14 Replies Latest reply on Sep 10, 2008 1:06 AM by Newsgroup_User

    Auto Font Download

    Prellyan Luxtintner Level 1
      Hey there,

      how can I get a user to download custom fonts automatically so the sites i build look better using custom fonts?

      Thanks
        • 1. Re: Auto Font Download
          Level 7
          You can't.

          --
          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
          Adobe Community Expert
          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
          ==================
          http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
          ==================


          "Prellyan Luxtintner" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
          news:g9rjev$csj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          > Hey there,
          >
          > how can I get a user to download custom fonts automatically so the sites i
          > build look better using custom fonts?
          >
          > Thanks

          • 2. Re: Auto Font Download
            Level 7
            You're dreaming. Can't be done. And besides, how much more arrogant could it
            be than to tell a site visitor they must allow a download so they can see a
            certain typeface? That mentality died years ago when web designers realized
            the negative impact of statements on pages like, "To view this site you must
            have Internet Explorer version (whatever)" or, "Best viewed at 1024 x 768
            screen size".

            Use this list:
            http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
            or make the text a graphic. Of course that raises a whole new set of
            obstacles.

            --

            Walt


            "Prellyan Luxtintner" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
            news:g9rjev$csj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            > Hey there,
            >
            > how can I get a user to download custom fonts automatically so the sites i
            > build look better using custom fonts?
            >
            > Thanks


            • 3. Re: Auto Font Download
              Prellyan Luxtintner Level 1
              whoa walt --- getting a bit antsy there --- basically as a designer i am tired of the stock fonts that get installed - web design is a creative process and as such the demand for interesting formats is high - if an industry limits itself by not extending the reach and process of its components then well there goes the neighbourhood -

              not eveyone installs the entire suite of msoft fonts for example so it would be good to be able to have that functionality - this is not arrogance in dictating to the end user - this is an attempt to expand the creative side of our industry to encompass the many FREE and available fonts created by exceptional designers - to bring variety and panache to what quite frankly is considered by most people in the real world still to be the denzion of porn addicts and geeks rather that the potential for imaginative and artisitc interfaces for the processes relating to both educational and commercial aspects of a web site.

              to remain beholden to the msoft suite alone is just another reason PHP should continue it flourishing growth so as not to stymie our industry with whims limiting its creative growth.

              perhaps a link saying download site fonts here to maximise your exeperience would be appropriate however a nice script that checks a sites fonts against the end user c:/windows/fonts file and then provides an automatic notification saying would you like to download the site fonts would be a great feature to any creative designer -- and a wonderful experience for end users as they employ web based solutions and applications that look good.

              but i guess the thought of stepping outside the it cant be done box is a bit much for you.

              i do appreciate your advice however both of those solutions are known to me and both are inappropriate for what needs to be achieved.

              cheers
              • 4. Re: Auto Font Download
                Level 7
                >a nice script that checks a sites fonts against
                > the end user c:/windows/fonts file and then provides an automatic
                > notification
                > saying would you like to download the site fonts would be a great feature

                Why don't you create that script. That would be a good way to "put your
                money where your mouth is", so to speak.

                --

                Walt


                "Prellyan Luxtintner" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                news:g9rmqa$ghj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                > whoa walt --- getting a bit antsy there --- basically as a designer i am
                > tired
                > of the stock fonts that get installed - web design is a creative process
                > and as
                > such the demand for interesting formats is high - if an industry limits
                > itself
                > by not extending the reach and process of its components then well there
                > goes
                > the neighbourhood -
                >
                > not eveyone installs the entire suite of msoft fonts for example so it
                > would
                > be good to be able to have that functionality - this is not arrogance in
                > dictating to the end user - this is an attempt to expand the creative side
                > of
                > our industry to encompass the many FREE and available fonts created by
                > exceptional designers - to bring variety and panache to what quite frankly
                > is
                > considered by most people in the real world still to be the denzion of
                > porn
                > addicts and geeks rather that the potential for imaginative and artisitc
                > interfaces for the processes relating to both educational and commercial
                > aspects of a web site.
                >
                > to remain beholden to the msoft suite alone is just another reason PHP
                > should
                > continue it flourishing growth so as not to stymie our industry with whims
                > limiting its creative growth.
                >
                > perhaps a link saying download site fonts here to maximise your
                > exeperience
                > would be appropriate however a nice script that checks a sites fonts
                > against
                > the end user c:/windows/fonts file and then provides an automatic
                > notification
                > saying would you like to download the site fonts would be a great feature
                > to
                > any creative designer -- and a wonderful experience for end users as they
                > employ web based solutions and applications that look good.
                >
                > but i guess the thought of stepping outside the it cant be done box is a
                > bit
                > much for you.
                >
                > i do appreciate your advice however both of those solutions are known to
                > me
                > and both are inappropriate for what needs to be achieved.
                >
                > cheers
                >


                • 5. Re: Auto Font Download
                  malcster2 Level 1
                  the thing is mate, you might be tired of limited fonts, but the average webpage view probably doesn't give a s#*t.

