4 Replies Latest reply on Apr 11, 2009 5:22 AM by Kurvah

    Seeking Information on PE4 Encoding and Encoders.

      Hi.  I have spent several hours looking at forums and manuals trying to learn how to better use my stuff.  I have several questions which I have not found answers too.  If some folks could help answer some or all, it would be appreciated.

        I have several applications on my PC which have the ability to make a DVD.  They Are Arcsoft Showbiz; Arcsoft Total Media 3; ATI Catalyst Media Center and Premier Elements 4.  Can PE4 get confused and grab one of the other program's encoding programs instead of using its own.  I am assuming that PE4 has the better encoding program and hope I am using it.  I used G-Spot to see all of my "Video Codec and filters".  The only ones which showed up which were associated with Adobe were these.
      DSH    MPEG1Packet    MainConcept (Adobe2) MPEG Video Decoder    ad2mcdsmpeg.ax
      DSH    MPEG1System    MainConcept (Adobe2) MPEG Splitter    ad2mcspmpeg.ax

      -  Does that sound right?

      My video files are SD 4:3.   Using GSpot, I found out the following.
      One of my Sony DCR-TRV280 .avi files had an average bit rate of 22589 kb/sec  &  2.786 bits-pixel/frame (GSpot Quality measurement)
      One of my Sony DCR-SR220 MPEG-2 files had an average bit rate of 9100 kb/sec  &  0.879 bits-pixel/frame (GSpot Quality measurement)
      Both files, when turned into DVD by PE4 at the maximum 8MB/s setting had an average bit rat of 8813 kb/sec  &  0.851 bits-pixel/frame (GSpot Quality measurement)  The DVD size was less than 1GB.

      - The encoder used by PE4 seems to hit it's limit at 8813 kb/sec.  Is this a limitation of the encoder, or a standard set by DVD-Video?

       

      - If there is no defined standard bit rate upper limit for DVD-Video, are there better encoders out there which go above the PE4 8813 kb/sec capability?

       

      - If there are better encoders, can a person buy one and plug it into PE4 -or- export an edited file out of PE4 and have this higher level encoder convert the file?

       

      - I have a DVD of a youth football game made by another dad.  His camcorder was one of the best about 3 years ago and the DVD looks way better than what my camcorder can do.  GSpot says his DVD has a average bit rate of 8000 kb/sec  &  0.772 bits-pixel/frame (GSpot Quality measurement).  My DVD files have higher bit rate and bits-pixel/frame measurements than his, but his looks way better.  If the standard definition screen is 720x480 pixels, then there are a total of 345,600 pixels in a frame?  If my DCR-SR220 has 1,120,000 actual pixels at 4:3, then my camcorder should be well above the 345,600 pixels in a SD 720x480 frame?  I am sure there is more to it than this and that is what I am trying to find out.

       

      If anybody can enlighten me I would appreciate it.

        • 1. Re: Seeking Information on PE4 Encoding and Encoders.
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          8813 kb/sec is a pretty good bitrate for DVD files, Kurvah! I don't think you'll find much better than that.

          • 2. Re: Seeking Information on PE4 Encoding and Encoders.
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Kurvah,

             

            The DVD specs limit one to 9.8kbps bit-rate, for a combined Audio & Video. You cannot exceed that to have a fully in-spec. file. This is for the absolute high "spikes," in the encoding process.

             

            Depending on one's Audio bit-rate, something in the range of 8kbps is near the top. Now, there are some other considerations:

             

            1.) some folk have problems with set-top players not handling anything above 7, all that well.

            2.) Robert Johnson tested PE and found the ultimate quality setting was somewhere around 7.8, IIRC. Most of his finding appear in articles on Muvipix..

             

            There are better encoders, and Hollywood uses these. Some allow up to 20 passes to squeeze the maximum out of each file. These, however, cost upward to the GNP of many small countries, and the folk, who run them have many years of experience at that level. They do nothing but transcodes day in, and day out.

             

            PE is likely to not have problems with other applications on your computer, so long as none overwrites the Adobe Main Concept CODEC (no guarantees with any other application). Only hang up can be with applications, that contain packet-writing modules, that seize control of one's burner(s). Adobe programs want 100% control of these, and usually throw errors, or just cannot find the burners, if one has something like Nero's InCD, or Roxio's DLA. These should not be installed (the packet-writing module).

             

            Unfortunately, I cannot directly comment on PE's encoding, as I use Adobe Encore for all of my Transcoding, and usually use it to Burn the DVD's.

             

            As far as the quality of a similar bit of video, there are two main things to consider: the optics and the sensors, with different cameras. It is likely not an issue of the bit-rate of the two files, but the cameras, that produced the footage.

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Seeking Information on PE4 Encoding and Encoders.
              Level 1

              Great information!!  Thanks for taking the time to respond.

               

              If anyone else can elaborate on the below message or add any more nuggets of knowledge, that would be great. Just to speculate on the below question, does a camcorder's smaller pixels get combined to make up 1 of the 345,600 pixels in a 720x480 frame?

               

              - I have a DVD of a youth football game made by another dad.  His camcorder was one of the best about 3 years ago and the DVD looks way better than what my camcorder can do.  GSpot says his DVD has a average bit rate of 8000 kb/sec  &  0.772 bits-pixel/frame (GSpot Quality measurement).  My DVD files have higher bit rate and bits-pixel/frame measurements than his, but his looks way better.  If the standard definition screen is 720x480 pixels, then there are a total of 345,600 pixels in a frame?  If my DCR-SR220 has 1,120,000 actual pixels at 4:3, then my camcorder should be well above the 345,600 pixels in a SD 720x480 frame?  I am sure there is more to it than this and that is what I am trying to find out.

              • 4. Re: Seeking Information on PE4 Encoding and Encoders.
                Level 1

                I came across a great article which answers my above question about why the other dad's video was better looking than mine, even though my Gspot numbers were better.  I add it here in case others read this thread with the same questions.

                 

                http://videoexpert.home.att.net/artic1/201res.htm