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1. Re: Copy Protection
John T Smith Sep 14, 2005 10:40 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Just a comment...
I doubt Adobe (or any other DVD writing software company) will ever do this
Copy protection is a matter of the DVD SPECIFICATION, since it must be supported by the desktop player market, not any one company that produces computer software -
2. Re: Copy Protection
(Anders_Bergquist) Sep 16, 2005 5:27 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Copyprotection is markings at the edge of the dvd and normal dvd+-r/rw can not write to this part of the dvd. Therefore, it is impossibly for a dvd-authoring software to make copy protection to dvd+-r/rws. -
3. Re: Copy Protection
(James_Debney) Sep 16, 2005 10:55 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Thank you, John and Anders. I had thought a great deal about the seeming impossibility of adding copy protection to DVD-R/+R. My point is merely to draw attention to the huge commercial attraction of copy protection if it could be added in some way to Encore for -R/+R. I, and many people such as me, would pay handsomely for it. Encore would be the only programme for videographers and those who need to try and control the distribution of their work -
4. Re: Copy Protection
(Jon_Gritton) Sep 26, 2005 3:55 AM (in response to (James_Debney))James, I fear you've missed the point. It's not physically possible for Encore to make this a reality. You might as well ask them to include a faster than light spaceship in each box.
More importantly, if you're at the stage where you need copy protection then you should probably be thinking of dealing with a pressing plant anyway. Most of us who use Encore professionally do not distribute on recordable media so there's no need for a solution, for those that do it's probably not that big a requirement.
Jon -
5. Re: Copy Protection
Neil Wilkes Sep 26, 2005 4:42 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Actually, there is a sort of a workaround here.
If youy burn your master to a DVD-RW that has a built-in CPRM system, then you will find that you can copy from the RW master, but you should not be able to copy the copy.
CPRM is like the SCMS system used by MiniDisc, and basically uses a scrambling system so that only a single generation of copies can be made. -
6. Re: Copy Protection
(James_Debney) Sep 26, 2005 6:38 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Jon, I fully understand the requirements of my `top-of-the-wish-list`. I`m just making the point that there are many of us out here who would pay a great deal for protecting the results of our creativity.
Very short runs of professional DVD presentations are common - whoever heard of a videographer selling hundreds of copies of a wedding video? So your observation about commercial reproduction is not valid.
Neil`s suggestion is most interesting, since it shows where ingenuity is tested that there may be a solution. Where do I buy an RW that has a built-in CPRM system? I`m not aware I`ve ever come across one in the UK.
This is an experiment worth doing. Thank you Neil for a most excellent idea. -
7. Re: Copy Protection
(Jon_Gritton) Sep 27, 2005 1:12 AM (in response to (James_Debney))James, my point that it's nothing to do with Encore still stands - Neil's solution is based around a specifically prepared DVD-RW, not a setting or addition to Encore.
On the subject of needing copy protection I'll hold my hands up to not thinking terribly clearly :) I'm afraid I made the cardinal sin of thinking that small runs = no commercial value, which of course is utter rubbish.
Deuce, I think :)
Jon -
8. Re: Copy Protection
Neil Wilkes Sep 27, 2005 2:39 AM (in response to (James_Debney))The DVD-RW disc that I have with CPRM built into it was made - or at least carries the name - by Pioneer.
I will use DVD identify to find out who actually made the beast & post back later today.
Copy Protection is not as dear as some think it is:
CSS is free, no royalty, and is added at the replication stage by the replication facility.
There are other methods too:
This is the best set of details I can come up with at this time:
1. CSS is free at the replication stage (you need to add the css program at authoring time)
So why not use it anyway? It will help to deter the "average Joe" who just thought it would be good to make a copy for his girlfriend or work colleague. You can have both CSS and ACP for double protection.
2. ACP has a royalty attached (and you need to flag the Macrovision cps at authoring time)
With the extra 15 pence per unit there is a clear cost implication - but presumably the value of the video course material is such that this would seem trivial.
The great advantage of ACP is that is solves the problem of the analogue output to video recorders, media centre PCs, etc. I guess if it's good enough for Holywood movies it should be good enough for us!
3. ARccOS is possibly the best DVD protection available currently (you supply the DLT with your DVD content and Sony prepare the copy protection)
There will be a setup charge for each DVD (I'm waiting for the exact figures to come down from Sony for your particular spec, but I believe it will be under £250 per master) and then a royalty of 10p per disc. Should more copies be needed later, the setup fee is waived, although they apply some modifications so each new batch is uniquely encoded. The same royalty will be charged on subsequent runs.