                  the web is there for webpage viewers, not programmers.

                  in answer to your question, you could jazz your site up by for instance, saying, thanks for viewing my site. as a reward, you have the option of downloading some free fonts.

                  this should be an option, and your page should work just as well without them
                  • 6. Re: Auto Font Download
                    Level 7
                    It just can't happen. Sorry. Your only options are -

                    1. Use a graphic (obviously not suitable for all content)
                    2. Use an image replacement method like sIFR (again, obviously not suitable
                    for content)
                    3. Nut it out with the 'web safe' set of font families

                    --
                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                    Adobe Community Expert
                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                    ==================
                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                    ==================


                    "Prellyan Luxtintner" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                    news:g9rmqa$ghj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > whoa walt --- getting a bit antsy there --- basically as a designer i am
                    > tired
                    > of the stock fonts that get installed - web design is a creative process
                    > and as
                    > such the demand for interesting formats is high - if an industry limits
                    > itself
                    > by not extending the reach and process of its components then well there
                    > goes
                    > the neighbourhood -
                    >
                    > not eveyone installs the entire suite of msoft fonts for example so it
                    > would
                    > be good to be able to have that functionality - this is not arrogance in
                    > dictating to the end user - this is an attempt to expand the creative side
                    > of
                    > our industry to encompass the many FREE and available fonts created by
                    > exceptional designers - to bring variety and panache to what quite frankly
                    > is
                    > considered by most people in the real world still to be the denzion of
                    > porn
                    > addicts and geeks rather that the potential for imaginative and artisitc
                    > interfaces for the processes relating to both educational and commercial
                    > aspects of a web site.
                    >
                    > to remain beholden to the msoft suite alone is just another reason PHP
                    > should
                    > continue it flourishing growth so as not to stymie our industry with whims
                    > limiting its creative growth.
                    >
                    > perhaps a link saying download site fonts here to maximise your
                    > exeperience
                    > would be appropriate however a nice script that checks a sites fonts
                    > against
                    > the end user c:/windows/fonts file and then provides an automatic
                    > notification
                    > saying would you like to download the site fonts would be a great feature
                    > to
                    > any creative designer -- and a wonderful experience for end users as they
                    > employ web based solutions and applications that look good.
                    >
                    > but i guess the thought of stepping outside the it cant be done box is a
                    > bit
                    > much for you.
                    >
                    > i do appreciate your advice however both of those solutions are known to
                    > me
                    > and both are inappropriate for what needs to be achieved.
                    >
                    > cheers
                    >

                    • 7. Re: Auto Font Download
                      Level 7
                      > how can I get a user to download custom fonts automatically so the sites i
                      > build look better using custom fonts?

                      You can provided the font supports it (legally) and the end-user is using a
                      browser that suppports it.

                      There are some different ways to go about it:

                      IE supports OET: http://www.fontembedding.com/fonts-and-the-web/

                      CSS2 has facilities for font-linking, which I think only Safari and IE
                      supports.: http://www.webfonts.info/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

                      Ultimately, the bigger challenge will be legal. Font foundries, like record
                      labels, are profoundly paranoid about technologies like this. At the moment,
                      from a legal standpoint, you need to use a typeface that grants you web
                      embedding rights, or you use a free face.

                      So between the limited fonts that have a license to allow this, and the
                      limited support of browsers, you're still not quite going to achieve what
                      you want.

                      As such, if you want to pick some specific typefaces you use them sparingly
                      as image headlines or sIFR (flash embedding) snippets, and then stick with
                      standard web fonts for the rest of your body copy.

                      -Darrel

                      • 8. Re: Auto Font Download
                        Level 7
                        > perhaps a link saying download site fonts here to maximise your
                        > exeperience
                        > would be appropriate however a nice script that checks a sites fonts
                        > against
                        > the end user c:/windows/fonts file and then provides an automatic
                        > notification
                        > saying would you like to download the site fonts would be a great feature
                        > to
                        > any creative designer -

                        A 'creative' designer maximized the fature set of the medium they are
                        working in to the best of their ability. A creative designer doesn't see
                        'limitations'...merely parameters of the particular medium.

                        > and a wonderful experience for end users as they
                        > employ web based solutions and applications that look good.

                        The web is about user choice. You, as a designer, have to take the approach
                        that you are merely SUGGESTING a visual design, but ultimately are letting
                        the end-user do what they wish.

                        There's no doubt that more access to typefaces will be nice to have, but
                        just remember that you can't really dictate it. It's still going to be up to
                        the end-users as to whether or not they care and/or want that.

                        -Darrel

                        • 9. Re: Auto Font Download
                          bregent Most Valuable Participant
                          >how can I get a user to download custom fonts automatically so the sites i build look better using custom fonts?

                          It would certainly be nice to be able to display custom fonts on your website but as the others have already mentioned, there's no practical way without resorting to using Flash or graphics. So if you use custom font be sure the site also looks good in a websafe font, because practically nobody is going to download your custom font.
                          Consider browsing a site that asks you to download a special font to enhance your viewing. Would you download something from an anonymous site? Most visitors will not. It's not worth the risk or the time.

