22 Replies Latest reply on Sep 14, 2008 1:47 PM by Newsgroup_User

    Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?

    thomasbricker Level 1
      So Im trying to use AP Divs to position my elements on my page.
      I keep hearing how great theyre supposed to be for layout of Dreamweaver pages.

      Thing is, can I put a background image into an APDiv and then tell that div to remain center-styled within the screen of the browser? If it's possible Im not seeing the way to make it happen.

      Why does Dreamweaver (the accepted industry standard for web design) have to be so cryptic?
      It is so convoluted its ridiculous.
      What Im trying to do should be achievable in seconds.
        • 1. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
          Level 7
          >> I keep hearing how great theyre supposed to be for layout of Dreamweaver
          >> pages.
          I can't imagine where you're hearing that. Virtually no one here will
          support that assertion. Just the opposite the overwhelming opinion here is
          that AD divs (aka Layers) should be used sparingly, never as a primary
          layout device and only when you thoroughly understand how they work. Sorry
          to say your underlying questions belies that notion.

          As to your question, centering an AP so it stays centered regardless of
          browser viewport size is, by itself, impossible. Again, someone who
          understood what AP actually means would already know that, no disrespect
          intended. Really!

          You could, in a sense, center an AP on the page by first wrapping it in a
          positioned container (div, table, etc.) but what's the point?

          --

          Walt


          "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
          news:gaf5e9$6r4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          > So Im trying to use AP Divs to position my elements on my page.
          > I keep hearing how great theyre supposed to be for layout of Dreamweaver
          > pages.
          >
          > Thing is, can I put a background image into an APDiv and then tell that
          > div to
          > remain center-styled within the screen of the browser? If it's possible Im
          > not
          > seeing the way to make it happen.
          >
          > Why does Dreamweaver (the accepted industry standard for web design) have
          > to
          > be so cryptic?
          > It is so convoluted its ridiculous.
          > What Im trying to do should be achievable in seconds.
          >


          • 2. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
            Level 7
            Further...

            > Why does Dreamweaver (the accepted industry standard for web design) have
            > to
            > be so cryptic?
            > It is so convoluted its ridiculous.
            > What Im trying to do should be achievable in seconds.

            Dreamweaver has been carefully designed to make it difficult to achieve the
            impossible. Go figure!
            --

            Walt


            "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
            news:gaf5e9$6r4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            > So Im trying to use AP Divs to position my elements on my page.
            > I keep hearing how great theyre supposed to be for layout of Dreamweaver
            > pages.
            >
            > Thing is, can I put a background image into an APDiv and then tell that
            > div to
            > remain center-styled within the screen of the browser? If it's possible Im
            > not
            > seeing the way to make it happen.
            >
            > Why does Dreamweaver (the accepted industry standard for web design) have
            > to
            > be so cryptic?
            > It is so convoluted its ridiculous.
            > What Im trying to do should be achievable in seconds.
            >


            • 3. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
              Level 7


              > What Im trying to do should be achievable in seconds.

              Here's an overly simple rewording of your question:

              You want to have an ABSOLUTELY POSITIONED division, that will be RELATIVELY
              POSITIONED in the center of the browser window.

              The AP Div is a renaming of the "layers" term used in older versions of
              dreamweaver.
              --
              Alan
              Adobe Community Expert, dreamweaver

              http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/



              • 4. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                Level 7
                "Walt F. Schaefer" <walt@waltswebworx.com> wrote in message
                news:gafdkr$eqg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                >>> I keep hearing how great theyre supposed to be for layout of Dreamweaver
                >>> pages.
                > I can't imagine where you're hearing that. Virtually no one here will
                > support that assertion. Just the opposite the overwhelming opinion here is
                > that AD divs (aka Layers) should be used sparingly, never as a primary
                > layout device and only when you thoroughly understand how they work. Sorry
                > to say your underlying questions belies that notion.
                >
                > As to your question, centering an AP so it stays centered regardless of
                > browser viewport size is, by itself, impossible. Again, someone who
                > understood what AP actually means would already know that, no disrespect
                > intended. Really!

                Hi Walt,

                What about this:

                div#myAP {
                width:700px;
                height:500px;
                position:absolute;
                top:50%;
                left:50%;
                margin-top:-250px;
                margin-left:-350px;
                }

                Unless I am misunderstanding the OP's question that should work the way he
                wants, isn't?


