Still unclear about merging in WebHelp (runtime)

[VeryDullScreenName]

This is my first venture into the world of RoboHelp and I have the following query:

We have an application which is made up from a framework and one or more plug-in modules (which can be supplied at a later date).

The framework help is installed on the customers PC by default and the plug-in help is installed when they buy/install a plug-in.

Is there a way to present all the installed help under the framework help without including dead links to missing plug-ins?

Customer A has framework and plug-in X so sees these in the TOC, etc.

Customer B buys plug-in Y and next time the help is opened sees plug-in X and Y in the TOC etc.

I know this can be achieved with CHM help but we are looking at using WebHelp.

I've seen the references to the 'Grainge method' but I believe this to be a build-time merge solution rather than a run-time one.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

[RoboColum_n_]

Hi and welcome to the RH community.

This is a lot easier to accomplish with CHMs. As Webhelp is centrally stored and accessed by lots of users with potentially lots of different plug ins, this creates a number of different problems. My first question would be where will the webhelp be installed? If on a central server that all clients would access, I don't think you could "hide" portions of it for certain users. If you installed the webhelp on a customer intranet, you could ship the relevent sections of the help as they buy a plug in. Provided you use the structure in Peter's article this should work.

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Read the RoboColum(n) for mutterings on RoboHelp, Technical Communication Suite and technical communication.

[VeryDullScreenName]

OK, I downloaded the merge example zip archive and rebuilt all the projects again on my PC.

Works as expected:

Child 1. Child 2, Child 3 all listed in the TOC

If I remove the folder (from the mergedProjects folder) for Child 2 then Child 1 and Child 3 are still displayed in the TOC, perfect!

I created a similar set of projects from scratch (following the merge tutorial) and these behave slightly differently:

If I remove Child 2 then only Child 1 is displayed in the TOC and I lose Child 3 as well...

Can't quite see what the difference is in the projects compared to the example though.

Any pointers?

Thanks

[RoboWizard]

Hi there

I'm thinking that perhaps this has to do with your Table of Contents. Assuming all the merges are at the same TOC level (which is what you want) Perhaps give this a try.

Add a page to the TOC that appears at the bottom and follows the last merge reference. See if that changes anything.

Cheers... Rick

Click here for Adobe Authorized Captivate and RoboHelp HTML Training Click here for the SorcerStone Blog Click here for RoboHelp and Captivate eBooks

[VeryDullScreenName]

No sorry, adding a topic to the end of the merge references in the parent TOC doesn't change the displayed behaviour.

The new reference is displayed at the end of the TOC in all cases but I still lose the merge references after the removed one.

Thanks.

[Peter Grainge]

You are wrong in your first post as the method merges the outputs at run time. There is no merge at build time option.

You also say that the demo works but not when you set it up yourself. Big clue there.

See how the different TOCs are referenced in the parent. All should be the same.

Then you generate all the projects remembering to point each one to its own folder. It is very easy to point child2 to child1's folder. Make sure each child folder under mergedProjects has the right output.

I have a feeling you might be misdescribing the problem so some screenshots would help. Insert them using the camera icon.

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[VeryDullScreenName]

OK, I can see that the merge works in an installed environment:

In the example, if the folder for child_2 is missing (not installed) then the parent help shows child_1 and child_3 which is exactly what I want (different options will be installed on different PCs).

In my project set, if child_2 is missing I don't see child_3 either.

I've attached my projects as a zip and would be most grateful if someone could point out the difference that is stopping my effort from working like the example.

As I've said before this is my first venture into RoboHelp and while I could just take the example and build on that, I just know down the line I'll break it and have no idea how to get it back.

Thanks in advance,

Ian

[VeryDullScreenName]

Well, that worked well...

Just noticed you can't upload zips.

Anyone willing to have a look via email?

Otherwise it's back to more head scratching.

Thanks.

[RoboWizard]

Hi there

You could try the old E-Mail TomTrickery. Zip it up, rename as TXT extension, upload the TXT (which is really a zip). Then we downoad the TXT and rename back to Zip and unpack it.

Other than that, use a free service such as YouSendIt.com. Just send it to your E-Mail address and post the link it creates where we may download the file. Come to think of it, that's probably the best route given that the forum moderators have to approve all uploads. Until approved, we see there is an attachment but it says queued for a long time.

Cheers... Rick

Click here for Adobe Authorized Captivate and RoboHelp HTML Training Click here for the SorcerStone Blog Click here for RoboHelp and Captivate eBooks

[VeryDullScreenName]

Well that took a bit of time...

Our IT didn't allow access to www.yousendit.com so had to arrange temporary access before I could continue.

The link to the source zip is: https://www.yousendit.com/download/dVlyZGVaMHdsamRMWEE9PQ

This contains parent and three children.

