32 Replies Latest reply on May 12, 2009 7:27 PM by kentRda

    PRE7 critical lack of resources crash


      I am running Pre7 on a Dell machine to the following spec. Intel Dual Core 2.4GHz, 4Gig Ram, 300gig Sata array plus two external USB2 hard drives. GForce 9600GT Vid card. I have been trying to edit AVCHD vid from a sony camcorder. I have had some success with short films and performance has been improved by setting up different scratch discs for capture and saves. I have been capturing to the SATA array but saving the project to one of the external drives. I have been burning projects to DVD and BluRay using an LG internal BD burner. In most case if I can create a project I have been able to render it and burn with few problems.


      My challenge is to handle larger projects EG 2 hours of AVCHD from a recent vacation. All is well for a while but then I get an error message about shortage of system resources followed by a crash. I have been monitoring system performance in task manager which tells me I have half of my RAM available. Processors run up to max at times but there is nothing unusual about that and I just wait for things to settle down before moviing on. I don't understand what resource I have run out of. This is driving me nuts so any suggestions would be welcome. I am prepared to buy a new higher spec system if it will fix the problem but will it  ???



        • 1. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
          Paul_LS Level 4

          I think, quite simply you can not edit an AVCHD project of this size without trouble. From reading other forums, and from the editors I have used, no non-linear editing program currently can. The only one that can come close to it is Sony Vegas 8.1 a true 64 bit application. I have edited quite complex AVCHD projects of over an hour with Vegas successfully. With PE7 I usually keep my projects to around half an hour... sometimes a little more.


          If you look at your Page File usage you will see this climb... once it gets to around 1.5Gig with 2Gig of physical RAM being used you will start to get the warnings and then a crash.


          Best to work your project in small chucks,just bringing them together in a master project prior to burning. There will be a slight impact on quality having to export, import and re-export but it will save a lot of headaches.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
            UK31248 Level 1

            Thanks for that. I only have Elements not full Premiere so can I combine projects? I have never tried it so would you mind explaining how to do it. If for example I have two projects I believe I need to export one  as an AVI file and then import it and add it to the second project but I can't see how to do it. Also this will lose quality. I have a BluRay burner and was hoping to be able to create large projects in PRE7 and burn direct to BluRay discs. I have tried it with a small project and the result was great. Not much point having 25GB BluRay media at £3 a go when I can only use a small fraction of it though.


            Thanks for your help



            • 3. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
              Paul_LS Level 4

              Yes a good point on wanting to get your monies worth on the Blu-ray discs,,, particuarly what they cost here in the UK.


              Regarding combining projects... bascially you do as you say for sdandard definition projects, but as you are working with an AVCHD high definition project, instead of exporting as DV-AVI export using the high definition H.264 project preset. Bring these HD files back into a new AVCHD project and burn to Blu-ray disc.

              • 4. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                UK31248 Level 1

                Thanks again. How do I do the export?  The only way I can see is via the share tab and save to a folder using the H.264 preset, is that correct. What I have in mind is to do each scene in this way with transitions and titles but no menu markers. Once I have done all the scene I can open scene one and import the others to it. Hopefully I will then be able to add menu markers, render and burn.

                • 5. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                  Paul_LS Level 4

                  Yes via the Share tab, Personal Computer>MPEG>H.264 1080i... 1920 or 1440 dependant on your project preset. As you say export all your videos and bring them into a new project, PE7 can handle "straight" video files better than clips with effects, transitions etc. Then add menu markers and burn to Blu-ray.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                    UK31248 Level 1

                    Thanks I let you know how I get on.

                    • 7. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash

                      As I understand it, a 32 bit OS allocates 4GB of VIRTUAL memory PER APPLICATION, split 50/50 between the app and the system.  This is entirely independent of how much physical RAM is installed.  More RAM just means faster response.


