1 2 3 Previous Next 83 Replies Latest reply on May 31, 2009 4:53 AM by sandy_mc

    Request for PhotoCD support

    (Andrew_Rodney) Level 1
      Now that Kodak apparently isn't going to update the PCD acquire module for Intel Macs, I wanted to put in a request that the next rev of DNG convert the PhotoYCC image pack into DNG. I think this is possible after a conversation with Thomas awhile back. Even if I can only get to the high rez Base16 image pack, that would be better than having to run CS3 under Rosetta.

      It would be pretty slick to use Lightroom or CR as a new acquire module too.
        • 1. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
          ehuelga
          Ditto what Andrew said. Thanks for bringing it up.
          • 2. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
            PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional
            Yes, DNG to the rescue of another obsolete format!
            • 3. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
              I would really like a tool that would convert PhotoCD format to something with a long-term future.
              • 4. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                What's wrong with using Photoshop precisely for that purpose?
                • 5. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                  Level 1
                  On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:16:37 -0700, Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com
                  wrote:

                  >What's wrong with using Photoshop precisely for that purpose?

                  With CS3 the PhotoCD-DLL is well hidden, and from what I've read here,
                  there's nothing provided for the Mac version of PSCS3.

                  Another problem is high numbers of PCD-files; I have only 300 but even
                  converting them will take quite a time.



                  --
                  Dierk
                  [DH² Publishing]
                  www.DH2Publishing.info
                  Writing and Imaging
                  • 6. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                    ArrrBee Level 1
                    I can't speak for the Mac end, but no matter what you use it will take time
                    convert the files. Just setup a batch and come the next day.

                    Robert
                    • 7. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                      Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                      >there's nothing provided for the Mac version of PSCS3.

                      False.
                      • 8. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                        Level 1
                        On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:42:45 -0700, Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com
                        wrote:

                        >False.

                        Anything more?

                        You know, I do not have an Apple computer [and save me from ever
                        getting one near my office], so I have to count on the knowledgeable
                        here. Some time back, for instance, Jeff Schewe wrote Photo CD isn't
                        supported in CS3 at all; luckily I could give an all-clear for the
                        Windows side.

                        The DLL is on the second disc of the Design Premium installation:
                        x:\Goodies\Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended\Optional Plug-Ins\Kodak
                        PhotoCD; where 'x' stands for the DVD drive. Other CS3 installations
                        will follow the same directory pattern.

                        Any helpful information for poor Mac-users?



                        --
                        Dierk
                        [DH² Publishing]
                        www.DH2Publishing.info
                        Writing and Imaging
                        • 9. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                          (Andrew_Rodney) Level 1
                          The facts are, CS3 does support PCD using the Acquire module supplied but NOT on Intel Mac's unless you boot Photoshop under Rosetta. The issue is the plug-in isn't nor will it be updated for MacIntel. So, you can slow down Photoshop by launching it under Rosetta (get info, check the Launch in Rosetta option). This will greatly slow down PS but at least you can get to the Image packs.... For now.....
                          • 10. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                            All of the above begs the ongoing proplem of propriatary image formats. Oh for the days of FILM!!!! for the archive storage medium.
                            I mean if we had to pay royalties every time we made a print in a wet darkroom, photography would really be expensive and we see this cost with the present technology of haveing to buy more and more software to see images that WE make. It is hard enough to convince a client that image prices based on usage, size, distribution, is the fair way to charge clients.
                            Don't get me wrong, the new technology sure does solve a lot of "problems" what would have cost a small fortune to do the "wet" way.
                            I could go on, but I don't think this is the forum.
                            Have fun, and make pictures,
                            Yours,
                            Tom
                            • 11. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                              ArrrBee Level 1
                              Actually one doesn't have to keep buying more and more software to view,
                              edit and use the images we make. Once just needs to choose open standard
                              formats. TIFF, JPG, DNG, etc. TIFF and JPG are easy just about every program
                              that uses an image for whatever purpose will use them. DNG even if your
                              camera doesn't shoot in DNG the DNG Converter from Adobe is free and is
                              updated with every new release of ACR. So converting the propritary formats
                              that camera companies like to use is not an issue and doesn't cost any
                              money. Once that is done using DNG file is just as easy and nearly as an
                              available option as TIFF and JPG.

                              The problem the OP has is that he/she decided to trust Kodak and once again
                              Kodak has shown their true colors and have proven that one can not only not
                              trust them, but can't trust their product and formats. Stick to open formats
                              and all is well.