4. SecuROM is Sony's recommended protection system for DVD-ROM though they assure me it will also protect the video component (again, you supply the DLT and they do the rest)
The setup charge will be the same as ARccOS, but the royalty is 14p per disc.
It seems that in the end it will have to be a combination of required level of protection and cost: I would have to say the CSS/ACP option offers the best value. If money is no object, or if some rogue copies would be disastrous, then the Sony solutions may offer the best protection. But as they all tell you - no protection will ever be 100% effective. -
9. Re: Copy Protection
Neil Wilkes Sep 27, 2005 2:40 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Incidentally - anything over 300 units, and replication actually gets cheaper than duplication. -
10. Re: Copy Protection
(James_Debney) Sep 27, 2005 11:49 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Interesting statistics for copy protection via DLT. But for videographers runs of 2 to 10 are the norm. A completely different order of scale. -
11. Re: Copy Protection
Neil Wilkes Sep 28, 2005 1:58 AM (in response to (James_Debney))I know, understand & sympathize.
Trouble is, unless you want to get into adding bad sectors manually, or use the CPRM approach, it jest ain't possible!
Incidentally, that DVD-RW with CPRM is made by Pioneer. -
12. Re: Copy Protection
(James_Debney) Sep 28, 2005 5:14 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Thanks Neil, I`ll have a look at that. I`ll post a note when the experiment is done - probably not this month (October). Some method of inhibiting copying would be more than useful, but, as you say, there doesn`t seem to be an obvious route via Encore for DVD-R. -
13. Re: Copy Protection
(Tim_Montague) Jun 21, 2007 12:38 PM (in response to (James_Debney))Hi James,
Up until 4 weeks ago, copy protection for recordable DVDRs was not available, however it now is. The copy Protection available is Macrovision's RipGuard anti-ripping copy protection which already protects over 200 million of Hollywood's DVDs. Macrovision has completed the rework of RipGuard to allow it's implimentation on Recordable DVD, and in the last 30 days we have already protected over 2000 Recordables.
On top of that is is very affordable, ranging from just a few dollars per disc, to less than a dollar per disc based upon quantities from 1 DVDR to 500+ DVDR.
Currently we are the only licensed and accredited Provider of this service in the U.S. because of our long standing partnership with Macrovision and their confidence in our quality control systems and infrastructure.
Beginning Monday, June 25th, we launch our national marketing campaign for RipGuard-MOD, and you will be reading about it in trade journals everywhere.
I invite you to give me a call and I would be happy to provide you with more information and pricing. You can also visit: www.RipGuardMOD.com for more information and to download the RipGuard MOD Datasheet.
I look forward to speaking with you.
Sincerely,
Tim Montague
Chicago Digital Post
Great Lakes Digital Media
Chicago, IL USA
(877) 4MyVideo (toll-free)
(877) 469-8433 (toll-free) -
14. Re: Copy Protection
John T Smith Jun 21, 2007 2:47 PM (in response to (James_Debney))Go to the search link and enter ripguard
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?126@@.1de98ec0
Discussed many times... read before you use -
15. Re: Copy Protection
(Dominic_Osborne) Dec 15, 2008 10:41 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Hi,
We can offer you copy protected DVD-R video discs.
They are protected with the same level of protection as RipGuard and Sony ARCoSS. Therefore, in hand-on-heart-honesty they are still crackable by the most hardcore, but it depends really on how much effort you think members of your audience will go to or what knowledge they possess.
To make it worth your while, you probably want to have an order of 50 DVDs or more. We can apply this for an additional 50 pence per unit above original duplication costs.
If thia is of interest to you, contact us from our site at www dot eesb dot tv
Hope this may be of use to some of you.
Thanks,
Dom -
16. Re: Copy Protection
(James_Debney) Dec 15, 2008 12:02 PM (in response to (James_Debney))Hi Dominic,
Sorry, this is not appropriate for videographers like myself. We produce small runs, three or four DVD-R disks, and we want to protect these from copying. Thanks for trying. James. -
17. Re: Copy Protection
(Tim_Montague) Dec 19, 2008 2:22 PM (in response to (James_Debney))Hey Dom,
Just curious, what kind of copy protection are you offering if not RipGuard or Arcoss? How much would a run of 50 be? and where can I get more information on it and your organization?
~ Tim -
18. Re: Copy Protection
(Dominic_Osborne) Jan 24, 2009 9:51 AM (in response to (James_Debney))Hi,
Completely lost track of this thread.
You can find us at www.eesb.tv and www.eesb.tv/discs
Please feel free to get in touch.
Dom



