31 Replies Latest reply on Sep 19, 2008 11:47 AM by gorillaradio

    Wrong color profile

      I have some sRGB CR2 image. Converted with Adobe DNG Converted change color profile to Adobe RGB, so all color are wrong.
      DNG= great ball of ****?
        • 1. Re: Wrong color profile
          Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
          >have some sRGB CR2 image

          That it utter nonsense. A ".CR2" file is a RAW image file generated by a Canon camera. Raw files DO NOT have a color profile at all. What you set in your camera is utterly irrelevant; it applies only to images stored as JPEGs or TIFFs.

          You are the one who determines what color space a converted raw file will have at the time of the demosaicing (conversion).

          Maybe that ball is inside your head.
          • 2. Re: Wrong color profile
            Level 1
            Ia have a cr2 file from EOS 400D. If i open it from Adobe Camera RAW, ACRAW tell me that the file have sRGB color profile. If i export to jpg i have:
            http://www.sellitto.it/dng/303_.jpg

            Now i convert it with Adobe DNG Converter to DNG. If i open the DNG with ACRAW tell me that the color profile is Adobe RGB. Now export to jpg and i have:

            http://www.sellitto.it/dng/303.jpg
            • 3. Re: Wrong color profile
              Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
              > If i open it from Adobe Camera RAW, ACRAW tell me that the file have sRGB color profile.

              No! It does not. It's telling you that YOU have set Adobe Camera Raw to CONVERT your file to the sRGB color space when you click on open. Yoy can set that setting to whatever you want, like sRGB, Adobe RGB, ProPhoto RGB, etc. Just click on the output options under the preview in the ACR window.

              You have to learn how to use Adobe Camera Raw, Gianlugi. YOU are the one who is messing up your file. Raw files and DNG files do not have an embedded color space at all. You are the one doing a wrting conversion somewhere, most likely by "assigning" a color profile instead of CONVERTING.
              • 4. Re: Wrong color profile
                Level 1
                Do you not understand me. The same color difference that you can see in converted jpg is visible between originale CR2 file and converted DNG file, converted with the last versione of Adobe DNG Converter. Now because Adobe Camera RAW tell me the the only difference in file are color profile, i have guessed that color difference is in that. If i am wrong, why there is this color difference? DNG=****? I do not mess eny file, my step are:
                take a picture with Canon EOS 400D in CR2 format;
                transfer file on my pc (with windows vista sp1);
                open Adobe DNG Converter and convert CR2 file to DNG;
                compare CR2 and DNG file: color difference is here!

                So what i mess?
                • 5. Re: Wrong color profile
                  Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                  Gianlugi,

                  You are the one who does NOT understand.

                  ACR is NOT telling you anything about a color profile in either a cr2 raw file or a DNG raw file because there is no color profile in either a cr2 RAW file or in a DNG raw file.

                  You were the one that somehow assigned the profiles to your JPEGs converted from the raw files. I have no idea how you did that; I am not a mind reader or a clairvoyant.

                  Nessuna merda.

                  When you open the CR2 in ACR, choose the output color profile THERE. Click on where it shows the color profile right under the preview in the ACR window. That will bring up the output options window.

                  When you open the DNG in ACR, choose the same profile there.

                  Then tell us what your color settings are in Photoshop.

                  Your problem has absolutely NOTHING to do with the DNG converter. It is a color management user error in Photoshop. Are you on a Macintosh or a Windows box? You should post in the Photoshop forum for your platform, Mac or Windows. DNG does NOT mess with color profiles. Those are irrelevant in the case of both CR2 files and DNG files, which are RAW files.

                  Drop the attitude. As I said above, nessuna merda.

                  PEBKAC = Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.
                  • 6. Re: Wrong color profile
                    Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                    You don't know enough about color management to understand this, but what you have is indeed a color management issue, regardless of how you managed to assign different profiles to your two JPEG images. If you had tagged the images, i.e. if you had embedded a correct color profile in each of those images, the sRGB image and the Adobe RGB image would look EXACTLY the same when viewed in Photoshop, or Bridge, or in Safari, on an accurately calibrated and profiled monitor. Safari is the ONLY color-managed web browser currently in use (Firefox 3 will soon be when released as gold master).

                    But if the images are untagged, which means they have no embedded color profile, then they will indeed look like crap or at least very different from each other.

                    And, trust me, DNG Converter has absolutely NOTHING to do with your problem. Nothing. Niente.

                    You need to post in the correct forum.
                    • 7. Re: Wrong color profile
                      Level 1
                      Sorry but the problem is DNG Converter. If i open the image with FastStone MaxView the result image is ok.
                      • 8. Re: Wrong color profile
                        Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                        I give up on you, Gianluigi. You're hopeless.

                        The two images you posted are IDENTICAL when properly tagged and viewed in a color-managed web browser on an accurately calibrated and profiled monitor.

                        You don't know what you are doing, that's all.