                --
                Thierry
                Articles and Tutorials: http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                --
                http://developer.yahoo.com/ helps you build applications and mashups

                • 5. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                  Level 7
                  If you say so. I'd like to play with that code, it looks interesting. Just
                  reading it I really don't follow the logic but I rarely use % for
                  positioning so it's really out of my experience. If it works, than obviously
                  I was wrong and I stand corrected. My apologies to the OP.

                  --

                  Walt


                  "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                  news:gaffk9$gkq$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                  > "Walt F. Schaefer" <walt@waltswebworx.com> wrote in message
                  > news:gafdkr$eqg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                  >>>> I keep hearing how great theyre supposed to be for layout of
                  >>>> Dreamweaver pages.
                  >> I can't imagine where you're hearing that. Virtually no one here will
                  >> support that assertion. Just the opposite the overwhelming opinion here
                  >> is that AD divs (aka Layers) should be used sparingly, never as a primary
                  >> layout device and only when you thoroughly understand how they work.
                  >> Sorry to say your underlying questions belies that notion.
                  >>
                  >> As to your question, centering an AP so it stays centered regardless of
                  >> browser viewport size is, by itself, impossible. Again, someone who
                  >> understood what AP actually means would already know that, no disrespect
                  >> intended. Really!
                  >
                  > Hi Walt,
                  >
                  > What about this:
                  >
                  > div#myAP {
                  > width:700px;
                  > height:500px;
                  > position:absolute;
                  > top:50%;
                  > left:50%;
                  > margin-top:-250px;
                  > margin-left:-350px;
                  > }
                  >
                  > Unless I am misunderstanding the OP's question that should work the way he
                  > wants, isn't?
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Thierry
                  > Articles and Tutorials: http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                  > --
                  > http://developer.yahoo.com/ helps you build applications and mashups


                  • 6. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                    Level 7
                    "Walt F. Schaefer" <walt@waltswebworx.com> wrote in message
                    news:gafh98$i7k$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > If you say so. I'd like to play with that code, it looks interesting. Just
                    > reading it I really don't follow the logic but I rarely use % for

                    Using 50% as top and left values places the top/left corner of the container
                    dead center. Then using negative margin (the values are equal to half the
                    dimensions of the element) moves the container into place. Because the
                    positioning in relation to the center of the viewport, the container should
                    saty centered no matter what.

                    But as you suggested, the OP should know that using AP elements is generally
                    not a good idea (obviously this depends on what he's trying to achieve).

                    As a side note, it is possible to use the exact same technique with a float
                    ;-)

                    --
                    Thierry
                    Articles and Tutorials: http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                    --
                    http://developer.yahoo.com/ helps you build applications and mashups

                    • 7. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                      Level 7
                      "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                      news:gaf5e9$6r4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                      > So Im trying to use AP Divs to position my elements on my page.
                      > I keep hearing how great theyre supposed to be for layout of Dreamweaver
                      > pages.
                      >
                      > Thing is, can I put a background image into an APDiv and then tell that
                      > div to
                      > remain center-styled within the screen of the browser? If it's possible Im
                      > not
                      > seeing the way to make it happen.
                      >
                      > Why does Dreamweaver (the accepted industry standard for web design) have
                      > to
                      > be so cryptic?
                      > It is so convoluted its ridiculous.
                      > What Im trying to do should be achievable in seconds.

                      AP DIVs are not the best approach, but it's easy to center one based on its
                      width. Assume your AP DIV is set to 600px wide and this is its rule in your
                      page's style sheet:

                      #APdiv1 {
                      position: absolute;
                      width: 600px;
                      left: 400px;
                      top: 100px;
                      }

                      You can center it by setting the left position to 50%, which places the left
                      edge of the DIV smack center in the window. Now all you need to do is move
                      it back to the left by half its width so that the center point of the DIV is
                      centered. To do that you use the margin-left property, giving it a negative
                      value equal to half the DIV's width. The resulting rule then would be:

                      #APdiv1 {
                      position: absolute;
                      width: 600px;
                      left: 50%;
                      margin-left: -300px;
                      top: 100px;
                      }


                      --
                      Al Sparber - PVII
                      http://www.projectseven.com
                      Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                      http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators


                      • 8. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                        thomasbricker Level 1
                        Thanks, everyone for your replies.

