1 2 Previous Next 42 Replies Latest reply on Jun 14, 2009 1:49 PM by the_wine_snob

    FLV Import Bug

    webmaster@tacomacc.edu

      We use Adobe Live Media Encoder 3 for streaming live events. Then we try to edit the FLV files from the recordings and the video and audio tracks are always out of sync on those when importing them into Adobe Premiere CS4.

       

      Do you know if there is anything that can be done to fix that?

       

      The FLV files play fine in Adobe Media Player.

        • 1. Re: FLV Import Bug
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          Premiere typically works better with camera formats.  You may look at recording your events that way and editing that media, rather than a compressed final delivery format.  Another option may be to use Flash.  It's purpose is to work with Flash media, though I can't say how well it will suite your editing purposes.

          • 2. Re: FLV Import Bug
            webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

             

            Hi Jim,

             

            We really loved the advertised "Import FLV" feature in Adobe Premiere CS4, and that's one of the main reason we got it.

             

            It greatly simplifies our workflow. We don't have to record to tape and we don't have to import from tape that way. We just pick up the FLV file saved from Adobe Live Media Encoder and crop it. However, most of the time it doesn't work because the audio and video tracks are badly out of sync, and sometimes some of the audio track is completely gone.

             

            Flash itself cannot edit FLV files at all. It just doesn't do it that I know of.

             

            Our FLV files are over an hour long, so we crop them up and deploy them to our Flash Media Server 3.5. However, due to the Premiere CS4 bug we simply cannot crop them, which needs to be addressed by Adobe. If the "Import FLV" feature is offered, it needs to also be supported, and it needs to work properly.

            • 3. Re: FLV Import Bug
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              We really loved the advertised "Import FLV" feature in Adobe Premiere CS4

               


              I am not familiar with that advertisement.  I must say it surprises me a little, because FLV has long been a poor source format for editing.  It's purpose is final delivery.

               

              Looking over the supported video formats page for CS4, I did not see FLV specifically mentioned.  Do you recall where you saw the advertisement?

               

              http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/supportedformats.html

              • 4. Re: FLV Import Bug
                webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                Jim,

                 

                I am afraid that you are wrong. Follow the link below about supported fromats in Adobe Premiere CS4:

                http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PremierePro/4.0/WS01FCC81E-8CF6-437a-AAD7-A2D8F9175BF0a.html

                 

                Please consider contacting the appropriate engineers to correct the buggy "Import FLV" behavior.

                 

                Supported video and animation file formats

                • 3GP (QuickTime movie)

                • ASF (Netshow, Windows only)

                • AVI (DV-AVI, Microsoft AVI Type 1 and Type 2)

                • DLX (Sony VDU File Format Importer, Windows only)

                • DV (DV Stream, a QuickTime format)

                • FLV/F4V

                • GIF (Animated GIF)

                • M1V (MPEG-1 Video File)

                • M2T (Sony HDV)

                • M2TS (Blu-ray BDAV MPEG-2 Transport Stream, AVCHD)

                • M4V (MPEG-4 Video File)

                • MOV (QuickTime; in Windows, requires QuickTime player)

                • MP4 (XDCAM EX)

                • MPEG, MPE, MPG (MPEG-1, MPEG-2), M2V (DVD-compliant MPEG-2)

                • MTS (AVCHD)

                • MXF (Media eXchange Format; Panasonic DV, Panasonic P2, DVCPRO, DVCPRO 50, DVCPRO HD, Sony XDCAM HD.)

                • SWF

                • WMV (Windows Media Video, Windows only)

                • 5. Re: FLV Import Bug
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  Ah.  You got yours from the Help file, I got mine form the web site.  I can see the confusion.

                   

                  All I can say is that reports from users in these forums (and my own experience) somewhat belie the Help file documentation, and seem to be much more in line with the web site link I provided.  Maybe it is a bug, I don't know.  But past experience tells me that the Help link is just waaaay off base with the formats Premiere will edit, especially when I see things listed like Type 1 AVI files, which Prmeiere hasn't played nice with for three versions now even for editing, not just for previewing.  Divx as well.  Even those with the codec properly installed regularly report that the format just doesn't work right.

                   

                  My own educated guess is that whoever wrote the Help file just doesn't have the correct data, whereas I know at least one programmer had a hand in making sure the web link I provided was accurate.

                   

                  At this point, I would still recommend recording using pro level cameras, and using that as your source media.