                              PhotoCD is dead and has been for at least 5 years. I see no reason of any
                              kind for Adobe to waste valuable time and money or supporting a format that
                              is dead. Instead the OP needs to stop complaining and convert his PhotoCD
                              images to a format like TIF before he losses the ability to do so.

                              Robert
                              • 12. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                (Andrew_Rodney) Level 1
                                Its only dead if you don't have any of them archived.

                                Don't worry, Adobe isn't going to update the acquire module, nor should they. You can blame Kodak but they don't have a pot to piss in.

                                Converting them to TIFF isn't a solution, we're dealing with an image pack. This is very much the Raw file of the 1990s. Ideally it could be converted as such into DNG. Converting to TIFF kills the capabilities of the format. It is a solution for some who would be happy finding out they can't render their Raws and can only work with a single JPEG. Its not the worst thing in the world, I still have the film but the scans are actually more useful and for me valuable. It would also do a heck of a lot of good in promoting the DNG movement.

                                BTW, it would cost Adobe almost nothing. There's one guy who writes this stuff, I just need to corner him and see if he'd do it.
                                • 13. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                  ArrrBee Level 1
                                  No dead as in Kodak doesn't use it any more. Dead as in Kodak ended support
                                  for it. Dead as in it was dead from the start because while being a good
                                  format was kept closed and available in a very limited number of ways
                                  (user's couldn't save their own files to PhotoCD format, etc.). Dead as in
                                  Adobe doesn't support it. Dead as in more and more programs won't support
                                  it. Dead as in the next couple of years you won't be able to open them to
                                  convert them to TIFF or something else because the software that lets you do
                                  that won't work on modern computers and OSes and the plug-ins needed won't
                                  be supported (no updates) in the newer versions of software. Dead as in
                                  keeping a computer around just to deal with them is stupid. Convert to TIFF
                                  and move on.

                                  Robert
                                  • 14. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                    (Andrew_Rodney) Level 1
                                    Actually users could. At one point, you could hook up a PIW to a Mac. I had such a beast.

                                    I agree, its dead but I'd like to see DNG support if possible., it also illustrates the dangers of proprietary formats when our data is concerned. I'd be far more upset if this were Raw original captures, not scans.

                                    When you had a unit that could scan a 3K file in three seconds, and do that fully automated, you found a way to archive a LOT of originals. At one point, ADI in Colorado had 12 PIW's running 24/7.
                                    • 15. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                      Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                      Robert Barnett,

                                      Do you have any clue as to who the OP is, the person you've been exchanging messages with?

                                      Maybe you confuse him with Rodney Dangerfield?
                                      • 16. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                        ArrrBee Level 1
                                        I honestly don't really care who the OP is. It has no bearing on the
                                        discussion. It could be Uncle Jed or Granny and the death of PhotoCD would
                                        still be the same. As Jethro would say, its viddles!

                                        Robert
                                        • 17. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                          Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                          Fortunately, Andrew Rodney definitely has Adobe's ear. I'm pretty sure Robert Barnett does not.
                                          • 18. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                            Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                            Just in case it's not clear by now, I second Andrew's request as may be allowed by copyrights considerations.
                                            • 19. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                              ArrrBee Level 1
                                              <Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com> wrote in message <br />news:3bc477f5.17@webcrossing.la2eafNXanI...<br />> Just in case it's not clear by now, I second Andrew's request as may be <br />> allowed by copyrights considerations.<br /><br /><br /><br />Oooo, wells there two!<br /><br />Robert
                                              • 20. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                Level 1
                                                On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:37:18 -0700, Robert_Barnett@adobeforums.com
                                                wrote:

                                                >Oooo, wells there two!

                                                Me too.



                                                --
                                                Dierk
                                                [DH² Publishing]
                                                www.DH2Publishing.info
                                                Writing and Imaging
                                                • 22. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                  MethodPhoto Level 1
                                                  It would be great to have such support, I don't have many PhotoCDs but the ones I have have some portfolio grade shots on. It is a mighty pain to get them off using the plugins

                                                  Richard Earney

                                                  --
                                                  [commercial link deleted]
                                                  • 23. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                    Would someone be kind enough to post the instructions on Mac to get the PhotoCD plug-ins to work? Copy PhotoCD.plugin to 'Plug-Ins/File Formats', check. Run in Rosetta mode, check. But I am missing the step of where to put the 'PhotoCD Color Profiles' folder. The technote at
                                                    http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb400945&sliceId=2
                                                    describes everything else and then refers to "the Kodak PhotoCD Read Me.txt" which I don't seem to have.