                        Perhaps I should clarify my objective a little.

                        The reason I set up this question was because of something I read in the Dreamweaver CS3 The Missing Manual book.
                        When reading about AP Divs, I thought maybe they have developed DW and the spooky world of html coding to the point where you can do a web layout in an almost WYSIWYG method (like every other Adobe app Ive been using for the last 20 years.)
                        Foolish assumption I suppose.
                        Why make something easy when you can make it nearly incomprehensible...

                        What Im trying to achieve is super simple.
                        I just want a main background, 1000 x 700, filled with a png, that I can position type or floating images on where ever the heck I want to put them. I want the background to center itself dynamically within the browser window and I want my floated elements to stay where I put them relative to the main background.
                        Not rocket science here.
                        I realize there must be a way to achieve this.
                        If AP Divs isnt it, what is?

                        I could achieve this very thing in my sleep using iWeb. (Could have designed my entire site in iWeb in the time it has taken to write this email)
                        Might do this if I cant get an answer to this ultra basic question in Dreamweaver.

                        All you DW pros out there must be thinking, what a dummy this guy is!
                        What can I say.
                        I come from a background of professional WYSIWYG apps.
                        Im used to getting what I want, visually.

                        Thanks again.
                        Cant wait for your answers.
                        • 9. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                          Level 7
                          > Foolish assumption I suppose.

                          Yes. Definitely. There is no WYSIWYG on the web, and won't be until there
                          is only one version of one browser running on one version of one computer
                          with one operating system and one size video screen with one graphics
                          subsystem driving it. See what I mean?

                          > I just want a main background, 1000 x 700, filled with a png, that I can
                          > position type or floating images on where ever the heck I want to put
                          > them.

                          You are already in the muck. A background image 1000x700 is much too large,
                          most likely. And positioning type over a background image is like trying to
                          nail jelly to the wall. Consider what will happen to your careful
                          positioning when someone resizes the text display in their browser, or when
                          they don't have the font that you have specified installed on their
                          computer.

                          > Not rocket science here.

                          That is correct, but there is a pound of bad judgment. Look - it's simple
                          to have elements on the page hold their relative positions as the browser
                          viewport expands and contracts, and you have been given two very acceptable
                          methods for doing that. But your scheme is deeply flawed.

                          > If AP Divs isnt it, what is?

                          No absolute positioning at all works just fine. But you have to understand
                          how to build pages leveraging the normal flow of the code.

                          > I could achieve this very thing in my sleep using iWeb. (Could have
                          > designed
                          > my entire site in iWeb in the time it has taken to write this email)

                          You use the word "achieve" in the loosest possible sense, but please do this
                          and come back here to post a link to the page you have created. We'll show
                          you how troublesome iWeb is.

                          > Im used to getting what I want, visually.

                          Then the web is not the place for you. Or maybe it is, if you only use PDF
                          files....

                          --
                          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                          Adobe Community Expert
                          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                          ==================
                          http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                          ==================


                          "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                          news:gag50o$996$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                          > Thanks, everyone for your replies.
                          >
                          > Perhaps I should clarify my objective a little.
                          >
                          > The reason I set up this question was because of something I read in the
                          > Dreamweaver CS3 The Missing Manual book.
                          > When reading about AP Divs, I thought maybe they have developed DW and the
                          > spooky world of html coding to the point where you can do a web layout in
                          > an
                          > almost WYSIWYG method (like every other Adobe app Ive been using for the
                          > last
                          > 20 years.)
                          > Foolish assumption I suppose.
                          > Why make something easy when you can make it nearly incomprehensible...
                          >
                          > What Im trying to achieve is super simple.
                          > I just want a main background, 1000 x 700, filled with a png, that I can
                          > position type or floating images on where ever the heck I want to put
                          > them. I
                          > want the background to center itself dynamically within the browser window
                          > and
                          > I want my floated elements to stay where I put them relative to the main
                          > background.
                          > Not rocket science here.
                          > I realize there must be a way to achieve this.
                          > If AP Divs isnt it, what is?
                          >
                          > I could achieve this very thing in my sleep using iWeb. (Could have
                          > designed
                          > my entire site in iWeb in the time it has taken to write this email)
                          > Might do this if I cant get an answer to this ultra basic question in
                          > Dreamweaver.
                          >
                          > All you DW pros out there must be thinking, what a dummy this guy is!
                          > What can I say.
                          > I come from a background of professional WYSIWYG apps.
                          > Im used to getting what I want, visually.
                          >
                          > Thanks again.
                          > Cant wait for your answers.
                          >

                          • 10. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                            Level 7
                            On 13 Sep 2008 in macromedia.dreamweaver, Murray *ACE* wrote:

                            > There is no WYSIWYG on the web, and won't be until there is only one
                            > version of one browser running on one version of one computer with
                            > one operating system and one size video screen with one graphics
                            > subsystem driving it.

