6 Replies Latest reply: Jun 26, 2008 1:25 PM by Bill Hunt RSS

    DVD Authoring Preference

    Community Member
      I'm completely done with trying to use Encore. I love most of the software Adobe creates but this one is too frustrating and the support for it is even worse.
      However, before I leap into purchasing another program I was wondering if anyone had any insight to other programs they would recommend. I'm looking at Scenarist and I also have Vegas Architect on my machine for evaluation. Any information would be helpful, especially listing other programs I haven't already mentioned.
      Thanks,
      Chaz
        • 1. Re: DVD Authoring Preference
          Ruud Blauw Community Member
          >I'm looking at Scenarist...

          You must have very deep pockets... ;)
          • 2. Re: DVD Authoring Preference
            Neil Wilkes CommunityMVP
            Chaz, Scenarist is dreadfully expensive and requires a very serious In-Depth understanding of the DVD-Video specifications.
            There is no Abstraction Layer, and you will need to learn all the programming language for DVD-Video, as well as what the commands do, and the various limitations, restrictions & options each area entails.
            You'll need to understand the difference between VMGM and VTSM menus, and also the difference between title, menu & system spaces.
            You'll also require around £13,000 ($26,000) for a copy - unless you go for Scenarist Studio (which is drastically cut-down, and limits you immensely) which is "only" about $5,000.
            You'll need an XP or 2000 OS, as there is no Vista support unless you go to Scenarist 4.x, and that costs $50,000 plus CineVision (another $50,000) and if you want the full (replicable) Blu-Ray deal, that's another $50,000.

            You'll need to learn how to design all your menus manually (PSD import is not an option in Scenarist. You must design backgrounds, SubPicture Highlight layers & also Button Overlays, all to exact naming protocols, to precise locations (or the application will refuse to import them) and if you break a naming protocol, the importer will import the file, but the multiplexer will not compile it and you get seriously odd error messages that will be truncated, so all you see is the first & last characters, and none in-between).
            You must feed it with strictly DVD compliant files - no built-in transcoding here - or you're stuffed.

            Once you have spent 6 months learning how to use it, it's wonderful. So's Encore. And please do not take this the wrong way, but if you are having trouble with Encore, Scenarist will kill you. It
            i expects
            a certain level of knowledge - or perhaps it would be better to say that it
            i demands
            a certain level of knowledge.
            And Sonic's Support sucks - big time. Again, if you think Adobe are poor, then you are in for one nasty shock my friend. Adobe are much better than a lot of people give them the credit for. Believe me, I know.

            The real problem you face (and BTW, Scenarist uses the Sonic AuthorCore, exactly the same as Adobe does - and if you think Encore's error messages are obscure, just you wait until your first Scenarist project hits the rails!!) is that whilst the grass may well appear to be greener, it rarely is once you get over that fence.
            If you think that a high-end application is for you, then try the 30 day version of DVD-Lab Pro. But seriously, I implore you, avoid Scenarist unless you know
            i exactly
            what you are doing, Spec-wise & language wise.

            Finally.
            Scenarist has no "Trial" version - so I do not comprehend how you are "looking at it" - unless you are using an illegal version. In which case, Sonic will nab you the first disc you send for replication, as they know what versions are legal & what versions are not, and believe me when I tell you that as a flagship application, it embeds certain information into the IFO files - I know this because Sonic's flagship DVD-Audio application (the one I own) does the same thing.
            • 3. Re: DVD Authoring Preference
              Community Member
              Thanks for the input... if you're an Adobe rep set out to scare people off of $cenarist you deserve a raise :) Then again, after visiting their website their own reps can do that just fine [$$$$]. You're extremely polite and thats commendable and thanks for the suggestion on DVD Lab. Instead of saying "looking at" I should have said 'considering'. Since then I've uncovered a half dozen other products I'm now considering. Vegas is legal and loaded... but my run-on sentence certainly made it sound like Scenarist was as well (at least loaded). It's not nor was it.

              I am a novice at authoring DVD's but my livelihood is still currently dependent on it. My deadline has passed and my patience is overextended, but I'm not here to bash Adobe or Encore, I'm just looking for a solution to replace it until it gets fixed. I believe the top tier of management for the Encore team needs to step up and address the problem of why this program is so buggy on burns. My problem with the 'help' is the denial that this product has a serious flaw: It has a critical memory issue and the scads of forums I've visited seem to reinforce this sentiment.

              I liken Encore to a BMW with a cracked engine block. Nice features and amenities but it's not doing me any good if it doesn't get me to where I want to go.

              BTW- Vegas Architect is proving a bit unwieldy with its PS menu creation feature... too bad, since my company had already bought it for another coworker (for the editing not the DVD authoring).
              • 4. Re: DVD Authoring Preference
                Neil Wilkes CommunityMVP
                Chris.

                Happy to try & help, although in some places what I say is not always welcome. I'm not an Adobe rep either - I'm a freelancer and unaffiliated t Adobe at all. Apologies for casting unworthy aspersions re Scenarist - in these forums we sadly get lots of folks who say they are using it, Encore,Vegas and Uncle Tom Cobley & all. Obviously not all are legit.

                DVD Burning is far from a straightforward thing, and all comments about Encore aside a successful burn can depend on many things. In my honest experience with Encore, burning has never been an issue for me or my partner, and we must have burned many hundreds of discs with it's various incarnations by now and the only times (reaching for handy piece of wood) we have had problems have been caused by the interface - the one located between Chair & Keyboard!!
                Basically, the more burn applications installed, the more likely there will be issues. Packet Writing utilities can - and do - cause utter havoc with authoring systems, and there are also plenty of rogue codecs out there - DivX is one - that will give trouble. There's an article in the FAQ section here that gives some of the commoner causes of Burn errors - it's worth a good look.