                                                    Many thanks, Jim
                                                    • 24. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                      (Andrew_Rodney) Level 1
                                                      Do you have the profiles? They can go anywhere any other ICC profiles live. I'd probably put them in Recommended (the folder where Adobe stores its other ICC profiles).

                                                      stdpyccl is one profile I have that is accessible for PCD.
                                                      • 25. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                        Level 1
                                                        Thanks Andrew. That was enough info to go on.
                                                        I copied the 'PhotoCD Color Profiles' folder to
                                                        /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles
                                                        and all is fine.

                                                        Thanks, Jim
                                                        • 26. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                          Add my voice to the vote for a new PCD acquire, specially in LightRoom. Using rosetta I batch processed a PCD, but since upgrading to 10.4.10 the flow now crashes after 2 images. PCD seemed like a good idea at the time. Apart from a new acquire module does any one know of a converter which will allow 16 bit conversion. It's a pity to throw away the extra data in those files.
                                                          Bob Hesse
                                                          • 27. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                            Geoff the kiwi Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                                            Gets my vote too.
                                                            • 28. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                              The Photo CD format is NOT dead as long as people still have Photo CD images that they want to recover. I don't how how many such people there are, but I'm one of them.

                                                              A simple-minded conversion to TIFF with Photoshop is possible, but it doesn't preserve all the information in the PCD file. In particular, highlights are normally washed out. I would pay money for a good conversion tool that would preserve all the information in the PCD file, and do it automatically in batch mode without manual intervention. As far as I can tell, such a tool doesn't currently exist.

                                                              Photo CD was once an excellent solution for ordinary people to get cheap and decent scanned images. I don't think I or anyone else was stupid to use it at that time. Sure, since then technology has moved on, and I can get better scans now using my Nikon CoolScan (though I have to invest much more time in doing it!).
                                                              • 29. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                ArrrBee Level 1
                                                                Stupid is a harsh word and one I won't use here. However, people that used
                                                                Photo CD were clueless. The fact that Kodak kept it highly proprietary,
                                                                never released a way for consumers to turn their own images in to PCD images
                                                                and other signs were a very clear indicator like the Kodak Disc Camera and
                                                                other things that it wasn't long for this world. The phase out of PCD
                                                                support didn't happen over night, it has taken at least 5 years the fact
                                                                that you didn't keep abreast of the situation and did the conversion to
                                                                another format sooner is not anyone's fault but your own.

                                                                You may want to check your Photoshop CDs. there used to be a conversion
                                                                filter and it maybe included still I don't know. Otherwise you need to be
                                                                happy with whatever you have that can get the PCD files to another format
                                                                that you can use. And do use this as a learning lesson. Stay away from
                                                                proprietary all you can and if you can't keep up on what's happening with it
                                                                so that you can move your data long to other and better formats before the
                                                                chance to do so is not available or costs you (in this case image quality).

                                                                Robert
                                                                • 30. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                  Level 1
                                                                  Robert, if you know of any better way of scanning film that was available in the mid-1990s at a similar price to that of Photo CD, I wish you would mention it. If you don't know of any better method, you're not entitled to call anyone clueless for using what was available.

                                                                  Were you scanning film in the mid-1990s? If so, what method did you use, and what did it cost?

                                                                  As for not having converted my Photo CD images earlier, what advantage would I have gained by doing it earlier? As far as I know, the conversion methods available now -- imperfect though they are -- are at least as good as any that were available earlier.

                                                                  It seems to me that you know very little about this subject, and you're wasting your own time and ours by posting ignorant and patronizing comments here.
                                                                  • 31. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                    (Andrew_Rodney) Level 1
                                                                    The big deal about Photo YCC is the big deal about Raw (well its not equivalent but close) and that is both are not output referred but scene referred data.

                                                                    http://www.color.org/ICC_white_paper_20_Digital_photography_color_management_basics.pdf
                                                                    • 32. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                      Level 1
                                                                      Thanks, Andrew. It would be nice if we could just convert the PCD files to some non-obsolete format in a way that preserves all the original information in the file. DNG conversion would seem suitable for this. Unfortunately, the software modules released by Kodak (and used by Adobe and other companies) have never seemed to do the job properly.