                            You are Bill Gates and I claim my $5.

                            --
                            Joe Makowiec
                            http://makowiec.net/
                            Email: http://makowiec.net/contact.php
                            • 11. Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                              thomasbricker Level 1
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                              > Foolish assumption I suppose.

                              Yes. Definitely. There is no WYSIWYG on the web, and won't be until there
                              is only one version of one browser running on one version of one computer
                              with one operating system and one size video screen with one graphics
                              subsystem driving it. See what I mean?

                              > I just want a main background, 1000 x 700, filled with a png, that I can
                              > position type or floating images on where ever the heck I want to put
                              > them.

                              You are already in the muck. A background image 1000x700 is much too large,
                              most likely. And positioning type over a background image is like trying to
                              nail jelly to the wall. Consider what will happen to your careful
                              positioning when someone resizes the text display in their browser, or when
                              they don't have the font that you have specified installed on their
                              computer.

                              > Not rocket science here.

                              That is correct, but there is a pound of bad judgment. Look - it's simple
                              to have elements on the page hold their relative positions as the browser
                              viewport expands and contracts, and you have been given two very acceptable
                              methods for doing that. But your scheme is deeply flawed.

                              > If AP Divs isnt it, what is?

                              No absolute positioning at all works just fine. But you have to understand
                              how to build pages leveraging the normal flow of the code.

                              > I could achieve this very thing in my sleep using iWeb. (Could have
                              > designed
                              > my entire site in iWeb in the time it has taken to write this email)

                              You use the word "achieve" in the loosest possible sense, but please do this
                              and come back here to post a link to the page you have created. We'll show
                              you how troublesome iWeb is.

                              > Im used to getting what I want, visually.

                              Then the web is not the place for you. Or maybe it is, if you only use PDF
                              files....

                              --
                              Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                              Adobe Community Expert
                              (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                              ==================
                              http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                              http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                              ==================


                              "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                              news:gag50o$996$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                              > Thanks, everyone for your replies.
                              >
                              > Perhaps I should clarify my objective a little.
                              >
                              > The reason I set up this question was because of something I read in the
                              > Dreamweaver CS3 The Missing Manual book.
                              > When reading about AP Divs, I thought maybe they have developed DW and the
                              > spooky world of html coding to the point where you can do a web layout in
                              > an
                              > almost WYSIWYG method (like every other Adobe app Ive been using for the
                              > last
                              > 20 years.)
                              > Foolish assumption I suppose.
                              > Why make something easy when you can make it nearly incomprehensible...
                              >
                              > What Im trying to achieve is super simple.
                              > I just want a main background, 1000 x 700, filled with a png, that I can
                              > position type or floating images on where ever the heck I want to put
                              > them. I
                              > want the background to center itself dynamically within the browser window
                              > and
                              > I want my floated elements to stay where I put them relative to the main
                              > background.
                              > Not rocket science here.
                              > I realize there must be a way to achieve this.
                              > If AP Divs isnt it, what is?
                              >
                              > I could achieve this very thing in my sleep using iWeb. (Could have
                              > designed
                              > my entire site in iWeb in the time it has taken to write this email)
                              > Might do this if I cant get an answer to this ultra basic question in
                              > Dreamweaver.
                              >
                              > All you DW pros out there must be thinking, what a dummy this guy is!
                              > What can I say.
                              > I come from a background of professional WYSIWYG apps.
                              > Im used to getting what I want, visually.
                              >
                              > Thanks again.
                              > Cant wait for your answers.
                              >



                              And I anticipated the patronizing responses. No disappointment here.
                              Nearly all Adobe apps are cross platform used on hundreds of diff configs of hardware.
                              Funny thing is, when it gets to the printer, the piece prints the same.

