big, and was
                          > mysterious in that changing the frame size or frame rate (both of
                          > which should dramatically affect the file size) did not significantly
                          > change the file size. In all cases, from full frame to postage stamp,
                          > the file size was in the range of 2.7 to 3.0 MB.

                          Oops, sorry, my fault. Did not notice the AE6. CS3 has the On2 Flash
                          video encoder built in. This is most likely the reason for the different
                          results.

                          If your going to do lots of flash, you can get the Flix encoder from
                          on2.com for $39 or there the Riva encoder for Windows is free.

                          This would leave you a two step process, render out of AE in a good
                          lossless format such as QT animation and then render your flash from that.



                          > five minute files of the same basic size and frame rate end up being
                          > 12Meg.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Actually, that still sounds a little big to me if it's really only
                          > 320x240 and 15 f/s. My 25-second video encoded by my old PPro version
                          > (so the codecs are probably not as good as nowadays ones) as Real
                          > Video, 320x240, 30 f/s with good audio is 700kB. Five minutes of that
                          > would be 8.4MB, but that's at 30 f/s, not 15 and on an old codec.
                          > Your Flash encoder is clearly better than mine, but it sounds like
                          > Flash is still an inherently bulkier format than Real Video. But we
                          > are off the thread topic, so we should probably behave ourselves...
                          > Meet you again someday on a different thread! :-)
                          • 10. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
                            Mylenium Most Valuable Participant
                            I concur with Raymond. Looking for an external encoder would be smart. when you output an SWF directly from AE, it basically embeds a JPG sequence into the file, which explains the humungous file sizes. Apart from that - why not consider upgrading to CS4 when it will be released soon? You get all the tools and additional options for export and can deal with most of your problems from within one tool or a set of tools that co-operate and don't need to spend money on a bunch of extra tools...

                            Mylenium
                            • 11. Re: Newbie tries simply to import an AVI...
                              OsakaWebbie Level 1
                              > Apart from that - why not consider upgrading to CS4 when it will be released soon? You get all the tools and additional options for export and can deal with most of your problems from within one tool or a set of tools that co-operate...

                              For years I haven't upgraded due to the sticker shock of upgrading to one of the "packages", like Production Premium or something. The Video Collection isn't considered a package for purposes of upgrading, so it becomes an upgrade from a single product to a package, which is very pricey (especially the Japanese version). But after reading your comment, I did a little more research, and it seems that upgrading each product separately isn't too bad, especially since it seems that Encore is bundled with PPro these days (so it would be PPro, Audition, and AE). So I have two questions about your comment:
                              ](1) When you talk of "all the tools", is that stuff that's within AE, or are you thinking of the various bundled extras that one gets when buying a bundle package like Production Premium?

                              ](2) Do you know anything about what is different (especially in PPro and AE) between CS3 and CS4? It looks veiled in secrecy until that webcast, and I know you think I should just wait and buy CS4, but I'm just now starting a really big video project, so if I was going to upgrade, now would be a good time. The Japanese CS4 probably won't come out for several more months, so I'm considering just doing CS3. But if you think that CS4 will have significantly better tools...

                              I signed up for the webcast, but it's next Wednesday, and I don't even know whether their flashy presentation will spell out the nuts and bolts differences, or just try to impress us, if you know what I mean. ;-)