                      I am not at all sure what the memory numbers in Task Manager really mean for any given application.  It is my experience that when Task Manager reports 1.5GB in a 32 bit OS, all bets are off and trouble is likely.  In my Vista x64 installation, I have seen it approach 2GB without incident.  But since PE is a 32 bit app, I doubt it can go much above that.



                      • 8. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                        Paul_LS Level 4

                        Yes, that is what I understood Paul. As you say Task Manager readings are not application specific. All I notice is that when physical memory usage and page file memory usage sum to about 3.5GB (I assume this is total for OS and application as Task Manager does not differentiate) the memory alarms start and PE7 will soon crash. Only way to avoid it is to close the application and re-open it. PE7 then gives up the memory and you can continue. Problem is with AVCHD and large projects it soon climbs. Having said that Adobe have improved the memory mangement of PE7, they had to get AVCHD to work. Let's hope there is further improvement in subsquent releases.

                        • 9. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                          UK31248 Level 1

                          Last night I tried out the suggestions. I created 4 separate AVCHD projects of up to 15 minutes duration complete with titles and transitions but no menu markers. These were exported as MPEG H.264 1080 x 1920. I then created a new project and imported the files one by one. This worked fine up to a point but as I added each imported "clip" to the project instead of showing separately as a clip on the sceneline it just welded itself to the end of the project. I was able to add menu marker at any point I wanted but could make no further edits. I have seen this before when adding clips to a project that had be set up with the wrong resolution but in this case the resolution of the project was the same as the clip. Any suggestions.?

                          • 10. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                            Paul_LS Level 4

                            The files you exported would have been stereo and not 5.1 surround sound (PE7 does not support 5.1 audio export). Did you select the stereo project preset and not the 5,1 audio one. Whatever project audio preset you select the first three tracks will have that audio. If you insert the "different" audio type to the project it will go to track 4 and will not be visible in the Sceneline mode. If you change to Timeline mode you will see all the clips on track 4. So the solution is to either select the stereo project preset or work in Timeline mode.

                            • 11. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                              UK31248 Level 1

                              Thanks I'll try it tonight.

                              • 12. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                UK31248 Level 1

                                Have been beavering away for the last week and despite a few crashes have completed by vacation epic. I ended up with 12 clips which I assembled into the final movie of aroun 90 minutes duration. I burned it to a BluRay disc overnight. It came in at 24Gb so fitted without compression. The result is awsome picture quality even on my 46in TV. I can't thank you enough for the advice it has restored my motivation to make movies which was at a very low ebb. I can now concentrate on improving my editing techniques rather than simple getting the software to stand up.


                                Two quick questions


                                1. When I join a number of scenes together and then play back the finished movie many but not all scenes start with a millisecond or two of still image before animation starts so its a bit jerky. Is this down to the Pre7, the camera I.E should I delete the first second of each clip or something else?

                                2.Even with small movies playback in Pre7 in very poor. Audio is fine but Video is very jerky or stops all together. Any suggestions or do I just need a better PC?


                                Many Thanks

                                • 13. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                  Paul_LS Level 4

                                  Glad to hear you managed to burn a successful (full) Blu-ray disc. Not sure why you get the pauses, I assume these are at the point where you join the various clips that you have exported... could be something to do with the frame format of the compressed video. I guess you could try to cut a little but I am not sure if this will help. Maybe you could try having a cross fade between the clips or have a second or two of black video at the beginning and end of your clips and then overlap the clips on different tracks so the black is not seen in the final video.


                                  Regarding your playback from the timeline. All you can do is render the timeline to get smooth playback (hitting the Enter key), otherwise you need a more powerful quad core processor.

                                  • 14. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                    paulgoelz Level 1

                                    To answer your quick question #1.... my guess is that there is some sort of transition between the clips that requires the in/out points to be inset by at least the transition duration.  If there is a transition and the clips are used full length and butted together, the transition will cause a freeze frame for the duration of the transition.



                                    • 15. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                      Paul_LS Level 4

                                      Yes, good point Paul. If there is infact a transition with no material trimmed from each clip you will see a freeze frame during the transition.