                              Anyone have any constructive recommendations to achieve what Im after?
                              • 12. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                Level 7
                                Patronizing? Hardly.

                                The fact is that you want something you cannot achieve on the web.

                                --
                                Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                Adobe Community Expert
                                (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                ==================
                                http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                ==================


                                "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                news:gaglj9$q13$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                >
                                quote:

                                Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                                > > Foolish assumption I suppose.
                                >
                                > Yes. Definitely. There is no WYSIWYG on the web, and won't be until
                                > there
                                > is only one version of one browser running on one version of one computer
                                > with one operating system and one size video screen with one graphics
                                > subsystem driving it. See what I mean?
                                >
                                > > I just want a main background, 1000 x 700, filled with a png, that I can
                                > > position type or floating images on where ever the heck I want to put
                                > > them.
                                >
                                > You are already in the muck. A background image 1000x700 is much too
                                > large,
                                > most likely. And positioning type over a background image is like trying
                                > to
                                > nail jelly to the wall. Consider what will happen to your careful
                                > positioning when someone resizes the text display in their browser, or
                                > when
                                > they don't have the font that you have specified installed on their
                                > computer.
                                >
                                > > Not rocket science here.
                                >
                                > That is correct, but there is a pound of bad judgment. Look - it's simple
                                > to have elements on the page hold their relative positions as the browser
                                > viewport expands and contracts, and you have been given two very
                                > acceptable
                                > methods for doing that. But your scheme is deeply flawed.
                                >
                                > > If AP Divs isnt it, what is?
                                >
                                > No absolute positioning at all works just fine. But you have to
                                > understand
                                > how to build pages leveraging the normal flow of the code.
                                >
                                > > I could achieve this very thing in my sleep using iWeb. (Could have
                                > > designed
                                > > my entire site in iWeb in the time it has taken to write this email)
                                >
                                > You use the word "achieve" in the loosest possible sense, but please do
                                > this
                                > and come back here to post a link to the page you have created. We'll
                                > show
                                > you how troublesome iWeb is.
                                >
                                > > Im used to getting what I want, visually.
                                >
                                > Then the web is not the place for you. Or maybe it is, if you only use
                                > PDF
                                > files....
                                >
                                > --
                                > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                > Adobe Community Expert
                                > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                > ==================
                                > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                > ==================
                                >
                                >
                                > "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                > news:gag50o$996$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                > > Thanks, everyone for your replies.
                                > >
                                > > Perhaps I should clarify my objective a little.
                                > >
                                > > The reason I set up this question was because of something I read in the
                                > > Dreamweaver CS3 The Missing Manual book.
                                > > When reading about AP Divs, I thought maybe they have developed DW and
                                > > the
                                > > spooky world of html coding to the point where you can do a web layout
                                > > in
                                > > an
                                > > almost WYSIWYG method (like every other Adobe app Ive been using for the
                                > > last
                                > > 20 years.)
                                > > Foolish assumption I suppose.
                                > > Why make something easy when you can make it nearly incomprehensible...
                                > >
                                > > What Im trying to achieve is super simple.
                                > > I just want a main background, 1000 x 700, filled with a png, that I can
                                > > position type or floating images on where ever the heck I want to put
                                > > them. I
                                > > want the background to center itself dynamically within the browser
                                > > window
                                > > and
                                > > I want my floated elements to stay where I put them relative to the main
                                > > background.
                                > > Not rocket science here.
                                > > I realize there must be a way to achieve this.
                                > > If AP Divs isnt it, what is?
                                > >
                                > > I could achieve this very thing in my sleep using iWeb. (Could have
                                > > designed
                                > > my entire site in iWeb in the time it has taken to write this email)
                                > > Might do this if I cant get an answer to this ultra basic question in
                                > > Dreamweaver.
                                > >
                                > > All you DW pros out there must be thinking, what a dummy this guy is!
                                > > What can I say.
                                > > I come from a background of professional WYSIWYG apps.
                                > > Im used to getting what I want, visually.
                                > >
                                > > Thanks again.
                                > > Cant wait for your answers.
                                > >
                                >
                                >

                                > And I anticipated the patronizing responses. No disappointment here.
                                >
                                >

                                • 13. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                  Level 7
                                  .oO(thomasbricker)

                                  > And I anticipated the patronizing responses. No disappointment here.

