5 Replies Latest reply on Sep 12, 2008 4:58 PM by Newsgroup_User

    WHERE is the LAYOUT MODE Button????

    OnlineVenture
      Hi,

      I decided to download and upgrade my dreamweaver to CS3!
      and to my suprise the LAYOUT MODE button is not there! (not next to the "standard" and "expanded" buttons like in my old dreamweaver!) I tried to find a button that could add the "layout mode" button and there isn't?

      Apparently I have to get used to ALT+F6.
      Now, the big question is - WHO'S the A-HOLE that thought "Here's a great idea!!! - lets remove the 'layout mode' button from the 'standard' and 'expanded' options in the new and IMPROVED CS3" ???? ... and whos the bigger A-HOLE for allowing this idea to be implemented?
      What was the reason for removing this button??? Wheres the LOGIC??
      Does anyone agree with me?

      If i am wrong and there is a button to add the "layout mode" button - please let me know - and feel free to call me an A-HOLE for not looking properly.

      Its a small thing I am probably making large but WHY remove it?
      Its like buying a later model BMW and putting the aircon button near the headrest in the backseat? (Alt+F6)

      Strange!

        • 1. Re: WHERE is the LAYOUT MODE Button????
          Level 7
          You're going to love CS4 where the entire train wreck called Layout Mode has
          been removed.

          Layout Mode has been responsible for more posts on this forum than nearly
          any other aspect of DW (maybe except for the pop-up menus). You should not
          use it.

          Sorry....

          --
          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
          Adobe Community Expert
          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
          ==================
          http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
          ==================


          "OnlineVenture" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
          news:gaegrm$f4d$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          > Hi,
          >
          > I decided to download and upgrade my dreamweaver to CS3!
          > and to my suprise the LAYOUT MODE button is not there! (not next to the
          > "standard" and "expanded" buttons like in my old dreamweaver!) I tried to
          > find
          > a button that could add the "layout mode" button and there isn't?
          >
          > Apparently I have to get used to ALT+F6.
          > Now, the big question is - WHO'S the A-HOLE that thought "Here's a great
          > idea!!! - lets remove the 'layout mode' button from the 'standard' and
          > 'expanded' options in the new and IMPROVED CS3" ???? ... and whos the
          > bigger
          > A-HOLE for allowing this idea to be implemented?
          > What was the reason for removing this button??? Wheres the LOGIC??
          > Does anyone agree with me?
          >
          > If i am wrong and there is a button to add the "layout mode" button -
          > please
          > let me know - and feel free to call me an A-HOLE for not looking properly.
          >
          > Its a small thing I am probably making large but WHY remove it?
          > Its like buying a later model BMW and putting the aircon button near the
          > headrest in the backseat? (Alt+F6)
          >
          > Strange!
          >
          >
          >

          • 2. Re: WHERE is the LAYOUT MODE Button????
            Level 7
            > Does anyone agree with me?
            Nope

            IMO removing the Layout Mode button is like redesigning a pistol to make it
            more difficult for the user to shoot himself in the foot. (Note: That is
            precisely what you do when you use Layout mode, BTW.)
            --

            Walt


            "OnlineVenture" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
            news:gaegrm$f4d$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            > Hi,
            >
            > I decided to download and upgrade my dreamweaver to CS3!
            > and to my suprise the LAYOUT MODE button is not there! (not next to the
            > "standard" and "expanded" buttons like in my old dreamweaver!) I tried to
            > find
            > a button that could add the "layout mode" button and there isn't?
            >
            > Apparently I have to get used to ALT+F6.
            > Now, the big question is - WHO'S the A-HOLE that thought "Here's a great
            > idea!!! - lets remove the 'layout mode' button from the 'standard' and
            > 'expanded' options in the new and IMPROVED CS3" ???? ... and whos the
            > bigger
            > A-HOLE for allowing this idea to be implemented?
            > What was the reason for removing this button??? Wheres the LOGIC??
            > Does anyone agree with me?
            >
            > If i am wrong and there is a button to add the "layout mode" button -
            > please
            > let me know - and feel free to call me an A-HOLE for not looking properly.
            >
            > Its a small thing I am probably making large but WHY remove it?
            > Its like buying a later model BMW and putting the aircon button near the
            > headrest in the backseat? (Alt+F6)
            >
            > Strange!
            >
            >
            >


            • 3. Re: WHERE is the LAYOUT MODE Button????
              Level 7
              It will be a great day when Layout Mode is finally gone.
              The posts here about "Why does my page explode" and "why don't things line
              up" will diminish greatly.
              That's important because it will mean that many people won't have to
              completely re-build their sites from scratch once they see what layout mode
              did to their site in browsers with different settings than the one they use.

