8 Replies Latest reply on Dec 16, 2008 12:05 PM by hening

    Profile Embedding

    hening Level 1
      How do I embed a profile?

      In my PE Recipes, I have chosen "Never embedd", because I am in the state of trying out and fiddling around.

      Now, I want to embed profiles in their appropriate images, on a per-image basis. It turns out that I can not change the Embedding options to Embed If Used any more, and then save a new profile with this option. The options other than the originally chosen Never Embed are grayed out.

      I have also tried to open a blank Recipe, then load the ColorChecker image on which the profile was created, then choose the original Base Profile (4.4), and enter the color settings manually. But the Color Tables pane is blank. I thought the meaning with saving a Recipe was to be able to work on a profile later?

      Thank you for your input.
        • 1. Re: Profile Embedding
          Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
          Self edited. Misread "PE" as Photoshop Elements. Sorry.
          • 2. Re: Profile Embedding
            MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
            Hening, the Embedding options available in the DNG Profile Editor depend on your choice of base profile. They will always be at least as restrictive as the base profile. Since your base profile was designated as "Never embed", any profile based on it will also be "Never embed" (at least, when created from the DNG PE), since this is the most restrictive option.

            You need the recipe that was used to create your profile. What you've done instead is opened a blank recipe and then chosen your profile as a base profile. That is not the same thing. A base profile already has color edits "baked in." It's like the difference between parametric edits and pixel-based edits.

            Hopefully you have the recipe (.dcpr) file that you used when building your original profile.
            • 3. Re: Profile Embedding
              hening Level 1
              Hi Eric

              thank you for a very fast reply!

              Yes I have the recipes that were used to create the profiles. If I open one of them via the PE > File > Open Recipe command, the color patches in the scroll window are present, and I can change them. But the embedding options are restricted.

              I can change the Base Profile to be the original one, then more embedding options are available. However: the colors in the CC image, which I open simultaneously, now are the colors of the chosen Base Profile (e.g. 3.3, embedded by DxO) - but the displayed HSL numbers do not change accordingly, that is they remain those of *my* profile.

              So I cleared all adjustments via the Edit menu, planning to re-enter them manually and re-save the recipe with new embed options. But the clearing cleared the color patches from the scroll window as well, I can not enter any values, so the situation is the same as after opening a blank recipe.

              ???
              • 4. Re: Profile Embedding
                MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                Hening, for your recipes used to create the profiles (mentioned near the top of your post), what is the base profile?
                • 5. Re: Profile Embedding
                  hening Level 1
                  Hi Eric!

                  I'm not sure. I wrote above, that it was 3.3, embedded by DxO, because:
                  When I open the DxO-output CC image in ACR, the Camera Profile menu reads "Embedded". When I flip through the other profiles, 3.3 is the one where the histogram does not change.

                  But now, I am not sure that this means that this profile was automatically chosen as the Base Profile when I edited the profile in PE. It may be that I chose a previous own (non-DxO)-profile as the base profile.

                  Now it seems, regardless what I do, I can neither edit the Embed option in the existing recipe/profile, nor create a new one, based on the same CC image, not even from scratch.

                  This whole thing is utterly confusing.

                  I'll give you a log of what I try to do, and what happens, with the DxO DNG as example (because this is the most important one for me right now).

                  Launch PE. It opens with an Untitled recipe, Base Profile: None; Options: all Embed options available.

                  Open Recipe. The one that created the DxO Profile. The color patches are in place and editable. The Base Profile reads
                  "Nikon D200.0836.DxO_DNG (Nikon D200)"
                  This name does not exist in any Finder folder any more, since I have later dropped the 0836. - The only other Base Profile menu choice is "Choose external profile...".

                  Now I open the corresponding CC DNG image, named "NEF0836_DxO.dng". (This is a CC NEF processed through DxO with my presets) Embedding is now "Never Embed", others grayed out. - Now there are many items in the Base Profile menu. The one selected, on top, is the same as above. Then there is "Embedded (Nikon D200)", then ACR 4.4 and 3.3, and then all the other home-made profiles, including the selected one under its current name, "Nikon D 200 DxO_DNG (Nikon D200)". - The image looks as exspected, that is reflects the profile.

                  Now I try out what I might do to end up with a profile that I can embed.

                  I think: I can go back to the base profile, then manually re-enter the HSL values that I have established for my DxO-DNGs, then save the recipe with a new embed option and export a profile with this option.

                  I choose 3.3 as the base profile (because I believe that this is what DxO has embedded). - The top 3 items of the Embed menu are available. - The colors in the CC image change - but the HSL values do not! (as checked for patch 8, for which my edit made a significant hue shift). So the values, which I had planned to re-enter manually, are already in place! But the colors are "wrong", i.e. they reflect the base profile, not the edited profile.

                  So if I would save the recipe at this state, and export a profile, what would it reflect: the color patches or the HSL values?

                  I think: To get around this question and any already embedded profile, I have to start all from scratch with a blank profile. After all, I have all the HSL values ready, I only need to enter them.

                  Quit and re-launch PE. Hm, there are no color patches in the pane, and the HSL fields can not be edited. So a (CC) DNG image must be open. So I need to make a new DNG from raw, a DNG which does not have any of my profiles (with their Embed restrictions) embedded.

                  So I make a new DxO-DNG from raw, call it NEF0836_DxOe.dng

                  I open it in ACR, and like I remembered, the embedded profile seems to be 3.3

                  Launch PE, open the image... no color patches in the pane, HSL sliders/fields inaccessible! ?? (Regardless which base profile I choose, Embedded or 3.3, or 4.4 for that sake). - (Top 3 Embed options available)

                  ??? Now I really don't know what to do any more... :-(
                  • 6. Re: Profile Embedding
                    MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                    The problem seems to be your choice of base profile. Your first selection of base profile = "Nikon D200.0836.DxO_DNG (Nikon D200)" most likely has its embed option = Never Embed and this is what is causing the restrictions.

                    Yes, a DNG file must be open to make edits. Otherwise there are no colors to select. Also there would be no notion of which camera the profile is for.
                    • 7. Re: Profile Embedding
                      hening Level 1
                      > The problem seems to be your choice of base profile. Your first selection of base profile = "Nikon D200.0836.DxO_DNG (Nikon D200)" most likely has its embed option = Never Embed and this is what is causing the restrictions.

                      Yes, but what can I do? Can i never create a profile that I can embed because I chose this option for the first one?
                      Because...

                      >Yes, a DNG file must be open to make edits.

                      Well, as should appear from the last paragraph of my last post, edits can not be made EVEN WITH a DNG image open! What am I to do??
                      • 8. Re: Profile Embedding
                        hening Level 1
                        In case this happens to you: Re-install the Profile Editor and make new profiles.