29 Replies Latest reply on May 4, 2009 9:46 AM by Teri White

    Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?

    Teri White Level 1

      We are looking at implementing Ultraseek as an add-on search engine for our webhelp library.  I know that there are better search engines!...but we're stuck with it...so to make it work best we need to add 'keywords' to our topics.  Equivalent of Index terms, but stored in the meta tag code for each topic.

       

      Ultraseek can search "keywords" and the code they give for it is:

       

      <meta name="keywords" content="[words]>

       

      So I added <meta name="keywords" content=teri> at the end of the meta tag block for a topic.  RH moved it to near the top and changed it to:

       

      <meta name=keywords content=teri>

       

      ok, stripped out the quotes, not sure what that does...but when I complied this line was not in the output .htm file, it had been remomved.

       

      Is there a way to get a meta tag to survive the compiling process?  This is a very important issue for us.  THANK YOU to whomever can help us!

        • 1. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
          MergeThis Level 4

          You might have to do what we did: run your search engine against your source files instead of the output, then copy over the applicable search files.

           

          We were testing Zoom Search and wanted to use Zoom's proprietary STOP and RESTART tags to "hide" some navigation from search and to eliminate the inclusion of each H1 in the "context description" on the results page. However, RH (X5) dropped those tags from the output.

           

          Indexing with Zoom in this manner (in our merged project) created other issues:

          • I had to use FAR to clean up things like changing the folder name from projects to mergedProjects.
          • If  we deleted a file in the source without also removing it from the output, we'd have broken links from the results page.

           

          All in all, it's been working pretty well. We've also converted the help for our newest product version to RH 8, which doesn't drop the Zoom tags (I had submitted a wish list request prior to the RH 8 release).

           

          You might want to see if the Ultraseek folks can give you a workaround, as well as submitting your own wish list request to RH.

           

           

          Good luck,

          Leon

          • 2. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
            Teri White Level 1

            Leon, thank you!

             

            Do you know if RH8 would keep the metatag for keywords?  Maybe we just need to upgrade...?

             

            Searching against the source files wouldn't work as they are two very separate locations and the link back to the results would take them out of webhelp.

             

            Thanks for taking the time to reply.  I'm hoping Adobe will chime in and key us a workaround too.  Ultraseek doesn't seem to have one.

            • 3. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
              tuls.garg Level 2

              Hi Teri,

               

              RH 8 does keep all your keyword meta tags in the output files as well. So if you add something like <meta name="keywords" content="teri" /> in source htm file, it will be there in the output htm file as well.

               

              On a side note, you might be interested in trying out the new enhanced search for webhelp in RH 8. It has support for search keyword where you can add keywords to topics and they are included in the search results. You can also control the topic ranking in the search results using these keywords.

               

              Tulika.

              RoboHelp Dev Team.

              Adobe.

              • 4. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                Teri White Level 1

                Good morning and thank you!

                 

                Is it possible to try out a demonstration copy of RH8 to see the effects of this and show it to other people? 

                 

                We have over 30 licenses for RH currently - what is the upgrade price for a group of this size?

                 

                Please advise, this could certainly be a better way to go than the path we are considering!

                • 5. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                  tuls.garg Level 2

                  Hi Teri,

                   

                  You can try out RoboHelp 8 trial. You can visit RoboHelp 8 page at http://www.adobe.com/products/robohelp. This page has the information about the upgarde price and also a link to download the trial.

                   

                  Tulika.

                  • 6. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                    RoboWizard Level 4

                    Hi Teri

                     

                    I sent a few offline messages to you and didn't hear anything. Thought that was unusual. Did you see them? (Perhaps check your Spam folder?)

                     

                    Cheers... Rick

                    • 7. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                      Teri White Level 1

                      Thank you again!

                       

                      I've downloaded a copy of the software.  A very important question please:

                       

                      1.  Can I run this on the same PC as V7 without problems?  I realize I have to use two completely different sets of projects and I can't go 'backwards' from 8 to 7

                       

                      Are there any 'shared' files that I'm going to alter by installing the trial version and NOT upgrading to V8?

                      • 8. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                        Teri White Level 1

                        I have downloaded and installed the trial version of RH8.  My question now is where can I put these new 'keywords' that it supports for search?  I don't see any new tabs on the Topic Properties box.  Please advise.  Thanks!

                        • 10. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                          Teri White Level 1

                          Without a doubt...you are amazing, wonderful, special, gifted, talented, and most of all HELPFUL!!!! 

                           

                          Thank you

                          • 11. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                            Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                            Change your glasses.

                             

                            Capture1.jpg

                             


                            See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                            • 12. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                              Teri White Level 1

                              Thanks Peter...Rick volunteered that too...I'm in business!  Thank you!

                              • 13. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                Teri White Level 1

                                Can you please explain the logic behind the 'ranking' in search results in RH8?  Is there a weighting system that we can affect?  Thanks!

                                • 14. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                  vivek_k-GfmzA1 Level 1

                                  You can define a keyword multiple times for a topic to increase its weight in the search ranking.