                                                                      It seems possible to me that Kodak expected other companies to configure its software intelligently (by setting up lookup tables or something) and this they never bothered to do. But this is just speculation.
                                                                      • 33. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                        Level 1
                                                                        Incidentally, it hasn't just occurred to me in 2008 to start converting my Photo CD images to other formats: I started doing it years ago. In the past, I normally did it using Paint Shop Pro, which gave passable results.

                                                                        I've realized only relatively recently that neither Paint Shop Pro nor Photoshop does a really good job of PCD conversion, and that we're still waiting for the definitive conversion tool.

                                                                        In the meantime, it's arguable that Paint Shop Pro does a better job of PCD conversion than Photoshop. Certainly it shows more detail in the highlights.
                                                                        • 34. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                          Level 1
                                                                          A historical note from the Wikipedia page about Photo CD:

                                                                          "The system failed to gain mass usage among consumers partly due to its proprietary nature, the rapid decline in the costs of scanners, and the lack of CD-ROM drives in most home personal computers of the day. The Photo CD system gained a fair level of acceptance among professional photographers due to the low cost of the high quality film scans. Prior to Photo CD, professionals who wished to digitize their film images were forced to pay much higher fees to obtain drum scans of their film negatives and transparencies."

                                                                          My own interpretation: when Photo CD appeared, it was a breakthrough in bringing film scanning to the masses. Nothing else was available of equivalent cost and quality. The main reason it wasn't a huge success was that many people didn't have CD drives at the time. I bought an add-on CD drive in 1993 specifically in order to read Photo CDs. As an amateur photographer, I'd never previously considered film scanning because it was an expensive business for professionals only.
                                                                          • 35. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                            ArrrBee Level 1
                                                                            Jonathan it really doesn't matter. PhotoCD is dead. You either stop using it
                                                                            and move your images to another format or you risk the very real out of of
                                                                            not being able to access your images at all. You may like the format and
                                                                            think it is all perfect and smiles, but Kodak killed it. It is dead, time to
                                                                            move on.

                                                                            Robert
                                                                            • 36. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                              ArrrBee Level 1
                                                                              Well Jonathan, keep waiting because we all know that Kodak, Adobe, Corel and
                                                                              everyone else is just sitting and waiting for the a dead format to become
                                                                              deader before they release the best software ever to support it.

                                                                              Robert
                                                                              • 37. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                                ArrrBee Level 1
                                                                                Lots of things over the decades have been breakthroughs. Betamax was one of
                                                                                them. That doesn't change the fact that Kodak killed it by not have the
                                                                                balls to do it right from the start. And, it doesn't change the fact that
                                                                                the format is dead. Either convert your images now getting the best possible
                                                                                results you can now, you will find in a few years you won't be able to touch
                                                                                them.

                                                                                Yes, you can keep older software that does support the format. However, as
                                                                                operating systems change older software quickly gets to the point that it
                                                                                won't run. If you think that some company like Adobe or Kodak or Corel is
                                                                                going to waste money coming up with a top of the line conversion program or
                                                                                plug-in for a format that has been dead at least 5 years your out of your
                                                                                mind.

                                                                                You have exactly one choice. Convert while you can or write off the images.

                                                                                Robert
                                                                                • 38. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                                  (Andrew_Rodney) Level 1
                                                                                  >Jonathan it really doesn't matter. PhotoCD is dead.

                                                                                  How so? How any more than a drum scan I made on a ScanMate 5000 at the same time period? IF I can render the PhotoYCC image pack, its not dead, its an archived scan. Just like the TIFF from the Scanmate. And I can render the image, the plug-in's still work, albeit slowly under Rosetta on my machines.

                                                                                  Its dead in you can't to my knowledge get a scan today in that format (so what?).

                                                                                  There was a desktop PIW I ran on a Mac for about a year, probably around 1997. At the time it was a mere $60K.
                                                                                  • 39. Re: Request for PhotoCD support
                                                                                    Level 1
                                                                                    Robert, if you're not interested in Photo CD I don't know why you keep coming here.

                                                                                    You keep telling me to convert my PCD files before it's too late. Well, of course. But there's no great hurry, and I'm currently trying to determine what is the best way of converting them. Given the imperfections of the various conversion tools available, there seems to be no single obvious choice.

                                                                                    It's quite possible that no better tool will ever be produced. But it does no harm to ask.
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