                                  There was nothing patronizing, but just the naked truth. What you want
                                  can't be done in the Web, it's that simple.

                                  If you think you can do it with another editor, sure, try it and post
                                  the result. Then we can show you how fragile your layout is and how
                                  easily it will break for many users with different browser settings.

                                  The reason why WYSIWYG is absolutely _impossible_ in the Web is not
                                  because DW lacks such features, but simply because the nature of the Web
                                  forbids it. HTML is not DTP! You have to accept that and think more
                                  flexible or the Web is not the right place for you, as said before.

                                  Micha
                                  • 14. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                    bregent Most Valuable Participant
                                    >Nearly all Adobe apps are cross platform used on hundreds of diff configs of hardware.
                                    >Funny thing is, when it gets to the printer, the piece prints the same.

                                    That's a completely different scenario. In those cases, the software in question is running on the PC. If you change the target printer or page size, it can adapt or you can manually make changes to make it look good. HTML/CSS is completely different. Once you publish the web page, it's out there and you are at the mercy of the rendering of the particular browser the visitor is using. There are an infinite number of browser/platform/resolution/viewport/text size/etc combination's that could be used.

                                    Try creating a print file for a DTP application for a specific printer and page size and then print that file on a different target. The result will not be good. Unfortunately, there is no way for software such as DW to produce code automatically that looks good in all targets - there are just too may permutations including the particular layout you are creating. You still need to design a bit by trial and error, and that requires the basic knowledge of html, css and layout methods.

                                    >And I anticipated the patronizing responses.

                                    That's the typical reply we get here from users that don't get the response they were hoping to get. Sorry, but it was the plain truth. If iWeb works better for you, then stick with it.
                                    • 15. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                      Level 7
                                      THE WEB IS NOT PRINT.

                                      You can quote me.

                                      --
                                      Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                      Adobe Community Expert
                                      (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                      ==================
                                      http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                      http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                      ==================


                                      "bregent" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                      news:gah40s$bc9$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      > >Nearly all Adobe apps are cross platform used on hundreds of diff configs
                                      > >of
                                      > hardware.
                                      > >Funny thing is, when it gets to the printer, the piece prints the same.
                                      >
                                      > That's a completely different scenario. In those cases, the software in
                                      > question is running on the PC. If you change the target printer or page
                                      > size,
                                      > it can adapt or you can manually make changes to make it look good.
                                      > HTML/CSS is
                                      > completely different. Once you publish the web page, it's out there and
                                      > you are
                                      > at the mercy of the rendering of the particular browser the visitor is
                                      > using.
                                      > There are an infinite number of browser/platform/resolution/viewport/text
                                      > size/etc combination's that could be used.
                                      >
                                      > Try creating a print file for a DTP application for a specific printer and
                                      > page size and then print that file on a different target. The result will
                                      > not
                                      > be good. Unfortunately, there is no way for software such as DW to produce
                                      > code
                                      > automatically that looks good in all targets - there are just too may
                                      > permutations including the particular layout you are creating. You still
                                      > need
                                      > to design a bit by trial and error, and that requires the basic knowledge
                                      > of
                                      > html, css and layout methods.
                                      >
                                      > >And I anticipated the patronizing responses.
                                      >
                                      > That's the typical reply we get here from users that don't get the
                                      > response
                                      > they were hoping to get. Sorry, but it was the plain truth. If iWeb works
                                      > better for you, then stick with it.
                                      >

                                      • 16. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                        thomasbricker Level 1
                                        Ok. Got the point guys.
                                        The Web is not print.

                                        With all the webs wonderful eccentricities how would you guys take a lousy center styled picture and float html text on it where you want it to be?
                                        • 17. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                          Level 7
                                          Like this:
                                          http://www.projectseven.com/testing/lousy-picture/

                                          --
                                          Al Sparber - PVII
                                          http://www.projectseven.com
                                          Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                          http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators


                                          "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                          news:gahtn2$7as$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          > Ok. Got the point guys.
                                          > The Web is not print.
                                          >
                                          > With all the webs wonderful eccentricities how would you guys take a lousy
                                          > center styled picture and float html text on it where you want it to be?

                                          • 18. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                            Cory C. Level 1
                                            > Anyone have any constructive recommendations to achieve what Im after?

                                            Al Sparber - PVII certainly has it right it seems to me.