                  • 6. Re: FLV Import Bug
                    Thrill Media Level 2

                    WOW!  I am really surprised to see that list as "import" files.  Someone didn't know what they were doing when they posted that list. 95% of those listed are delivery formats and not meant for editing.  I mean who has ever edited an animated gif file in a video editor?!?

                     

                    I am sorry for your confusion but PP is not the solution for FLV editing.

                     

                    "Please consider contacting the appropriate engineers to correct the buggy "Import FLV" behavior."  In all fairness, Jim is a user here like the rest of us and it is not his responsibility to report, I am sure somone knows the bug list/ feture request page for PP.  Maybe they will chime in.

                     

                    Good luck with your edits but if it was me I would convert the file to something more edit friendly or pick an editor better suited to that purpose.  Sorry, I know it is not what you want to hear.

                    • 7. Re: FLV Import Bug
                      webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                      The problem is that we only recorded the video to FLV. We don't have it on tape. If we can't edit the FLV, we cannot post it online at all.

                       

                      The only workaround is to force FLVPlayback to seek to and start playing at the moment when the event starts in the FLV file but then folks could rewind it back and see all the event setup work that was included in the FLV, which we don't want them to see. I guess I could only put in a play and a pause button in the FLVPLayback skin which would make it impossible for users to rewind the video.

                       

                      However, I am calling out Adobe on this issue. Adobe stated that Adobe can import FLV for editing, so now Adobe should follow up on that and make it work properly. Anything short of that is an unfair and predatory business practice.

                      • 8. Re: FLV Import Bug
                        webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                        I was under the impression that Jim works for Adobe. I need to contact someone at Adobe to get this fixed ASAP. These forums are on the Adobe web site, so someone from Adobe should be monitoring them, I would think.

                         

                        I think that it is only fair for Adobe to fix the Adobe Premiere FLV import bug ASAP.

                        • 9. Re: FLV Import Bug
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          This is a USER TO USER forum. Adobe presence here is negligent. Contact them directly if you want their attention.

                          • 10. Re: FLV Import Bug
                            Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            I do not think its a bug because i can import and edit flv just fine.

                            • 11. Re: FLV Import Bug
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              I think that it is only fair for Adobe to fix the Adobe Premiere FLV import bug ASAP.

                               

                              That just isn't very likely to happen, though.  Adobe doesn't do much of anything ASAP, at least not regarding Premiere.  Took them three years to support DVCPRO HD, which actually is a standard camera format that should be supported.

                               

                              Your best bet here is to record future events with a real video camera.  For the current media, try another program, something that will handle it properly.  VideoHelp.com is a great resource for that kind of thing.

                              • 12. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                Thrill Media Level 2

                                Well, maybe there will be a "fix" in the next update.  I did try to load an flv in the timeline and was able to play/edit it on my machine.  I would not have ever thought to do that.

                                 

                                Again, if you are in a bind I would recommend bringing it into AE and saving it out as an uncompressed or DV file for editing until you can figure a different solution out.  This will at least allow you to deliver on time for now.

                                • 13. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                  webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                  I don't have it in uncompressed format. I only have it in FLV format. It was recorded by Adobe Flash Media Encoder 3.0 and streamed in real time over Flash Media Server 3.5.

                                   

                                  The FLV plays fine in Adobe Media Player but when I import it in Premiere, video and audio are out of sync, and half of the audio is silent. Very bizarre.

                                   

                                  I never had this problem with Windows Media Services and editing the WMV files...

                                  • 14. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                    webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                    Ann,

                                     

                                    How about I send you a link to download my FLV and see if it can import in sync and with no audio loss in your copy of Premiere CS4?

                                    • 15. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                                      I don't see the point of trying to edit your FLVs in Premiere--even if you successfully import and edit your FLVs (I'll also mention that I am able to do this), you'll have to recompress on export, which could result in some less-than-stellar output.

                                       

                                      You could check out an AIR app called RichFLV that allows you to edit FLV files without re-encoding; in fact, there are a lot of users of the app who do precisely what you're requesting. I've only played with it briefly, but it seemed to work just fine.

                                       

                                      I would suggest an alternate workflow, however, that involved a dual-system of recording. If possible, look into splitting the video stream at the head end to send one stream into the LME for immediate broadcast, and then a second stream into something like OnLocation--it comes with Premiere Pro. From there, you could take the more edit-friendly file generated by OnLocation into PPro, and hack it up as needed, and then export through the Adobe Media Encoder to a final FLV destination file. This, in my mind, gives you the best of both worlds--a little more setup, but a lot less aggravation.

