9 Replies Latest reply on Oct 9, 2008 11:23 AM by XxMontyxX

    AE + PR = Flame

    XxMontyxX Level 1
      Just passing this along. Stu Maschwitz thinks it would be a great idea to combine Premier and After Effects into one, and with enough hardware, you would basically have a Flame. Minus the node based stuff, I strongly agree!!

      Check it out:
        • 1. Re: AE + PR = Flame
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant
          Whoa. And I strongly half-disagree. ;-) Anyway, I've discussed this elsewhere enough already, so I'll refrain from making further comments. Let's just say, while Stu's comments are insightful and authorative for one kind of users, they have limited value for others...

          • 2. Re: AE + PR = Flame
            XxMontyxX Level 1
            In what regard? Real-Time playback and Timecode support would be highly useful to anyone who works with video, which is everyone who uses After Effects.
            • 3. Re: AE + PR = Flame
              Mylenium Most Valuable Participant
              >which is everyone who uses After Effects

              Ah, snatch, there you go. No, no and no. You know, a lot of my projects don't feature a single piece of "real" footage, as they are merely pattern generators or infographics/ datagraphics heavily rigged with expressions. Likewise, you can find infinite numbers of users who only prepare web banners or other animation, use AE's toolset on stills or use AE's render queue for footage conversion. All of that is nowhere near dependent on any interactive editing features and in many cases realtime (spacebar) playback is already possible. Merging these workflows with Premiere therefore is absolutely not necessary nor would it add any substantial user value. So there you go. As I have written elsewhere - it all depends on which side of the fence you are.

              • 4. Re: AE + PR = Flame
                XxMontyxX Level 1
                Do you use Mocha to create web banners or pie charts? Well, then why did Adobe add it? According to you, Mylenium, it is absolutely not necessary and doesn't add substantial user value. Mocha is going to be a very powerful tool for AE users. So would the suggested features.
                • 5. Re: AE + PR = Flame
                  Mylenium Most Valuable Participant
                  Nobody is denying that adding certain features will not benefit certain users, but I would caution everyone to not make generalized assumptions about "plug it together and it will be great". The point here really is could this a) be made to work for everyone even if he does not need the editing features, b) made, so it does not break existing workflows and c)provides a stable platform for future development.

                  You know, not to put too fine a point on it, but Stu's post exactly describes what I call the "big VFX facility" or "Hollywood" approach to doing things and that's just a very small part of the whole spectrum. There is any number of alternate workflows, part of which I have already described.

                  And let's not forget: If and when such an "über-app" came into being, it would still have to fit between a lot of other apps. The inherent danger in making this even more tightly bound in the world of Adobe, is always to close it up even more for those external apps and then all claims of "improved integration" have no value for anyone operating outside the alleged combo of Adobe programs. You could easily end up with import and export procedures that make today's clunky handling of transcodes in Premiere or some limitations of AE's render queue pale in comparison. Doesn't do you any good if you can do the nicest stuff in the app, but sending stuff to Encore is still as hairy, does it not? Conversely, you could easily conjure up examples where other big companies also beginning with "A" have integrated across their own apps at the cost of leaving a mess to anyone outside the loop...

                  In any case: You can twist an turn this in too many ways and everyone has his own views. I just once more would beg to differentiate a bit more subtly. Stu may have spoken out what many of us may have thought, anyway, but I would not blindly accept his views, no matter how knowledgeable, rational and well formed they are presented. I'm sure if someone who has been lobbying to integrate Flash and AE for years took the time to write a similar post, the whole discussion would start over again, but from a different perspective...

                  • 6. Re: AE + PR = Flame
                    XxMontyxX Level 1
                    It's true that new Features can sometimes break old ones. I've been effected by this many times on Discreet and Quantel systems. It's still in the name of progress, and the new tools are quickly embraced while the old ones are quickly (sic) forgotten/repressed from memory.

                    I would not blindly accept anyone's views, including yours :), obviously. However, Stu has written a well thought out argument to the progression of After Effects and what it's users need. He's familiar with the big-boy-boxes as well as the desktop offerings and has come to this "Hollywood" conclusion.

                    I for one cringe every time a client says, "Let's just Flame it out of there". Someday soon me thinks that phrase will no longer apply. Until Adobe implements these new features, it will remain true.

                    I second Stu's argument and think many other users would agree.
                    • 7. Re: AE + PR = Flame
                      bogiesan-gyyClL Level 3
                      I don't care bear whiz about these new features. I just want everything that's broken or buggy fixed. I want faster render times and I want rock hard stability.

                      Get those fixed, THEN start adding new features and capabilities that appeal to niche users.

                      • 8. Re: AE + PR = Flame
                        Joey Morelli Level 1
                        AE + Premiere = Flame. I really hope that doesn't happen...at least keep a stand-alone AE Pro version. My toolbox does not include Premiere and it will not. AE, Cinema 4D Studio along with Final Cut Studio 2, Photoshop & Illustrator (and some selectively awesome Red Giant plug-ins) is all I need to create whatever my little pea brain can come up with. My workflow between AE & FCP has gotten quite fast and efficient. Combine AE Pro & FCP and you may have something pretty sweet ;)

                        BTW...IMHO, Mocha (planar tracker) beats the tar out of AE's point tracker so for those of us that use it, that alone is a huge upgrade.

                        • 9. Re: AE + PR = Flame
                          XxMontyxX Level 1
                          Mocha has to be used to be believed. It's just a really elegant tracker.