                                   

                                  vivek.

                                  • 15. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                    Teri White Level 1

                                    Thanks!  That sounds like something to play with.

                                    • 16. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                      Teri White Level 1

                                      I'm trying to get a specific file - the "CATS menu" to be the first among 35 returned results.  I've added cats as a keyword 5 times, plus it is in the title of the topic.  However, it remains number 14 on the list of returned results.

                                       

                                      The keywords should give it far more matches than any other file.  Any clue why it remains #14?

                                      • 17. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                        Teri White Level 1

                                        It appears that if the 'keyword' is a match for a word already in the Heading1 and body then they keyword has no affect on the ranking.  For this CATS menu I added "cats" as many times in keyword as the field would allow.  Its in the Heading1 of the file.  However, it continues to be ranked #14 which is where it falls alphabetically for all files with CATS in the title.  The #1 results has the word CATS in it 3 times.  But its title starts with "A".

                                         

                                        Since the keyword is the same its not appearing to make any difference.  I've tried it with commas separating the words and just spaces.

                                         

                                        Is there another way to affect the ranking of Search Results so that you can get a menu for a common subject to appear first?

                                        • 18. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                          Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                                          Maybe the problem is you are not using the correct separator between each instance of the keyword. The online help does not seem to state what the separator should be so I cannot help you on that.

                                           

                                          Try comma, colon and semi colon. Try surrounding each keyword with quotes.

                                           

                                          If you figure it out, please let us know. Does anyone know please?

                                           


                                          See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                                          • 19. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                            Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                                            I understand the separator depends on the language but for English space or comma are OK.

                                             


                                            See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                                            • 20. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                              Teri White Level 1

                                              Good morning Peter!

                                               

                                              I didn't try the 'quotes' but I did try spaces and commas.

                                               

                                              My problem is this:  apparently any topic with your search word in the Heading1 is automatically ranked a "1" regardless of how many more times the search word might be in the topic or Keywords.  And if you have multiple "ranked 1" topics, RH simply alphabetizes them for the search results.

                                               

                                              Since I have 37 topics with CATS in the Heading1 it alphabetizes that list...and the CATS Menu is alphabetized with the 'm' group since CATS is all the same.  That makes it 14 on the list.  I want it first!

                                               

                                              It doesn't matter how many times I list CATS in Keywords...though I didn't put them in Quotes, I'll try that tonight when I get back from my meet.

                                               

                                              The only way I could change the order of the results was to RENAME my menu to "CATS CATS Menu" and then it moved to the 'c' spot and that made it #3. 

                                               

                                              I was hoping that the ranking was based on several items and not just one thing, and that I could then influence the results.  That does not appear to be the case.  The #1 returned topic is CATS Alpha Index ("a" group) and has the word 3 times.  The #2 ranked topic is a "b" group and has it 2 times.  The next one is a "d" group and has it 15 times...clearly the most...doesn't matter.

                                               

                                              Any help in affecting the order when you have multiple topics with the search word in the Heading1 is greatly appreciated!  Anyone know??

                                              • 21. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                                Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                                                Hate to say this but if you want something in a specific order, I think we both know the word Rick will be screaming out is Index.

                                                 

                                                I'm also puzzled as you were talking about using Ultraseek but are now querying RoboHelp's search. Is it that Ultraseek is for your current RH7 licences and you are looking at RH's improved search in RH8?

                                                 


                                                See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                                                • 22. Fun and games with search ranking
                                                  RoboWizard Level 4

                                                  Chanting and waving a large sign on a stick here in Missouri...

                                                   

                                                  Inn-Dexx! Inn-Dexx! Inn-Dexx!

                                                   

                                                  Following this thread, I've been experimenting with the Search Ranking. Interesting conclusions. At least from what I'm seeing.

                                                   

                                                  I created a project with 9 topics. Inserted identical content in all topics to test with. Added an unusual word in the text of each topic. Then searched. Topic ranking was alphabetical. I then repeated the word a few times in one of the topics. Genned and tested again. Good! Topic was ranked first. Then again, I sort of expected that to happen. No surprises there.

                                                   

                                                  Took a different topic and inserted the word in a heading. Generate and test. Poof! The new topic floated to the top of rankings. I found this odd, as it trumped the topic with the terms in multiple places. So it would seem a search term occurring in a heading trumps multiple occurrences of basic topic text. (mine was a heading 3, so it doesn't seem to matter which heading level it is)

                                                   

                                                  Then I changed a topic title to include the term. Poof! That one suddenly trumped them all.

                                                   

                                                  I also tested by inserting the term in the Keyword field. By the way, it doesn't seem to matter if you separate keywords using spaces or commas. Didn't try semicolons. The field seems about as flexible as a gooseneck light!

                                                   

                                                  The weird part about all this was that when testing, at one point RoboHelp WebHelp suddenly decided that it couldn't find the term in ANY topics. Then it began finding it in perhaps two of the nine. So I found it to be a very mixed bag during the experiments.