              The logic is they removed something that wrote terrible code, added
              rowspans, colspans and spacer gifs galore.
              For more enlightening information: http://apptools.com/rants/spans.php
              The logic is they are helping people to build better, leaner code websites
              that don't fall apart when a user increases text size.

              Great job to the smart people who chose to dump this turkey.

              Take care,
              Tim



              "Walt F. Schaefer" <walt@waltswebworx.com> wrote in message
              news:gaejci$hr9$1@forums.macromedia.com...
              >> Does anyone agree with me?
              > Nope
              >
              > IMO removing the Layout Mode button is like redesigning a pistol to make
              > it more difficult for the user to shoot himself in the foot. (Note: That
              > is precisely what you do when you use Layout mode, BTW.)
              > --
              >
              > Walt
              >
              >
              > "OnlineVenture" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
              > news:gaegrm$f4d$1@forums.macromedia.com...
              >> Hi,
              >>
              >> I decided to download and upgrade my dreamweaver to CS3!
              >> and to my suprise the LAYOUT MODE button is not there! (not next to the
              >> "standard" and "expanded" buttons like in my old dreamweaver!) I tried to
              >> find
              >> a button that could add the "layout mode" button and there isn't?
              >>
              >> Apparently I have to get used to ALT+F6.
              >> Now, the big question is - WHO'S the A-HOLE that thought "Here's a great
              >> idea!!! - lets remove the 'layout mode' button from the 'standard' and
              >> 'expanded' options in the new and IMPROVED CS3" ???? ... and whos the
              >> bigger
              >> A-HOLE for allowing this idea to be implemented?
              >> What was the reason for removing this button??? Wheres the LOGIC??
              >> Does anyone agree with me?
              >>
              >> If i am wrong and there is a button to add the "layout mode" button -
              >> please
              >> let me know - and feel free to call me an A-HOLE for not looking
              >> properly.
              >>
              >> Its a small thing I am probably making large but WHY remove it?
              >> Its like buying a later model BMW and putting the aircon button near the
              >> headrest in the backseat? (Alt+F6)
              >>
              >> Strange!
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >


              • 4. Re: WHERE is the LAYOUT MODE Button????
                OnlineVenture Level 1
                Thanks for the Posts!

                You see - I think you guys are all experts with dreamweaver - IE: you know how to write code and understand it.
                I design websites visually and never with code and I don't see any other option thats easier to use than LAYOUT MODE. So with regards to "shooting yourself in the Foot" - for me I don't think that would be the case as I have designed more than 100 websites only using LAYOUT MODE. I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I bought CS4.

                I TOTALLY understand the "bugs" (if you could call it that) using layout mode with cells and tables that sometimes throws your websites layout of place! (is this what you guys are talking about?) Very frustrating - but you would think Adobe wouldn't give up the Layout mode (CS4) but improve and fix the many problems it has.

                These days its about making things easier for the user and with someone with MUCH less knowledge about coding - like me and MANY people out there that are starting web design - the easiest way to design sites would be via LAYOUT MODE - so why not keep it and like I said, improve it!



                • 5. Re: WHERE is the LAYOUT MODE Button????
                  Level 7
                  > I TOTALLY understand the "bugs" (if you could call it that) using layout
                  > mode
                  > with cells and tables that sometimes throws your websites layout of place!
                  > (is
                  > this what you guys are talking about?) Very frustrating - but you would
                  > think
                  > Adobe wouldn't give up the Layout mode (CS4) but improve and fix the many
                  > problems it has.