                                            I went with his idea and varied it some to produce this:

                                            http://www.pseudosite.com/test/balanced/index.html

                                            You'll need to add to the "margin-left" by whatever the padding is set to.


                                            • 19. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                              thomasbricker Level 1
                                              Thanks guys.
                                              What you are showing me is what Im after.
                                              But did you do this in code or did you use AP Divs inside of AP Divs?
                                              How did you actually do it in the DW interface.

                                              What Im doing is supposed to look like this:
                                              http://web.me.com/thomasbricker/Thomas_Bricker/Thomas_Bricker.html

                                              I did this in the "dreaded" iWeb.
                                              Ace, does this layout fall apart and look like garbage with everything in the wrong place on your set up?
                                              • 20. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                                Level 7
                                                "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                news:gajjk3$3un$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                > Thanks guys.
                                                > What you are showing me is what Im after.
                                                > But did you do this in code or did you use AP Divs inside of AP Divs?
                                                > How did you actually do it in the DW interface.
                                                >
                                                > What Im doing is supposed to look like this:
                                                > http://web.me.com/thomasbricker/Thomas_Bricker/Thomas_Bricker.html


                                                To ctreate this, there is no need to use AP divs.
                                                Going through simple tutorials about layouts should help you keep things
                                                simple.


                                                --
                                                Thierry
                                                Articles and Tutorials: http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                                --
                                                http://developer.yahoo.com/ helps you build applications and mashups

                                                • 21. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                                  Level 7
                                                  "thomasbricker" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                  news:gajjk3$3un$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  > Thanks guys.
                                                  > What you are showing me is what Im after.
                                                  > But did you do this in code or did you use AP Divs inside of AP Divs?

                                                  The markup and the CSS are in the page's content:
                                                  http://www.projectseven.com/testing/lousy-picture/

                                                  > How did you actually do it in the DW interface.

                                                  Only the most rudimentary of layouts can be done using the Dreamweaver
                                                  interface.

                                                  > What Im doing is supposed to look like this:
                                                  > http://web.me.com/thomasbricker/Thomas_Bricker/Thomas_Bricker.html
                                                  >
                                                  > I did this in the "dreaded" iWeb.
                                                  > Ace, does this layout fall apart and look like garbage with everything in
                                                  > the
                                                  > wrong place on your set up?

                                                  Your choices would seem to be to take Thierry's advice and start reading
                                                  some good tutorials or simply continue using iWeb.


                                                  --
                                                  Al Sparber - PVII
                                                  http://www.projectseven.com
                                                  Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                                  http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators



                                                  • 22. Re: Centering a AP Div. Can it be done?
                                                    Level 7
                                                    .oO(thomasbricker)

                                                    >Thanks guys.
                                                    > What you are showing me is what Im after.
                                                    > But did you do this in code or did you use AP Divs inside of AP Divs?
                                                    > How did you actually do it in the DW interface.
                                                    >
                                                    > What Im doing is supposed to look like this:
                                                    > http://web.me.com/thomasbricker/Thomas_Bricker/Thomas_Bricker.html
                                                    >
                                                    > I did this in the "dreaded" iWeb.

                                                    [...]
                                                    <div style="float: left; margin-left: 0px; position: relative;
                                                    width: 1000px; z-index: 0; " id="nav_layer">
                                                    <div style="height: 0px; line-height: 0px; "
                                                    class="bumper"> </div>
                                                    <div style="clear: both; height: 0px; line-height: 0px; "
                                                    class="spacer"> </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div style="float: left; height: 0px; line-height: 0px;
                                                    margin-left: 0px; position: relative; width: 1000px; z-index: 10; "
                                                    id="header_layer">
                                                    <div style="height: 0px; line-height: 0px; "
                                                    class="bumper"> </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    [...]

                                                    No comment.

                                                    > Ace, does this layout fall apart and look like garbage with everything in the
                                                    >wrong place on your set up?

                                                    If you increase the font size some steps - yes. Not as bad as expected,
                                                    but it breaks. Additionally the page elements are in totally illogical
                                                    order. "Click on the links above" - well, with CSS off the links are
                                                    below ...

                                                    With just a little more knowledge and better markup both problems could
                                                    easily be avoided. The entire layout is very simple, there's absolutely
                                                    _no_ reason to use any absolutely positioned elements here.

                                                    Micha