                                                   

                                                  Cheers... Rick

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  • 23. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                                    Veteditor

                                                    Teri,

                                                    This is just a hunch:

                                                    Try to "hide" an alphabetical character in the type before the Header 1 (i.e. turn the letter the same color as the background). Therefore, if you wanted something like "Cats Menu" to be the first topic in the TOC, make your Header 1 say "aCats Menu" only change the "a" to your background color (or white) and it shouldn't actually show up on the page.

                                                     

                                                    Your second topic will then be "bCats Alpha Index" but hide the "b."

                                                     

                                                    I'm hoping this will work. Any comments?

                                                     

                                                    Helen Schmidling

                                                    Education Editor

                                                    Banfield, The Pet Hospital

                                                    • 24. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                                      tuls.garg Level 2

                                                      Hi,

                                                       

                                                      Let me give a little detail on how ranking of search results happen in RoboHelp 8.

                                                       

                                                      Weightage given to a word in a topic takes care of these context (in same order): Topic title, Topic Keywords, H1, H2, H3, H4, H5, H6
                                                      For example,

                                                      • a topic with word 'Topic' in title will be ranked higher than a topic with word 'Topic' in keyword.
                                                      • a topic with word 'Topic' in H1 tag will be ranked higher than a topic with work 'Topic' in H2 tag.
                                                      • Increasing the frequency of a word in as keyword will not help as it will be considered only once.
                                                      • Additionally each occurrence of a word in topic is summed to calculate overall weightage of a word in a topic. Hence frequency of the word in topic determine rank of topic in search result.
                                                      • The separator for keywords is space. You can associate multiple keywords with a topic by separating them with space.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Tulika.

                                                      RoboHelp Dev Team.

                                                      Adobe.

                                                      • 25. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                                        Teri White Level 1

                                                        Thank you for your response.

                                                         

                                                        If the word that you're searching for appears in the title of 14 topics, is there any way to make one of those topics appear 1st in the ranked results?  RH appears to be treating them all equal, regardless of how many times the searched for term might appear in sub headings or the body of each topic.

                                                         

                                                        When RH has multiple topics with the searched for word in the title, it alphabetizes them based on the title.  Can I affect that listing when all 14 topics have the word in the title itself?

                                                         

                                                        Thank you.

                                                        • 26. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                                          Teri White Level 1

                                                          Peter, thank you for your response...yes Rick is 'screaming Index' and I understand.  I love the Index!  But many people want to use Search and have it solve all problems...sigh.  Since RH7 doesn't allow Keywords and brought back just a list of topics with no ranking we started looking at Ultraseek.  We did not realize that RH8 offered enhanced searching abilities. 

                                                           

                                                          They appear to be somewhat equal in pros & cons though RH's "keywords" is much simpler to use than inserting a keyword meta tag for Ultraseek.

                                                           

                                                          If I could just affect RH's alphabetical sorting of all topics with the 'found' term in the title I would have this done!  I'm not having any luck with that, but will try hidden characters as Helen suggested and see what happens.

                                                           

                                                          Thanks!

                                                          • 27. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                                            Teri White Level 1

                                                            Helen, you're a genius! 

                                                             

                                                            That did affect the search results and I now have my "aCATS menu" first.

                                                             

                                                            Unfortunately the character displays in search results in the title.  It's the Title that affects the alphabetical order - not the Heading1 text.  I don't know how to 'hide' a character in the title itself.  ??

                                                             

                                                            I'm going to play with additional spaces and see if that helps.  Unfortunately a leading space seems to be automatically deleted by RH - that seemed like a really quick fix!  But...it doesn't work.

                                                             

                                                            Further suggestions on hiding a character in the line??

                                                            • 28. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                                              Teri White Level 1

                                                              Helen...the magical "hidden character" is a space.  Inside the title, not the leading character.  If I add an extra space I can force the Menu to the top - yippee!!!

                                                               

                                                              I added the space to the menu and to a "u" name and got them both to the top.

                                                               

                                                              This appears to be 'the solution'.  Thank you Helen for suggesting hidden characters...the perfect hidden one is one you can't see to begin with!

                                                               

                                                              Thanks to all who suggested solutions and tried options.  I would love to see a checkbox below the 'exclude from search' that says "weigh this extra" or something like that...but...appears that we can run with this.

                                                               

                                                              Take care & have a GREAT day.  This forum is an absolute god-send!!!  Thank you ALL for helping people like me who depend on you.  :-)

                                                              • 29. Re: Will RH keep a meta tag for "keywords" in webhelp?
                                                                Teri White Level 1

                                                                I've been asked to give screen shots of the 'solution' and the results.  So...here goes!

                                                                 

                                                                The altered titles appear like this in the Project Manager:

                                                                file title names.png

                                                                 

                                                                The search results will then have these two topics at the top, and the Menu file before the Updating file since M comes before U.

                                                                 

                                                                results.png

                                                                It appears to work well.