                          A script to detect installed fonts is also not practical as thankfully, browsers cannot scan your hard drive for installed files. And installed fonts are not something that browsers expose to the server. And even if they could, having a popup that asks you to download something when you land on a site seems like a dangerous technique. If I enter a site that immediately launches a download popup, I x out of the popup and close the browser and don't return.

                          I'm betting this will change in the future, but for now you'll need to work with what's available.
                          • 10. Re: Auto Font Download
                            Level 7

                            "Walt F. Schaefer" <walt@waltswebworx.com> wrote in message
                            news:g9rkf0$e1q$1@forums.macromedia.com...

                            > You're dreaming. Can't be done. And besides, how much more arrogant could
                            > it be than to tell a site visitor they must allow a download so they can
                            > see a certain typeface?

                            I don't know, Walt - some of your posts seem about equally as arrogant!
                            Can't you watch your tone a little bit, amigo?! A simple, "It can't be
                            done" would suffice, don't you think?

                            --
                            Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                            Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                            Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                            --

                            That mentality died years ago when web designers realized
                            > the negative impact of statements on pages like, "To view this site you
                            > must have Internet Explorer version (whatever)" or, "Best viewed at 1024 x
                            > 768 screen size".
                            >
                            > Use this list:
                            > http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
                            > or make the text a graphic. Of course that raises a whole new set of
                            > obstacles.
                            >
                            > --
                            >
                            > Walt
                            >
                            >
                            > "Prellyan Luxtintner" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                            > news:g9rjev$csj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                            >> Hey there,
                            >>
                            >> how can I get a user to download custom fonts automatically so the sites
                            >> i build look better using custom fonts?
                            >>
                            >> Thanks
                            >
                            >

                            • 11. Re: Auto Font Download
                              Level 7

                              "Prellyan Luxtintner" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                              news:g9rmqa$ghj$1@forums.macromedia.com...

                              > perhaps a link saying download site fonts here to maximise your
                              > exeperience
                              > would be appropriate however a nice script that checks a sites fonts
                              > against
                              > the end user c:/windows/fonts file and then provides an automatic
                              > notification
                              > saying would you like to download the site fonts would be a great feature
                              > to
                              > any creative designer -- and a wonderful experience for end users as they
                              > employ web based solutions and applications that look good.

                              "Prellyan", I very much doubt that anybody - anybody at all, ever - would do
                              that. It's just nowhere *near* important enough to users.

                              Plus: good designers have been making beautiful web pages for years using
                              the commonly available fonts, plus occasional images when a special font is
                              important to the design.


                              --
                              Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                              Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                              Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                              --

                              • 12. Re: Auto Font Download
                                Level 7
                                Sure! ;-)

                                --

                                Walt


                                "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                news:g9ugtc$jph$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                >
                                > "Walt F. Schaefer" <walt@waltswebworx.com> wrote in message
                                > news:g9rkf0$e1q$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                >
                                >> You're dreaming. Can't be done. And besides, how much more arrogant could
                                >> it be than to tell a site visitor they must allow a download so they can
                                >> see a certain typeface?
                                >
                                > I don't know, Walt - some of your posts seem about equally as arrogant!
                                > Can't you watch your tone a little bit, amigo?! A simple, "It can't be
                                > done" would suffice, don't you think?
                                >
                                > --
                                > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                > --
                                >
                                > That mentality died years ago when web designers realized
                                >> the negative impact of statements on pages like, "To view this site you
                                >> must have Internet Explorer version (whatever)" or, "Best viewed at 1024
                                >> x 768 screen size".
                                >>
                                >> Use this list:
                                >> http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
                                >> or make the text a graphic. Of course that raises a whole new set of
                                >> obstacles.
                                >>
                                >> --
                                >>
                                >> Walt
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> "Prellyan Luxtintner" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                >> news:g9rjev$csj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                >>> Hey there,
                                >>>
                                >>> how can I get a user to download custom fonts automatically so the sites
                                >>> i build look better using custom fonts?
                                >>>
                                >>> Thanks
                                >>
                                >>
                                >


                                • 13. Re: Auto Font Download
                                  Prellyan Luxtintner Level 1
                                  wow - such a diverse response - actually it is good cause there are pros and cons from both sides - not much to do in the short term though to change it - yeah jsut get a bit frustrated that there are so many cool ways to design but limited in the potential for end users.

                                  Thanks so much for the information - and i really do hope i didnt offend anyone.
                                  • 14. Re: Auto Font Download
                                    Level 7
                                    .oO(Prellyan Luxtintner)

                                    >wow - such a diverse response - actually it is good cause there are pros and
                                    >cons from both sides - not much to do in the short term though to change it -
                                    >yeah jsut get a bit frustrated that there are so many cool ways to design but
                                    >limited in the potential for end users.

                                    The end users won't see it as a limitation, only the designers do.

                                    Micha