                                      • 16. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                        UK31248 Level 1

                                        Thanks for the input guys. What is the effect of rendering the timeline? What is it rendered as and can I still edit in the same way after rendering? I'm a bit of a quality freek so I don't want to take away from the quality of the final product

                                        • 17. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                          Paul_LS Level 4

                                          When you hit the Enter key on your keyboard to render the timeline PE7 will convert the AVCHD file to a temporary MPEG2 so when the timeline is played this MPEG2 file is played back... it takes a lot less computer resources to playback MPEG2 and so the playback will be much smoother. Once rendered the red line above the AVCHD clip will become green. If you do further editing the line will turn red again indicating that the section that has been edited needs rendering again.

                                          Note this does not effect the final output, when you export the timeline will be rendered/transcoded to whatever export format you choose.

                                          • 18. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                            kentRda Level 1


                                            I'm speaking from experience - an experience just like yours'. I was running PE7 on a dual-core processor with 4GB of memory, and was trying to process 2 hours worth of AVCHD video. Simply put, that much AVCHD video is more than your computer and memory can handle.   Remember, even if you trim back a single clip by a couple of seconds, PE and your computer must completely reorganize the entire timeline and all the data in it.  Here's a good analogy:  'Let's say that you want to take one or two 6' stripes out of a highway that goes all the way from San Fran to Miami. Then, after you take those two stripes out of the highway, you want to reorganize all the rest of the remaining stripes in the highway, for the total distance, so that every remaining stripe is an equal distance apart.'    Essentially, when you do anything, anywhere in an entire video, then the entire video has to be reorganized and re-compiled after you make your change.    Adding to the complexity of all this is the latest (and now common) video format called AVCHD.  AVCHD was developed so that small cameras could record and compile huge amounts of High Def data and compress all that data into very small packages.  Until this past year, there wasn't even any video editing software that could handle AVCHD files. Now, there are a number of software that will edit AVCHD. However, please understand that ALL of them face the same daunting task of uncompressing HUGE amounts of data and then reorganizing it to suit your desires.   Likewise, it is not uncommon for any dual-core, 4GB computer to crash at even the thought of such a task.


                                            I have also found that many people don't realize that "just buying an HD camera and taking HD pictures" WON'T necessarily give you an end result of H.D. pictures/video.   Yes, you must have an HD camera, and it must be set to record H.D. Next, you MUST have a very capable computer, in order to process all the data you are giving to it. Next, if you want to be able to view your pictures/video in HD., you must have a Blu-ray burner, a Blu-ray player, and, of course, an HDTV.  If you don't have all of those things, then DO NOT record your video in HD to begin with. Rather, set your camera to record in DV / Widescreen.    Your pictures will still be excellent. But, you won't be asking your computer to process data that would otherwise go to waste anyway.


                                            Reading over all this forum, it becomes quite clear that a "capable computer" is one which has a Quad-core Processor, at least 8GB of memory, a high-quality Graphics Card.   I personally also prefer Windows Vista because it has more firmware built into it to process video with.  Many people on this forum have asked if Vista 64-bit will work, and, as Steve Gresetti has explained, the answer is YES!  Simply put, if Vista-64 is running a 32 bit program, then it automatically shifts into the 32 bit mode and runs exactly as Vista 32 would.   Given that, I would strongly recommend that you get and use Vista-64 in that you'll have what you need as more and more software (including software from Adobe) becomes available in 64-bit.


                                            Last, but not least, you asked about the difference between Premier Elements 7, and Premier Pro. Quoting directly from the engineers at Adobe, I can tell you that there is NO difference in the actual 'engines' in each software.   They both process video in the same way. Where there is a difference though is in 'features' such as Titleing tools, Effects, Audio Mixing capabilties, and much more.   So, if you are looking for more features, go for Premier Pro. But, if you are looking for more and better processing, go no further than PE7.


                                            Hope that helps.


                                            • 19. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                              Paul_LS Level 4

                                              Good comment and advice Kent.