                                      • 16. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                        Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        We could give it a try.

                                        • 17. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Just as a test, I Imported a half-dozen FLV's into PrPro2 - something that I had never done, because I've never attempted to edit any, but only Export for streaming. I have to report that all Imported perfectly and that the Audio was in very good, if not perfect sync. Now, each of these was a much smaller frame size, than my DVD Project's Presets, so when Scaled up to 720x480 looked pretty bleak. Still, I'm sure that your footage would be sized up from what I had to work with. These also played fine, though PrPro indicated that they needed to be rendered. Even with a frame-rate of ~25-26 fps, they played pretty smoothly in an NTSC 29.97fps Project. Probably could have been better with proper NTSC frame-rate or Interpret Footage. Did not try that in the tests.

                                           

                                          Based on this little test, I'd suggest that you look to your Capture process to see if there is something amiss there. Do not know Adobe Live Media Encoder, so I cannot even suggest where to start looking.

                                           

                                          I know that this does not help you in the least, except to say that with my test FLV's everything worked fine. I just learned something new, thanks to your thread.

                                           

                                          BTW, is your sync issue constant, or does it drift? Regardless, nothing will help where you have the Audio drop-outs.

                                           

                                          Good luck on getting this sorted out, and thanks for the new knowledge.

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8


                                            I just tried two Flash files on my system - neither would even import.

                                            • 19. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                              webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                              Ann,

                                               

                                              OK, here is the link to the file for you to download:

                                              http://www.tacomacc.edu/flvtest/concert.flv

                                               

                                              The file is 424 MB.

                                               

                                              Let me know if it imports OK for you.

                                              • 20. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                                Hunt,

                                                 

                                                Try importing my FLV. Here is the link to it:

                                                http://www.tacomacc.edu/flvtest/concert.flv

                                                 

                                                It is 424 MB.

                                                • 21. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                  webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                                  Jim,

                                                   

                                                  You have to have Premiere Pro CS4. CS3 and earlier cannot import FLV.

                                                   

                                                  If you have CS4, try importing my file and see if it is out of sync for you.

                                                   

                                                  Here is the link to it:

                                                  http://www.tacomacc.edu/flvtest/concert.flv

                                                   

                                                  It is 424 MB.

                                                  • 22. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                    webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                                    Colin,

                                                     

                                                    Thanks for the tip about RichFLV. I tried it and it seemed to work but when I attempted to save it, it froze up on me. I will try it again.

                                                     

                                                    How would I split the video stream per your suggestion? Adobe Flash Live Media Encoder 3 takes over the video and audio feeds during streaming, so they are no longer available to other applications to use.

                                                    • 23. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                      Well, I guess it depends on what your setup outside of the computer is. I mean, is the source a live camera or combination of cameras, or something else? Once we have that, we can go somewhere

                                                      • 24. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                        webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                                        Colin,

                                                         

                                                        Here is the setup:

                                                         

                                                        Canon Vixia HV30 in SD 720x480 (no way to make Windows recognize live HD format) connects via firewire cable to a Windows Vista laptop. The laptop runs Adobe Flash Live Media Encoder 3, which uses the Canon Vixia HV30 as the video and audio sources, and then it streams live to an Adobe Flash Media Interactive Server 3.5, while in the meantime it saves a copy of the stream to the local hard drive in FLV format.

                                                         

                                                        So, the video and audio source gets taken by Adobe Flash Live Media Encoder 3, and there is no stream for OnLocation to grab on to.

                                                        • 25. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                          Got it. Hmm... interesting. In the good ol' days of analog, you could run DAs, but this is a bit more of a challenge. I just tried Googling for "firewire distribution amplifier" and there are some hits, but they're pretty spendy--if they're still made.

                                                           

                                                          No matter what you do, I think you're going to need two computers, if you want to record live. The laptop could take the Firewire stream, and then you'd need a desktop box setup with something like a Blackmagic Designs Intensity card. You could, in theory, record using the HDMI output of the camera into PPro with the Intensity. Now, I'm assuming that the camera will stream out the FW and the HDMI at the same time--if not, that goes out the window.

                                                           

                                                          Another option would be to get some sort of A/D convertor that would take the analog outs of the camera (presumably composite but possibly S-video) and feed that to LME--I've played around with this same thing on my video card, which has analog ins, into LME. Then, you could send the FW output to OnLocation or PPro.