Once all compiled the parent shows "Parent Topic" before redirecting to the first child. That works.

The three children all appear in the TOC and I can open any one of them. That works.

If I delete (remove) child 2 then child 3 also disappears from the TOC. This does not work.

Could someone point the new guy in the direction of his obvious mistake(s)?

Many thanks,

Ian

[Peter Grainge]

I assume this post is in response to Rick's offer to look at the project for you. Before he does that, there is something in this post that makes me wonder if I have identified what you are doing wrong.

The parent will have references to the three child projects. You never delete those.

If you want an output that contains just child one and three, you would take a copy of the generated output with all the children and then delete the folder for child two. Because that child is not then in that output, its TOC will not appear.

Is that what you are getting wrong?

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[VeryDullScreenName]

I build all four projects (parent and 3 children) I take a copy of this output and effectively this would be a full installation on a customers PC. The customer sees 3 children in the TOC.

I then take another copy of the same output and remove child 2's folder, this becomes a partial installation on a customers PC. The customer sees child 1 and child 3 in the TOC.

This works with your merge example projects but with my attempt removing child 2's folder from the installed copy also causes child 3 not to appear in the TOC.

I'm not making any changes to the source, just 'installing' different combinations of the output on different 'customers' PCs.

Like I say, your's works mine doesn't and at the present I don't see the difference.

It's probably staring me in the face but I lack experience at the moment.

Thanks,

Ian

[Peter Grainge]

How big is the zip file containing all the source projects?

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[VeryDullScreenName]

The archive is just under 3MB.

The projects each contain a single topic nothing else.

Thanks

[Peter Grainge]

Send it via my site and include a link to this thread.

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[Peter Grainge]

You said my demo works. Is that the one from the RH7 article on my site or the one from the RH8 article on Adobe's site?

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[Peter Grainge]

It should not affect merged help in this way but I have found if you deselect the Mark of the Web check box and regenerate, the output then works as it should.

Please confirm that this works for you.

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[VeryDullScreenName]

Indeed if I un-tick 'Mark of the Web' then my project(s) behave as expected.

However, your merge project has this ticked and I rebuilt those and they worked anyway.

There still seems to be a fundamental difference.

[VeryDullScreenName]

The zip archive I downloaded was called 'rh7_merge' but I don't remember from where.

[Peter Grainge]

... and did the workaround fix it for you?

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[VeryDullScreenName]

Yes, un-ticking 'Mark of the Web' makes my project work in the required manner, which is the same as yours with 'Mark of the Web' ticked.

The downside to this is that I now get the 'blocked content' warning every time I open the help.

Any ideas why the difference between the two?

Thanks,

[Peter Grainge]

There are three ways of allowing web pages to run locally.

- Go into IE settings and tick Allow Active Content to Run from Files on PC.

- Use the Mark of the Web (Google will tell you more)

- Use Firefox.

For your use, any are OK provided your IT people allow you to change the IE settings, otherwise you only have the last two options except that in RH8, there is an issue with Mark of the Web and merged webhelp.

For your users this should not be a problem as you would not use Mark of the Web in the real output as it would be going to a server.

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[VeryDullScreenName]

Hi, sorry for the long pause but other projects got in the way again.

As a point to note I'm using WebHelp but the final output (at present) will be installed on local PCs (with the application) rather than handled over the Internet via a server.

When you say "there is an issue with Mark of the Web and merged webhelp" is what I'm experiencing "the issue"?

Should I put a support question into Adobe so they can fix it?

Other than that, thanks for all the help and I'll mark this as answered tomorrow (all being well).

Thanks again.

[Peter Grainge]

WebHelp is intended to run from a server. If installed locally you may encounter problems with links to PDF files, is that an issue for you. If not, then you could install the WebHelp locally provided you use Mark of the Web.

If you only install some of the child projects, the merge should still work. The fact that it does not when you use RH8 is because of a bug that I have reported. You should do the same by going to http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

I don't think there is any point in going to Support because all they will do is confirm this and submit a bug report themselves.

Until the bug is fixed, if you use Mark of the Web (which you must if you install locally) then you cannot delete child projects without breaking the help.

The solutions are:

1. Install the WebHelp on a server
2. Use CHMs or AIR help
3. Change the users IE settings. That is only possible if they are in an environment where the system administrator can make the required change and is willing to do so.
4. Use Firefox rather than IE. Again, that depends on the control you have over the environment.

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See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

[VeryDullScreenName]

Back again, so much to do so little time to sleep...

I was thinking of going the chm route but the 'powers to be' think it looks a bit dated.

If I change to Adobe AIR is the merging process the same, do I need a particular folder layout in the generated packages?

Any good tutorials on AIR and merging (or anything else for that matter)?

Many thanks,

Ian