                                              • 20. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                kentRda Level 1

                                                Thanks Paul.  I recently bit the bullet and upgraded my computer to a Quad-Core i7 Processor, 8GB of memory, and Vista 64.   The difference between running PE7 on my old computer vs. my new computer is like night and day.   With the old computer, I could easily 'get ahead' of things, and work faster than the computer could keep up with. Likewise, I was (like others') plagued with delays, freezes, and crashes. On the new computer, virtually everything in PE7 works in just a blink.  No processing time when editing, no crashes, no low-memory warnings. 


                                                Getting a computer capable of processing AVCHD video is not cheap. Sadly, too many people have been given the impression (and now think) that all they have to do to enjoy HD video, is to get an HD camera, $100 video editing software, and a 50 cent standard DVD.  How wrong they are.   While "High Definition", in general, has come down in price a great deal in the last year or so, it still requires quite an investment (Money, time, and equipment) to enjoy the true benefits and results of HD.


                                                I personally shoot Underwater Video, and have been doing so for about 25 years.   Sadly, I go out on boats and see divers who have bought all sorts of HD video cameras, and, they think that just because they are taking pictures with an HD camera, that the pictures will be better (than DV video) even though they will be burning their video to a standard DVD.   As we know, they would be better off if they simply recorded their video in "DV" mode in the first place.  Then, the video editing software wouldn't be forced to crunch data that would never show up on the final 'standard' DVD anyway. Likewise, the video editing software won't be forced to pull out much of the HD data - which does affect the final result/picture that is burned on a standard DVD.


                                                So, again, for all who read this.....    If you want a true High Definition product when you are don't, you MUST burn your HD project on a Blu-Ray disk.


                                                G'day friends,


                                                • 21. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                  UK31248 Level 1

                                                  A big thank you to the last two posts which were really helpful. I already have AVCHD camcorder, HDTV a reasonable dual core computer system with a BluRay burner. I have produce a couple of HD movies on BluRay that I am very happy with. The only real issue has been performance and crashes during editing. I have also overcome much of this by following advice from this forum. I am happy to invest in better PC hardware and software for a hobby that I enjoy but until now I was not confident it would deliver the results I am looking for.  I will now upgrade to a quad core with 8 gig Ram and vista 64.


                                                  Does anyone have a view or recommendation on the graphics card and which version of vista 64, home edition or ultimate?


                                                  Many thanks



                                                  • 22. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                    kentRda Level 1

                                                    Antony, I am confident that the problems you have experienced in the past will completely go away with the new equipment you suggested that you might get.   Also, I do run Vista, 64-bit on my computer, and HIGHLY recommend it.  Even though PE7 is a 32 bit program, Vista 64 automatically shifts down to a 32 bit mode when running a 32 bit program.  However, 64 bit programs are just around the corner, and you would deeply regret NOT getting Vista 64 with your new and very capable computer.  (Getting Vista 32 would be like getting a nice, new sports car with cheap tires on it that were only capable of going 60mph / 100kph.)  You will also see many advantages in how (well) other programs also run in a 64 bit environment.   Even Internet Explorer runs better, faster and more efficiently in 64 bit! 


                                                    If you are doing anything demanding with your computer, such as video or still picture editing, it most definately pays to get the most computer that you can afford. One thing to watch out for when purchasing a new computer is that it is not pre-loaded with a ton of garbage software.   Such software often often loads itself every time you start your computer and it will bog down the operation of even the best computers.   Even many of the most common Anti-Virus/Spyware programs use a ton of memory and deeply embed themselves in your computer and programs.  Personally, I have found that some some Anti-virus programs are nearly as bad (for the operation of your computer and programs) as having a virus might be.   There are some great FREE anti-virus programs, such as AVS that protect your computer every bit as well as Norton or McAfee will, but, they don't embed themselves so deeply in all your software, they aren't such memory hogs, and they don't bog down the operation of your computer.   Another very nice, and relatively new anti-virus/anti-spyware software that is now available is Windows Live OneCare.  Again, it has all the protection and features that one could want, but you'll never even know that it's running in the background of your computer. It costs $45 a year, and can be installed on up to 3 computers.   It is also available for free to try for 30 days.   Bottom line.... Don't let the computer manufacturer[s] sell or give you a bunch of software you don't need or won't use.  And, if they do it anyway, then UNinstall it when you get your new computer.