                Solutions.
                The best option in any case (in my experience) is always to output as either a folder or an image - unless you are mastering to DLT tape, in which case Encore will handle this for you. I output to a folder for instant checking in software, plus it allows me to edit any minor stuff in things like the excellent PGCEdit (this will allow tweaking of VM commands and things like the CLUT tables for colour mapping without having to re-author from scratch.
                Outputting to an ISO image is also another excellent solution, then you can burn this image to an RW disc (for testing) or to -/+R for sending out to clients using tools like IMGburn - which carries it's own internal drivers & engines for burning and does not imapct on any other installed applications at all. For Dual Layer discs it also allows detailed previewing & editing of Layer Breaks, complete with a cell preview so you can see
                i exactly
                where the break goes. It is a seriously reliable burn engine.
                Other problems can include not being logged on as an administrator, and in conjunction with having Packet Writing tools installed is the commonest cause of Burn failure in Encore. Remove these causes & 95% of issues are sorted out. The problem with relying on forums for information about reliability of any application is that you will only ever read about trouble. Those in the vast majority of users who have no trouble at all with Encore probably don't even know this forum even exists - they are not going to log in, register & everything just to write
                "Hey - everything's just fine" and go away again. So I believe the perception of Encore being unreliable is somewhat skewed.

                Other applications.
                These all have their own issues. Even Scenarist has it's little quirks. DVD-Lab Pro is wonderful, but - and this is a doozie - the more menus and timelines you have open, and the more memory gets sucked out of the system. It's common to all.

                Another serious issue that is often overlooked re memory issues is the number of people attempting to use over 2Gb in a 32bit OS.
                This has a nasty down-side that is often not mentioned.
                Normally, with 2Gb or less, you will never get issues with Video Cards etc munching RAM. This is because the way the 3Gb switch works is by removing system overhead that Video Cards, sound cards, DSP cards and the like use. A Parhelia 256 munches 512Mb of this RAM - and when you have 3 or 4Gb installed, it has to come from system RAM as you have removed the system reserve to try & address RAM the OS was never designed to use in the first place. Hence, although you may
                i think
                you have plenty of RAM, the system cannot use it (often on the motherboard level, but that's another story altogether) because large chunks are swallowed up by your AGP & PCI cards. This can easily lead to instability, and a system that thinks it has more available memory than it really has, ans problems start to pop up all over the place.

                Good Luck - whatever you decide.
                • 5. Re: DVD Authoring Preference
                  Community Member
                  Thanks Neil.

                  I'll move over to the Encore specific forums to start asking questions appropriate to the spirit of the specific message boards.

                  Tring IMGBurn now....thanks!

                  Ugh,
                  Chaz
                  • 6. Re: DVD Authoring Preference
                    Bill Hunt CommunityMVP
                    Neil,

                    I concur with your assessment of the "problems with Encore." Nearly every problem, that a subscriber has encountered, has been addressed and answered in a satisfactory way. With, but few exceptions, the OPs (and those who tag on with, hey, Ive got the same problem) have all been helped, and their Projects burned successfully. The problems are heavily in the OE room, with equipment/software conflicts accounting for almost all of the rest.

                    As for the users with few, or no problems, I also agree, that most folk only show up, when they have a problem. You will never find many I ♥Encore, or Premiere or Photoshop, only Ive got a problem with this POS software package.

                    I found this forum, when I had some questions on how to do things, that I could not find in the Manual, F1, of Jeff Bellunes Encore2 book. While waiting for rendering, or burning to complete on my workstation, I stuck around for the great reading. I found solutions for problems, that I did not know I might have, and a ton of creative solutions for Menus and navigation, that I would never have figured out on my own. However, if one did a Google of problems in Encore (or fill in the name of almost every software package), it would seem that no one has ever burned a DVD with it, so it must not work at all, let alone how advertised. Could not be farther from the truth.

                    Though I had done a handful of DVDs from Pinnacle Studio, I really knew nothing of authoring. Thanks to you, Jeff, Joe, Ruud and so many others, I now feel competent tackling all but the most involved Projects, and even then, I know that youall could talk me through the process.

                    I believe that Chaz will be well served, by taking a breath, and posting each problem in the appropriate forum. Ive yet to find, but a very few, instances, that one, or more of you, could not handle, with just a bit of info and time to think. You guys have about a 98+% success rate, and thats pretty danged good.

                    Ill just add my comments on Encore (2 only for me), that it has done almost everything I could possibly want, and youve all pointed why the few limitations exist - usually because of the DVD specs, themselves. Ive only had one error message and a re-do of the Project from 0, took care of that one. Ive only had one buggy bit of behavior, and that was with Save from PS for Menus. Never found out why, but found that a few extra Ctrl-ss took care of even that.

                    While I love Encore2, I have held off on the full CS3 Production Studio upgrade, as it does seem that there are some problems in CS3 (Encore included), that I just do not need to fight. When CS4 has been out for a few months, and the early adapters have weighed in, Ill probably give Adobe all my $ and jump on that, with PS-Extended included.

                    Well, its off to read all the posts on the newly found DVD Authoring Lounge, cause Premiere tells me itll still be another 2 hours, till its done...

                    Hunt