                                                           

                                                          The lo-fi option, depending on the length of your recordings, is to just record in-camera to miniDV. You'll have an archive, and you'll be able to capture and edit that source if needed. Certainly not as sexy as some of the other options, but certainly workable.

                                                           

                                                          Trying to think of some more... hmmm... I like a good Monday puzzle.

                                                           

                                                          ADDENDUM: Just found this Datavideo device, the VP-332. The specs say that it can take the output of one DV device and feed it to all 5 outputs. That could, hypothetically, solve the problem you're having, though you'd still need a second computer to record the DV signal. I don't think it's possible to make one computer record two simultaneous streams from one source, but that's just conjecture.

                                                          • 26. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                            webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                                            Colin,

                                                             

                                                            Yeah, saving to miniDV tapes as backup has been what we've been doing. However, I was so sonfident that the FLV editing would work that we overwrote several of the miniDV tapes and we now only have the FLVs left.

                                                             

                                                            Have you ever combined multiple camcorders into one stream in order to get multiple angles during a live event?

                                                             

                                                            We've been pondering doing that but we probably need some tool that can switch which camera is the active one.

                                                            • 27. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                              Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                              Sure, but you'll need a switcher, or a computer with an add-on card and appropriate software as to make switching possible. For instance, Panasonic makes stand-alone switching consoles, or you could get something like a Newtek Tricaster (sort of a Toaster redux), or the Blackmagic Intensity on a MacPro allows for two-camera HDMI switching with a piece of software they ship. Now, that's if you need it broadcast live. For most of us here, we'll record independently to multiple cameras and then use the multicamera feature in PPro for editing. Not as speedy as live punching, but it gives you much more flexibility.

                                                              • 28. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                Have you ever combined multiple camcorders into one stream in order to get multiple angles during a live event?

                                                                 

                                                                Yes, using an MX-50 like Colin suggests.  But each camera was also iso-recorded, so the original could be 're-edited' if need be.  The point here is you don't use final delivery media (FLV) as source, you use source media (DV) as source.

                                                                 

                                                                And no matter how confident you are of something, just never, ever erase or reuse a DV tape.  Just don't.

                                                                • 29. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                  webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                                                  Which of the versions of the NewTek Tricaster would be sufficient for that?

                                                                  http://www.newtek.com/tricaster/compare.php

                                                                  • 30. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                    webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                                                    You mean a NewTek Tricaster?

                                                                    • 31. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                      Just got the download. I should have read the "fine print" at the bottom of your message. Started the download on the laptop, which is wireless g to the DSL router upstairs. Took awhile, but you warned me - duh!

                                                                       

                                                                      Now, Imported it into an NTSC 4:3 "test" Project that I have around. Remember, this is CS2 on a 17" laptop. Import was instant, and Audio Conforming took about 45 sec. to 1 min. Played fine with only one exception - there was artifacting in the highlight area of the overhead lights' diffuser panels and in what I take to be a window, to the right of the guitar player (his left). Also, to see any lips, or hand-action on the guitar, I did use Motion>Scale (180%) to mostly fill my 4:3 frame, so this certainly did not help the Video quality any. I think that some of the artifacts would still be there in the native resolution, especially when the roadie walks into the scene early on, or the guitar player crosses over that window..

                                                                       

                                                                      I played through and did not catch any OOS issues, though when the guitarist was singing, the mic hides most of his mouth. I though that some of the guitar strokes, after about 3/4 of the way though looked slightly off, but when the guitarist is introducing the keyboard player, and strums, it looked perfect. Same for the mouth movements, that I could detect.

                                                                       

                                                                      Play seemed to be pretty smooth, and this was without Rendering.

                                                                       

                                                                      I do not know if any of this will help you, or not. I'll keep the footage on the system for a few days, so if there is anything that you want me to look at specifically, just give me a Timecode and I'll do my best. Let me know if I can help.

                                                                       

                                                                      Good luck,

                                                                       

                                                                      Hunt

                                                                      • 32. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                        Webmaster,

                                                                         

                                                                        Just wondering if you got this sorted out. I'm about to delete the test file, and wanted to know if you needed for me to try anything else with it, before I did so.

                                                                         

                                                                        Hunt

                                                                        • 33. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                          webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                                                          Hunt,

                                                                           

                                                                          Thanks for doing this for me. So you used Premiere CS2 instead of CS4 to import the FLV file? Did you use a special plugin for that? My understanding is that Premiere added the FLV import feature in CS4.