                                                    Happy Computing!


                                                    • 23. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                      UK31248 Level 1

                                                      Kent what make and specification is the 8 Gb of memory are you running in your new system?



                                                      • 24. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                        kentRda Level 1


                                                        I got a Dell Studio XP-360 Computer with a Quad i7 Processor.   All RAM memory is pretty much the same. Just get whatever is provided with the computer.   However, one thing you should also look at getting is a Video/Graphics card that is a higher-end card and has up to 1GB of FAST memory. (Manufacturer is not as important as the actual specifications).


                                                        You should be able to use your existing Blu-ray drive with your new computer. Note: Most all new computers come equipped to operate with SATA hard drives and Optical (DVD & Blu-ray) drives.   Thus, check to make sure that your Blu-ray drive is a SATA drive.  If it is not, you will have to get an IDE to SATA converter, or, you will have to operate your Blu-ray drive in an external, USB case which are very cheap and readily available.


                                                        • 25. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                          UK31248 Level 1

                                                          I have a Dell machine right now. It's my second but I don't think I will buy another in a hurry. The performance and stability are fine but the build quality is poor. Because they are quick assembly the components just clip in rather than being firmly screwed in and I get a lot of annoying vibrations. I'm looking at a machine from a local supplier that I have dealt with for years for components. I have built a few systems but I think I will get them to put it together. I plan to get a build similar to the machine on this link but with more RAM and maybe a Video Card upgrade. They will install my existing BluRay burner which is SATA. The motherboard will take up to  6 x DIMM, Max. 24 GB, DDR3 2000(O.C.)*/1866(O.C.)*/1800(O.C.) */1600(O.C.)/1333/1066 Non-ECC,Un-buffered Memory hence my question about memory spec. The build I'm looking at is using 1333 Mhz is the faster stuff worth getting? I don't know.





                                                          • 26. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                            kentRda Level 1


                                                            I looked at the machine you are looking at and it looks like an excellent choice.  It is almost identical, in build to the Dell I just got ( see: http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspz/desktop-studio-xps-435?c=us&cs=19 &l=en&ref=dthp&s=dhs  )

                                                            Like you, I had a previous Dell machine and I was unhappy with it's build; especially with the fact that I couldn't add to it or upgrade it.   This new Dell Studio XPS machine is entirely different. Not only does it come loaded with super-fast and good hardware(without buying peripheral junk software), but it has a TON of room to add things with and upgrade with.   It's a brand new design by Dell.


                                                            Now, on the machine, or any machine you're looking at, be careful about one thing:  8GB of cache does NOT mean 8 GB of RAM memory. Cache is quite a LOT different then RAM.   Thus, when you get your new machine, make sure that you order a MINIMUM of 8GB of RAM with it.   Otherwise, even though you'll have a super-good processor, your processor won't be able to work at it's best if you don't give it enough RAM.  (The Dell Studio XPS can actually take AND USE up to 24 GB of RAM if you want to put that much into it).   I have found that my machine is as quick as I could want with the hardware I have.  (If the machine can't keep up with you as you are doing your editing and work, then you need a better machine/hardware. Otherwise, if it can keep up with you, then you're set!


                                                            You might want to compare the specs and prices on the machine you're looking at verses the new Dell Studio XPS.  I paid around $1600US for mine. (without a monitor, of course.)


                                                            • 27. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                              UK31248 Level 1

                                                              Thanks Kent thats useful information. The link you sent doesn't exist anymore according to Dell so I couldn't check out exactly what you have. Which i7 processor have you got 2.66 or 2.93 ? and how much memory on your video card?  Also do you have 2 or 3 channel RAM and does it make much difference anyway?