                        Try what I told you earlier:

                        When you open the CR2 in ACR, choose the output color profile THERE. Click on where it shows the color profile right under the preview in the ACR window. That will bring up the output options window.

                        When you open the DNG in ACR, choose the same profile there.


                        If you don't want to learn, that is fine with me. I am not the one with the problem. You are.
                        • 9. Re: Wrong color profile
                          Level 1
                          Stop answer to me great idiot. Until now i talk to you with respect. I somthing do not like you simply do not answer. Do you understand me great idiot?
                          So to be clear: Ramón G Castañeda is a GREAT IDIOT.
                          If you want an idiot call Ramón G Castañeda or email him at [deleted by forum host]

                          So great idiot do you understand that if DNG stand for Digital Negative, if i have a CR2 with correct color, when i convert to DNG i want to have the same correct color. If i must some postprocessing where is the pros of DNG?
                          Ok great idiot?
                          • 10. Re: Wrong color profile
                            Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                            Once again, the DNG Converter is NOT changing the colors.

                            The idiot is the one who does not want to learn to do things right and uses your kind of language.

                            What gives you the right to post somebody else's email address publicly?
                            • 11. Re: Wrong color profile
                              Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                              [inappropriate language deleted]
                              • 12. Re: Wrong color profile
                                Bert-Bert Level 1
                                You tell 'im, Ramón!
                                • 13. Re: Wrong color profile
                                  Level 1
                                  So in summary:
                                  - if i shot in CR2, i can view the image on PC as i can see on
                                  camera, to do so i need proprietary software.
                                  - if i convert to DNG, i lose some image carateristic (like camera
                                  profile), so to display correctly the image i need some
                                  postprocessing.

                                  Now where is the advantage of DNG?
                                  • 14. Re: Wrong color profile
                                    Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                    My short summary:

                                    1. Gianlugi started this post with an incorrect claim and a rude and juvenile post.

                                    2. Most readers (including myself) decided that based on the tone off the initial post, it would be a waste of time to respond.

                                    3. Ramon in his usual fairly rude way, actually did attempt to help to figure out what Gianlugi was doing wrong.

                                    4. Gianlugi refused to listen to the attempted help, and continued to post rude responses, demonstrating the correctness of the readers in item 2.
                                    • 15. Re: Wrong color profile
                                      Level 1
                                      Thank you, Thomas Knoll for your answer. But your item 2 was wrong. I do not nothing wrong. If i convert a CR2 photo to DNG, the DNG color are different from CR2 file. And this is a fact. Can you tell me that is wrong? To recover original color i need some postprocessing rigth? Now the last question were is the usefulness of DNG? Did you must tell that DNG is usefull because this is an ADOBE forum?

                                      Thank you.
                                      • 16. Re: Wrong color profile
                                        Bert-Bert Level 1
                                        >But your item 2 was wrong.

                                        Was not.
                                        • 17. Re: Wrong color profile
                                          Level 1
                                          Prove it.
                                          • 18. Re: Wrong color profile
                                            JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                                            Gianluigi,

                                            Let's stop all this silly bickering, and see if we can straighten this out. I'm not an expert, but something in your observations is not clear. First of all, raw images will not be opened in ACR with an assigned color profile. Your camera might allow you to choose one, but it does not affect raw images. The raw image means just that, it is the "raw" image data, and none of your in-camera settings will have any impact other than ISO and, in many cases, the white balance. Everything else that you can set in your camera will be ignored by ACR. This is true regardless of whether you are using the original raw image or a converted DNG file, because the image data is precisely the same in either file.

                                            YOU are the one who chooses the color space you want to use in ACR. ACR does not change any color space in the image because it doesn't read that setting. It is your responsibility to set the color space in ACR. Then, you also have to manage your color policies in Photoshop. Photoshop is a color managed software application that requires you to be aware of what you are doing in that regard. For instance, if you decide to set ACR to Adobe RGB, and then set Photoshop work in the same color space, then you need to remember to convert the profiles of the images to sRGB if you are going to post them on a website, if you want the colors to look right. This is only one example of many that you need to consider when working with Photoshop/ACR. I'm sorry, but that is as simple of an answer as I know how to give.
                                            • 19. Re: Wrong color profile
                                              Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                              Gianluigi:

                                              Please explain in complete detail exactly what you are doing. Include OS versions, Photoshop versions, Camera Raw versions, DNG Converter versions. Are multiple computers involved? How are you saving the JPEG files? What are the workflow settings at the bottom of the Camera Raw dialog?
                                              • 20. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                Level 1
                                                Dear Thomas, do not consider the first post that was effectively wrong.
                                                So on Windows Vista sp1:
                                                - take a CR2 file with Canon DPP or with Explorer i can see color like on my camera display.
                                                - convert CR2 file to DNG with the latest version of Adobe DNG Converter for windows.
                                                - in Explorer (DNG codec for Vista) and in ACR color are different;
                                                - to match color i need to processing image.

                                                This was/is little strange for me.