                                                                           

                                                                          If you can trim it from the beginning and end of it (the setup and takedown time) and make it available for me to download, that would be terrific but that would be too much to ask, I think.

                                                                          • 34. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                            No special anything. This is a pretty clean install of CS2 on the laptop - no CODEC "packs," or similar. I just took a chance that it would Import, and it did. Give me a little time, and I'll see what I can do for you.

                                                                             

                                                                            Hunt

                                                                            • 35. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                              The cutting is complete. I did a Desktop Project to keep the 360x240x1.0 PAR, and edited out the setup/teardown. I added 02 sec. Black Video to the Head and Tail, and did a Dip-to-Black Transition to each of these, plus a Constant Gain Audio Transition to the Audio Track.

                                                                               

                                                                              I have not Exported to any format yet. What would you like? Also, if you e-mail me (in my profile), I can FTP it to your server. Just give me the details.

                                                                               

                                                                              I'll be here today, as long as coverage of The Players Championship lasts. Then, will be around on the weekend. I'll check my e-mail with some regularity.

                                                                               

                                                                              Hunt

                                                                              • 36. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                                webmaster@tacomacc.edu Level 1

                                                                                Thanks, Hunt! I will email you with details.

                                                                                • 37. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                                  Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                  Hunt: You must have installed a plugin because i do not remember Premiere 2 importing flv.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Webmaster:  Happen to come across this post. Since the red flag have gone i missing out on several posts. I find these blue colors very confusing.

                                                                                  Downloading now. Will take about 1.5 hours. Couldn't you find a smaller file to test.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Ok imported, edited and exported a small portion of the file to flv in CS4: no issues.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                                    Ann,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I believe you are correct on this. Here is my update:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I edited the FLV footage, per Webmaster's instructions to me. This was on my laptop with CS2 (same install as my workstation). The edits went fine, BUT, when I went to Export to FLV (AME), I got instant crashes.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I decided to move the Project to my workstation, from the laptop. Same OS and version. Three hundred plus CODEC's, vs 223 on the laptop. Same installation discs for Production Studio. Guess what - PrPro 2 on the workstation would not import the FLV. No go - nothing.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I have been looking at what is different, between the two systems. At first, I thought that maybe it was PrElements 4 on the laptop. However, PE4 would not Import the file either (only PrPro 2). OK, I looked at the CODEC's and it appears that the laptop has 223 of the 339 that the workstation has - nothing more, that I can find. I looked at several other "tools," and cannot find anything that the laptop has, that the workstation does not. I'm still in the process of this research. If I can find the difference, I will be sure to post it.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Back to Webmaster's Project: I've Exported as both MPEG-2 muxed and .MOV. The MPEG-2 had a large green line on the right-hand side of the image - unusable. No Export Preset could rid the file of this. It was semi-transparent, and I'd guess about 20 pixels wide. The .MOV looks good, and sounds as good as the original. I have some comments to make to Webmaster, regarding the filming and audio on the footage, but will do that in another reply.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    You have pointed out a discrepency in my PrPro installations, but I cannot yet tell you what that discrepency is. When I track it down, I will post it. Whatever it takes to get PrPro 2 to ingest FLV needs to be shared. Whatever it is, will possiblly work with CS3 & CS4. I'm next off to do a list of all .dll's and VST's on the laptop.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    On one hand, I'm glad that I tried this on the laptop first, and not the workstation. Now, I know that it can work. I've just got to find out how. On the other, I cannot tell you the why and the how. That bothers me greatly. When I know, you shall know too.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Hunt

                                                                                     

                                                                                    PS Next, I thought that maybe Adobe Media Player was the device, as I only had it on the laptop. Installed on the workstation, but that wasn't it either.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: FLV Import Bug
                                                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                                      Update: while my research is still going on, it *appears* that it might be the inclusion of a newer Nero module on the laptop. It came with a lite version of Nero installed. This is a newer version, than the full vesrion (except for the packet-writing and indexing modules), that is installed on the workstation. I want to take this a bit deeper, before I ungrade Nero on the workstation. Because of some issues with parts of Nero, I am loathe to just install any other version of it, as what I have causes no known problems. When I have it pinned to that one difference, I'll do a full BU, Restore Point Creation, and then test it. If successful, I'll post.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Hunt

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