                                                              • 28. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                                Kodebuster Level 3

                                                                Kent, I just took delivery on my Intel i7core from HP.


                                                                It's loaded to the gills and the speed of this thing is amazing.


                                                                It blows away my old setup (Q6600 Quad @ 2.44 w/ 3 gig and Vista-32).


                                                                If anyone wants a screamer, consider these specs when shoppinng:


                                                                HP Model m9600t:

                                                                i7core 940 @ 3.0 ghz ~ 12 meg DDR3-1066 (6x2048).

                                                                1 TB RAID 0  (2x500 gig Sata) Performance stripping across both drives.

                                                                1 TB 7200 rpm HP Personal Media Drive (USB with drive slot bay built into the tower).

                                                                1 gig Nvidia GeForce 9800 (2 DVI, HDMI).

                                                                Hauppage TV Tuner, Dual Format ATSC-NTSC w/PVR, and Remote.

                                                                Premium Wireless-N Lan Card ((Send/Rec over 2 channels, very fast).

                                                                15-in One Memory Cardreader, 4 USB Ports, 2 1394 Ports, and 2 eSata ports.

                                                                400 watt Power Supply (with a very, very quiet fan).

                                                                Bluray Writer with Lightscribe.

                                                                16x DVD-ROM.



                                                                The system is a little blown out hardware wise, but I wanted to do it right, and get something that would last for at least five (5) years.


                                                                I am very, very, very impressed with the speed of this setup, it runs like a bandit (and PE7 plays nice with Vista64)...

                                                                • 29. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                                  kentRda Level 1


                                                                  Like a number of others, including myself, you have learned, and experienced the advantages of having a very capable computer, in order to edit AVCHD video.  A very large percentage of the problems seen and experienced on this forum could be alleviated if the people had better computers.   As I have said in other posts.... While HD cameras may be relatively cheap these days, one should be aware that, if you want to edit, and produce an HD video, an investment in time and money and equipment is needed.   If you don't have a Blu-ray burner and player, then don't bother taking, or editing HD video. Rather, set your HD camera into the DV mode and save you, your computer, and your videos a lot of trouble.

                                                                  • 30. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                                    kentRda Level 1

                                                                    Antony, I got a 2.66 Quad i7 Processor, and it screams.  The 2.93 is more than is needed unless someone is running sophisticated CAD programs, etc. Two or Three channel RAM doesn't seems to make as much difference as the AMOUNT of RAM.   I, and others recommend (if possible) at least 8GB of RAM for processing today's video with.   I honestly recommend using Windows Vista as it allocates and makes more efficient use of RAM than XP did; particularly when you have higher amounts of RAM.  Vista also processes video much better than XP did simply because a lot more research and development was put it to it (for working with video) than was the case with XP.  And, as I said previously, I wouldn't get a new computer unless it has a 64 bit operating system on it.   While you might not need it for 'today's' software, you  definately will need it for 'tomorrow's' software.  And, anyone who will be processing/editing video (today and tomorrow) should definately equip their computer with a 64-bit O.S., if their computer will handle it.   If their computer can't handle it, then it is most likely that their computer also won't be able to handle video processing very well.

                                                                    • 31. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                                      UK31248 Level 1

                                                                      Sorry for more questions but I need to get the spec of my new PC right. The system I am looking at is based on an Asus P6T SE motherboard which has had good reviews has a full range of I/O features but does not support SLI so can only take a single GPU. I am planning to uses an ATI Radeon HD4870 1GB GDDR5 PCI Express which should get the job done. The rest of the spec is Intel i7 920 2.66GHz  and 12Gb of 1333Mhz RAM.   Does anyone dissagree ?



                                                                      • 32. Re: PRE7 critical lack of resources crash
                                                                        kentRda Level 1


                                                                        That computer will fly! Good processor, good amount of RAM, great graphics card.   I'm sure you'll be very happy; particularly with the way it works with PE7.


                                                                        G'day Mate.