                                                Hi.
                                                • 21. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                  Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                                  OK. This is a COMPLETELY different issue than what you reported at first.

                                                  You complaint has nothing whatsoever to do with DNG.

                                                  You are complaining that Camera Raw's (Adobe's) color rendering does not match DPP's (Canon's) color rendering. This is because they use different raw processing algorithms and different camera profiles. Exactly the same thing would be true if you opened the CR2 file directly in Camera Raw. The whole issue of DNG is a red herring.

                                                  There are many threads on this topic in the Camera Raw forum. The DNG forum is to wrong place talk about this issue, since this issue has nothing to do with DNG format.
                                                  • 22. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                    A few simple tests on your end may help you better understand:

                                                    1. Capture the same image (same camera settings in RAW and JPEG)
                                                    2. Open these images in Canon DPP - they will be a close match, this is because Canon DPP and the Canon camera itself use similar RAW processing algorithms
                                                    3. Open convert the CR2 to DNG, and open the CR2, DNG, and JPEG in Adobe Camera RAW - the CR2 and DNG should be a very close (if not identical) match if you use the same processing settings for each, since they are both being processed by ACR's algorithms; the JPEG will probably not match as it was processed with Canon's algorithms

                                                    What you are seeing is at the HEART of raw processing, and has nothing to do with color spaces or with DNG being at fault. The very nature of RAW processing means every processor (DPP, ACR, CaptureOne, etc) will produce different results by default - that's not to say that with some adjustments you can't match one processor's results to another, but it won't be the case by default.

                                                    The choice of RAW processor has FAR more an impact on your results than color space - in fact color space should have virtually no visual impact, though depending on the scene photographed you might have better gradations in some color spaces, better handling of highly saturated colors in some, but the overall look should remain close regardless of color space choice.

                                                    Further, as has been pointed out by others, raw files (which includes CR2 and DNG) do not have a color space - raw files are by definition raw image data which has yet to be processed into a color space. When you see color space assignments in RAW processors, that is relevant to the files you create FROM the raw files, not relevant to the raws themselves.

                                                    Before bringing inflammatory language and false assumptions to a forum with a high level of expert membership you might want to research the issue, and devise some simple tests (like above) to help you understand the issue first.
                                                    • 23. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                      Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                                      We are all wasting our time here. Gianluigi refuses to learn, cannot adequately express himself, does not understand English well enough to communicate and is not interested in solving anything.
                                                      • 24. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                        Level 1
                                                        Thank you Thomas and Roger.
                                                        • 25. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                          Ok I'm not sure where else to post right now. But heres a problem i'm having and i hope someone can help. I shoot everything raw. I then import it into CS3's raw editor. Everything looks great Profile set is adobe rgb 1998. I then goto further edit the photograph in CS3 and it looks different. Is there any way to match everything up? How do I change the profiles to be uniform?

                                                          I have my monitor calibrated by a huey.
                                                          • 26. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                            MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                                                            Sounds like a corrupted monitor profile. Try rebuilding it.
                                                            • 27. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                              AndrettaGiuseppe-JNsy6p
                                                              Gianluigi

                                                              Next time you have so simple questions about color management you can post them on this italian group (http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/colore_digitale) where you can subscribe for free and explain better your problems using your own language.

                                                              In that group you can get help if you're not rude and sign your messages. Anyway if the vulgar language you used here is your style, you can limit it, at least, in your country avoiding this 'international embarassment'.

                                                              Ciao

                                                              Giuseppe Andretta
                                                              • 28. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                                Level 1
                                                                No thanks. I prefer open forums like this.
                                                                Please think at your own style first.
                                                                • 29. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                                  AndrettaGiuseppe-JNsy6p Level 1
                                                                  I don't believe you! Why do you choose an open forum and pretend - at the same time - to be helped just from 'selected people'? Tell us if you prefer suggestions only from Thomas Knoll and Roger Howard so the others can ignore your posts.

                                                                  Gianluigi in an open forum  simply 'everyone' is free to waste time on you and you'll never be able to 'stop anyone answering you', so don't even ask!

                                                                  Sorry if you didn't appreciate my style even if I thought a lot about my 'hot blood italian way' before posting and...it's quite different from yours

                                                                  C'mon now Gianluigi, feel free to answer me in order to continue your own show.

                                                                  Giuseppe
                                                                  • 30. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                                    (Michael_Gross)
                                                                    OMG is this what professional digital photography has come to!
                                                                    • 31. Re: Wrong color profile
                                                                      gorillaradio
                                                                      Hi all. Gianluigi your softwares have different default profiles (color spaces) to be applied for DNGs and CR2s maybe. Raw files (either DNGs or CR2s) don't have profiles applied.

                                                                      Credo che i tuoi software abbiano differenti impostazioni di default per differenti tipi di file. I file raw non hanno dentro profili. Sono i software di conversione che alla fine di questa applicano un profilo. Rivedi le impostazioni di default di colore sia di Camera Raw che di Photoshop. Ciao.