                  In my opinion, there are three serious problems with Layout Mode -

                  1. Perhaps most importantly, it sits between you and *real* HTML tables,
                  and fools you into believing that concepts like "layout cell" and
                  "autostretch" really mean something. They do not. As long as you use
                  Layout Mode, you'll never learn one of the most important things for new web
                  developers - how to build solid and reliable tables.

                  2. Actually, #1 wouldn't be *so* bad, except that the code that is written
                  by Layout Mode is really poor code. For example, a layout table contains
                  MANY empty rows of cells. This can contribute to a table's instability.
                  In addition, if your initial positioning of the table's cells is a bit
                  complex,
                  Layout Mode will throw in col- and rowspans aplenty as it merges and splits
                  cells willy-nillly to achieve the pixel-perfect layout you have specified.
                  Again,
                  this is an extremely poor method for building stable tables, because it
                  allows
                  changes in one tiny cell's shape (i.e, dimensions) to ripple through the
                  rest
                  of the table, usually with unexpected and sometimes disastrous consequences.
                  This is one of the primary reasons for the final result's fragility - read
                  this -

                  http://apptools.com/rants/spans.php

                  3. The UI for Layout Mode is beyond confusing - many options that you might
                  want to use are inaccessible, e.g., inserting another table, or layer onto
                  the page.

                  I can understand the new user's desire to use this tool to make their life
                  easier,
                  but the cost is just too heavy in my opinion.

                  To make good tables, keep it simple. Put a table on the page, and begin to
                  load your content. If you would want a different table layout, instead of
                  merging or splitting cells, consider stacking tables or nesting simple
                  tables instead, respectively.

                  And above all, do not try to build the whole page with a single table!

                  Luckily, Adobe understands the problems created for the unsuspecting user
                  who falls into this trap, and has elected to remove this feature altogether
                  from the next version of DW. The time is right for you to begin working
                  with tables properly!

                  To read more about this approach, visit the DW FAQ link in my sig, and run
                  through the table tutorials.

                  > designed more than 100 websites

                  And every one of them will break unexpectedly when you resize your text in
                  the browser.

                  > the easiest way to design sites would be via LAYOUT MODE
                  > - so why not keep it and like I said, improve it!

                  Adobe are clever programmers. If they thought it could be salvaged, they
                  would have done so. Alas, to use a hypothetical Layout Mode properly, DW
                  would have to know all of the things you planned to do in that table before
                  writing a lick of code. It cannot know this, and so your tables are built
                  monolitically, to fit the layout you have (and only the layout you have) at
                  the time you build the table, not what it will be when you add in all the
                  products/services/contact forms, etc. So, it sulks in the corner and dies a
                  horrible death when it's sure to embarrass you the most.

                  > I design websites visually and never with code

                  It's unfortunate. Really.

                  --
                  Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                  Adobe Community Expert
                  (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                  ==================
                  http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                  http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                  ==================


                  "OnlineVenture" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                  news:gaeu74$sts$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                  > Thanks for the Posts!
                  >
                  > You see - I think you guys are all experts with dreamweaver - IE: you know
                  > how
                  > to write code and understand it.
                  > I design websites visually and never with code and I don't see any other
                  > option thats easier to use than LAYOUT MODE. So with regards to "shooting
                  > yourself in the Foot" - for me I don't think that would be the case as I
                  > have
                  > designed more than 100 websites only using LAYOUT MODE. I'd be shooting
                  > myself
                  > in the foot if I bought CS4.
                  >
                  > I TOTALLY understand the "bugs" (if you could call it that) using layout
                  > mode
                  > with cells and tables that sometimes throws your websites layout of place!
                  > (is
                  > this what you guys are talking about?) Very frustrating - but you would
                  > think
                  > Adobe wouldn't give up the Layout mode (CS4) but improve and fix the many
                  > problems it has.
                  >
                  > These days its about making things easier for the user and with someone
                  > with
                  > MUCH less knowledge about coding - like me and MANY people out there that
                  > are
                  > starting web design - the easiest way to design sites would be via LAYOUT
                  > MODE
                  > - so why not keep it and like I said, improve it!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >